I am looking to make a tekko-kagi wielder, but having trouble coming up with a good build idea/path to take.
I am going off a cool pic for this build, and don't know how to link it...
but its basically a catfolk looking char with a pair of tekko-kagi, in oriental monk/ninja-ish style clothing.
So far my thoughts have been....
*Brawler... making use of close weapon mastery to increase base weapon dam.
*Unchained Rogue.... dex to damage, rogue talents
*Warpriest... sacred weapon stuff and spells...
*Fighter... Straight feat build and stack the crap out of feat chains..
I will be using 2 tekko-kagi, 1 as main weapon and other as a buckler. Point of the build is around the weapons. I want to be effective and playable.
Note of the build:
*Must be Catfolk
*Must use tekko-kagi
*20 point buy, with any piazo material. (must be on AoN)
*Current game lvl is 4, but we are close to 5. Multi classing is ok, and archetype stacking is ok within reason.
Pls and Thxs for all the advice!!
Catfolk can use claw blades which might work better than tekko-kagi while keeping the image I think. They allow the use of a couple of feats like claw pounce, and some rogue talents including one which makes their sneak attack d8s - which implies unchained rogue might work for you.
There is no such thing as a universaly "optimal" (or "best") in Pathfinder. What's best always depends on what you actually want.
You've said what weapon you want to use, but not how you want to use it. A damage build? a disarming build? Something else? Is there a limit to the amount of casting you want? Some other limitation, i.e. stuff you don't like? Is any type of armor OK, or does it have to be light-/unarmored?
All the classes you mentioned, and many more, would work. Without more information about what kind of character you want to play (not just what it shall look like), we can't really help you.
Dwarftr wrote: don't know how to link it Under the new post window below a thread, there's a line that says "How to format your text" and a button that says "Show". Klick the button.
Unchained Monk is, in my opinion, the only build that uses tekko-kagi and doesn't come out too far behind.
Adherent of Ancient Osirion lets you use tekko-kagi as though they were claw blades and the Catfolk FCB for monks lets them use claw blades (and by extension, tekko-kagi) for all their monk stuff, on top of some generously scaling bonus damage.
swashbucklers who don't care for the damage can do well with tekku-kagi.
my main defult is human with the alt trait that sweep the extra feat for 2 exotic weapon proficiency which i pick katana and tekku-kagi with (as the tekku-kagi can be sued as a buckler or for disarming
Playing a Catfolk, I'd just play a Warpriest and go with a Natural Attack Build. Catfolk get Scent and 2 Claw Attacks. I'd get a Ring of Ratfangs of something for a Bite Attack and a Helm of the Mammoth Lord for a Gore Attack. I'd dip a level in White Haired Witch for a Hair Attack. So, I'd have lots of Natural Attacks and inflict Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage with them. I'd dip a level in Ranger so I could use a Wand of Strong Jaw. I'd dip a level in Living Monolith to Enlarge Person. You'll have lots of high damage attacks, good saving throws, and spells. I'd also get Scent, take Blindfighting, and carry around an Eversmoking Bottle
But, you want those Iron Claws.
I still like Warpriest. I also like Fighter. Fighters can inflict Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage with the Advanced Weapon Training Feat Focused Weapon. Fighters can use their Bravery Bonus on all Will Saves with another Advanced Training.
The Tekko Kagi are Disarming Weapons. They are Light Weapons. They give a bonus to Sundering. You can use Weapon Finesse with them. Ask your GM if you can also take the Deadly Agility Feat. Deadly Agility will give you Dex-to-Damage. The other way to get Dex-to-Damage is through 3 levels in Unchained Rogue. Unchained Rogue is also not a bad way to go for a character like this: you do Sneak Attack Damage with weapons that otherwise don't do much regular Damage. You'd need to come up with some ways to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage.
Since they are Piercing Weapons, they work with Hamatula Strike. You can wear Armor Spikes. When you have Hamatula Strike, every hit with a Piercing weapon gives you a free Grapple, and when you are wearing Armor Spikes, every successful grapple attack does extra damage.
They are Disarming weapons, and when your opponents are Disarmed, they provoke Attacks of opportunity whenever they attack you. You take Dirty Fighting or Combat Expertise then take Improved Disarm. Combat Expertise is also the prerequisite for Improved Dirty Tricks which can Blind and Deafen opponents to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage.
Since they are strapped to your forearm rather than held, you can use other weapons at the same time. You can be an archer that uses the Tekko-Kagi when your opponents close to melee. You can use Improvised Weapons. Catch Off Guard gives you proficiency in Improvised Weapons, and if your opponents are unarmed, they are Flatfooted against your Improvised Weapon Attacks. So you can Disarm your Opponents with your Tekko-Kagi, then pummel them flatfooted with chair legs, a handy brick, or whatever. I saw a build like this on the forums.
These are a bunch of ideas for any of a variety of builds, not advice for a single build. I hope you find some useful ideas.
Go To [url=https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsI14IFsBYZhni1MtwtGMrhHxPEJ]
Go To [url=https://imgur.com/gallery/LmdxWSE]
Let me know if that works.....
As for the type of build... Scott had some good suggestions.
I didnt want to use cat claws as it gave up the natural hunter bonus (+2 racial bonus to perception, stealth and survival) to get me the claw atts. I liked Sydneys suggestion of the "Adherent of Ancient Osirion" trait, but wont i still need to have my claw atts for that to work? The -2 wisdom for me kinda hurts and the monk uses wisdom for alot of abilities so that why i want looking into it to much.
I am looking for functional. I want to do decent damage (whether it be from scaling damage options to static damage) The idea of disarming sounds awesome, not so much for sundering... (my party r loot-huors, and would not like damaged gear that they might use..)
@derklord. Sry i did not specify more of what i wanted to do, or would like for the char. I don't have access to books like other members of my party so i use AoN, so i usually aviod spellcasters, and me personally dislike prepared casters... im more of a melee/skill guy. Not opposed to it, just not as accessable to me
I'm pretty sure the brawler fighter archetype (not the class) actually ends up upping the raw damage of the weapon farther than close weapon mastery. It includes a bunch of feats and some "you're not getting away' abilities.
As far as the links go, to make them work properly you also need some text after the first tag, and a [/url] after that text to make the links work properly. If you click reply to this post you'll see what I mean (you don't need to click submit post after that, just reply and then cancel if you want).
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OK, you want that skill bonus. There are monk archetypes which use charisma instead of wisdom; scaled fist works with the unchained monk. Or various of Scott's ideas could work but you need to suggest which you'd be interested in before anyone's going to flesh one out with a full build.
tekko-kagi aren't well defined enough to optimize. The answer is going to be very different depending on how your DM interprets "like a buckler". The weapon also specifies its use in the off hand, making dual wielding them fuzzy as well. And of course the adherent of ancient osirian trait lets you treat them as claw blades for the purpose of ability interactions, which is also a bundle of weird. I'm not sure what the idea there is, but a weapon that can be treated like an augmentation for natural weapons that allows them to act like a weapon, just seems like a bunch of extra steps for nothing.
I'd save yourself the headache of trying to work through the rules and just tell your DM your idea, lay out the rules concerns and ask for a plan.
They're nice for not optimizing in. Brawler's get proficiency in them for free which is free disarm for them. They can two weapon fight with one of their weapons, so their other hand may as well have a tekko-kagi unless they want a real shield which is a better option in any case where they aren't disarming.
So after my gaming session, i spoke with the DM about Tekko-kagi...
As for dual-wield since they say offhand.. is ok, he doesn't mind using them as a main weapon. As a buckler also ok.
I like the idea of a disarming build. But would also like to do a decent amount of damage so not to fall behind too much.
Should also add we are using the "ABP".... so wealth by lvl is lower than normal.
I am thinking of a Urogue/fighter, tho not sure the split and how to add dex to disarming rolls...(we are lvl 5 now) with a minimum of 3 lvls of Urogue which will prob be included right away. As for armor, would like to make use of evasion so needs to be lite until i can get mithral (then it can be a medium armor made lite by mithral)
Or straight Brawler with either the Snakebite striker or the Winding path renegade archetypes.
SO what can i do with these ideas? also if u have a disarming build suggestion (must be using the Tekko-kagi and a catfolk) pls include it so i can look it over.
Thxs
If you use a weapon for a combat maneuver, than you use the bonuses that apply to that weapon; disarming with a finessed tekko-kagi is going to be dex based.
Automatic bonus progression will make focusing on one weapon a much better long term plan, so brawler builds should be preferred. You'd need to talk to your DM about how he'd rule brawler+monk's robe, as a literal reading provides enormous benefit. The most generous reading would have your tekko-kagi doing brawler unarmed damage of a character 1 level higher.
Dwarftr wrote: As for dual-wield since they say offhand.. is ok, he doesn't mind using them as a main weapon. Based on
this FAQ, I'd presume that to be the official stance, anyway.
Dwarftr wrote: I didnt want to use cat claws as it gave up the natural hunter bonus (+2 racial bonus to perception, stealth and survival) to get me the claw atts. That's the reason? Seriously? I mean, it's your character, but this is a very weird reason. Bonuses to skills aren't that hard to come by, and a +2 isn't that much.
Dwarftr wrote: I don't have access to books like other members of my party so i use AoN, so i usually aviod spellcasters I don't get this. How is not having access to phyiscal books (or PDFs) a reason to avoid spellcasters? I'd say the opposite is the case, spellcasters are the ones where you really want to use online sources, because spells come from more sources than stuff like Rogue Talents does. I use Excel for character sheets, and I always copy the full list of spells and other selectable class features into the file.
Dwarftr wrote: not sure (...) how to add dex to disarming rolls... As ErichAD said, Disarm is one of the few combat maneuvers that use the weapon. That means the combat maneuver check to disarm is an attack roll with the weapon, so Weapon Finesse, the weapon's enchantment bonus, Weapon Focus, Weapon Training, Heroism etc. all grant a bonus to the check. That means you don't actually have to invest into disarming, since you don't need the Improved Disarm feat (thanks to the weapon not provoking, and having other means of increasing CMB).
That means abilities that add to attack and damage rolls, e.g. an Investigator's Studied Combat, are very helpful, as they improve both disarming, and regular damage.
As a combat maneuver that you can do in place of a melee attack, getting Pounce (e.g. Barbarian, Beastmorph Alchemist, Medium) is very desireable.
Sydney S. wrote: Adherent of Ancient Osirion lets you use tekko-kagi as though they were claw blades and the Catfolk FCB for monks lets them use claw blades (and by extension, tekko-kagi) for all their monk stuff, on top of some generously scaling bonus damage. Far from "all their monk stuff", sadly - most important, it doesn't work with the bonus attack from spending ki, and it also doesn't transfer the scaling unarmed strike damage or the DR penetration from ki pool.
Still possible, of course, and it also would make dipping into unMonk rather alluring, presuming the GM doesn't rule the buckler-like thing as using a shield for the purpose of Monk abilities.
zza ni wrote: swashbucklers who don't care for the damage can do well with tekku-kagi. I don't think so - Swashbuckler really needs that 18-20 weapon for panache recovery.
ErichAD wrote: You'd need to talk to your DM about how he'd rule brawler+monk's robe, as a literal reading provides enormous benefit. How's that?
Speaking personally, I'd go Full on Brawler. No Archetype.
Focus on Disarm improvement feats.
I can't find it now but I think there's a feat that allows disarm to have some effect against natural weapons? My google-fu is failing me.
Dwarftr wrote: I am thinking of a Urogue/fighter, tho not sure the split and how to add dex to disarming rolls...(we are lvl 5 now) with a minimum of 3 lvls of Urogue which will prob be included right away. As for armor, would like to make use of evasion so needs to be lite until i can get mithral (then it can be a medium armor made lite by mithral)
Or straight Brawler with either the Snakebite striker or the Winding path renegade archetypes.
SO what can i do with these ideas? also if u have a disarming build suggestion (must be using the Tekko-kagi and a catfolk) pls include it so i can look it over.
With 5 levels in Brawler, the base damage of the Tekko Kagi will start to increase. Sneak Attack Damage is nice.
The Catch off Guard Feat lets you lock in your Sneak Attack Damage with Improvised Weapons against unarmed opponents. Teko Kagi are disarming weapons. You can disarm your opponents with your Tekko Kagi, then do your Sneak Attack Damage against them after they are disarmed. Since Teko Kagi are strapped to your arm, you can wield improvised weapons in your hands and use your tekko kagi at the same time.
I like the fact that these are weapons that are strapped on and not held. That means you can also use a bow, and not worry about changing weapons when things go to melee: your melee weapons are already strapped on.
Fighter
1Fighter1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2F1Ranger1: Freebooter's Bane, Ranger Wands
Even a level 1 Ranger can use Wands with Ranger Spells. I like Gravity Bow, which lets you inflict Damage with your arrows as if they were 1 size bigger. So a 1d8 Composite Bow becomes 2d6.
3F1R2: Exotic Weapon: Orc Hornbow, Rapid Shot
Orc Hornbows do 2d6, so Gravity Bow makes this 3d6
4F1R3: Endurance
5F1R3Brawler1: Unarmed 1d6, Brawler's Cunning, Martial Training, Martial Flexibility (proficient in Tekko Kagi)
6F2R3B1: 2 weapon, Bravery +1
7F1R3B1Living Monolith1: Iron Will, Ka Stone, Toughness, Enlarge 3/day
So your arrows shrink after firing, so to be able to shoot large arrows, you need to carry around a quiver of large arrows, Drop them as a Free Action, Enlarge as a Swift Action, pick them up as a Move Action, then fire your first shot as a Standard Action, or use your Wand of Gravity Bow as your Standard Action, then the next round use Freebooter's Bane as a Move Action and take your first shot inflicting 4d6 Damage with +2 Attack and Damage from Point Blank Shot and Freebooter's Bane, all your allies getting +1.
Endurance and Iron Will are prerequisites for Living Monolith, but both are nice anyway because Endurance lets you sleep in Medium Armor, and Iron Will Gives you +2 Will Saves, which are otherwise weak in this character, and Will Saves are the worst Saves to fail.
8F3R3B1L1: Armor +1
9F4R3B1L1: Improved Grapple, Hamatula Strike
10F5R3B1L1: Weapon Training +1
11F6R3B1L1: Advanced Weapon Training Feat: Fighter's Focus, Weapon Focus, Tekko Kagi
12F6R3B2L1: Weapon Focus Armor Spikes
Now your Tekko Kagi inflict Damage as if you were a level 6 Warpriest: 1d8. Freebooter's Bane gives you a +1 Attack and Damage. the Ranger Wand Lead Blades increases 1d8 to 2d6, and Enlarge Person increases 2d6 to 3d6.
Tekko Kagi are Piercing weapons, so every hit with them lets you attempt to Grapple. Wear Armor Spikes, so every Grapple lets you do Armor Spike Damage, which also inflict 3d6 Damage from Fighter's Focus, Lead Blades, and Enlarge Person.
So this character starts out as a fairly standard archer shooting lots of high-damage arrows. Then also learns how to be a vicious melee fighter that tears people to shreds with iron claws and armor spikes.
1Brawler1: Snakebite Striker, Unarmed 1d6, Sneak Attack 1d6, Catch Off Guard
2B2: Combat Expertise, Brawler's Flurry
3B2Monk1: Monk of the Empty Hand, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple
Brawlers are proficient in all weapons in the Close Fighter Weapon Group, including Tekko Kagi. With Catch Off Guard, your unarmed opponents are Flatfooted against Attacks with your Improvised Weapons, and with Improved Disarm, you can start making your armed opponents unarmed. That level in Monk lets you Flurry with Improvised Weapons.
Where to go next?
Get more Sneak Attack Damage: levels in Ninja, Vivisectionist Alchemist, or Unchained Rogue. There is the Precise Strike Teamwork Feat. There is the Accomplished Sneak Attacker Feat.
Lock in your Sneak Attack Damage. Following is a list of some of my favorite ways to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage. I think a SA character should have like 2-3 of these methods in his toolbox, including the Improved Disarm thing.
Are you allowed to take the Improved Catch Off Guard Feat?
Dirty Tricks are really good: you can Blind your opponents, and if they have Blindsight, you can Deafen them, too, and probably put SA Damage back on the table. Improved Dirty Trick, Greater Dirty Trick, Quick Dirty Trick. You'd have already taken Combat Expertise (or Dirty Fighting) to get Improved Disarm.
Dip a level in Arcanist, and you can take the Dimensional Slide Arcane Exploit. It's a 10' Teleport that doesn't end your turn. No far, but it should make it easy to achieve Flanking.
Feinting: You already took Combat Expertise for Disarming, Snakebite Strikers can Feint as part of their Move.
Canny Tumble: If you successfully Move out of a Threatened Square without Provoking an Attack of Opportunity via Acrobatics, your opponent is also denied his Dex Mod to AC, so you get your Sneak Attack Damage. You'd have to take Dodge and Mobility first.
Dip 3 levels in Bard with the Flame Dancer Archetype. That will allow you and your allies to see through Fire and Smoke. Then get an Eversmoking Bottle.
Ninja Vanishing Trick: works only 1 Round. I would use this in combination with False Attacker for a Range Combatant.
Greater Invisibility: an expensive option for when you get high-level. Arcanists can use Wands of GI, and Ninja can get it as an Advanced Talent.
Dazzling Display, Shatter Defenses and Cornudgeon Smash
Build on your Sneak Attack Damage
Do that Hamatula Strike and Armor Spikes thing I showed you in my last post. This commits you to Piercing Weapons. Improvised Weapons aren't normally Piercing, although they can be made Piercing. Your Tekko Kagi are Improvised of course.
Take Sap Adept, Sap Master, and/or Knockout Artist. Between them, you get double your SA dice, and +2 Damage/die. This would commit you to blunt weapons, maybe unarmed strikes, and nonlethal damage.
TiwazBlackhand wrote: Speaking personally, I'd go Full on Brawler. No Archetype.
Focus on Disarm improvement feats.
I can't find it now but I think there's a feat that allows disarm to have some effect against natural weapons? My google-fu is failing me.
It's a two weapon trick called "arm bind". It requires three feats, two weapon fighting, two weapon defense, and weapon trick, two weapons, and it locks one natural weapon for a round.
There could be another.
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If you go the sneak attack build, I would recommend 3 levels of Makeshift Scrapper Rogue.
First focus on what you need to disarm with your first levels of Brawler (Combat Expertise/Dirty Fighting, Improved Disarm) then go for the Rogue levels to take advantage of unarmed opponents and smack them with whatever you deem appropriate. You could even walk around with an empty scabbard in which you sheath your opponent's blade and then proceed to beat the living crap out of him with his iwn sheathed sword!
Since you will be a Rogue and an adventurer, I would try to keep some mundane items made of special materials for when you fight DR protected creatures. My favourite is adamantine crowbar - that thing should almost be considered a weapon in itself! Silver cutlery also comes to mind...
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