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Wand of Animate Dead and personal Animate Dead

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So playing a cleric in a pirate style campaign. Planning on having undead friends. If I create a Wand of Animate Dead it at minimum level gives me 20 HD worth of undead under my command. Now as a cleric of 5th level I get 20 HD worth of undead. Would I with the wand have 40 HD worth under my control?
Sovereign Court

Even if you are using UMD to activate the wand, you are casting it as if it were coming from your class. So 1 pool of animate dead HD, ie 20 HD total.

A CL 5 wand of Animate Dead is going to cost you 17,500 gp (3*5*750 + 5*25*50), so might be out of your budget at level 5. I suppose you could have multiclassed and actually are level 10, but at that point 10HD individual undead are probably not a threat.

Ten 1 HD burning skeletons can be a major pain in the ass though. I speak as a GM dealing with them.

What a fun item to leave as loot. Lol.
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I agree; leaving ten 1HD Burning Skeletons as loot WOULD be fun. Oh wait, you meant...

I prefer burning, bloody skeletons. Now you have a resetting trap.
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"Oh, clerics with Channel Energy are dumb!" *10 Bloody/Burning Skeletons enter* "Hey, anyone got an AoE that does Positive Energy damage?"

I'm going to point out that the creator of the Animate Dead wand has to make all decisions when the wand is created other than the target. That means you have to set the amount of HD raised per charge, and pay the material component during creation.

So if you make a wand to raise 1HD burning skeletons that is 50gp per charge, or an additional material cost of 2500gp, and you can only target 1 1hd corpse per casting. If you wanted to create 10 HD of undead per casting, you'd need to make it at a CL 10 and pay for 10HD of undead to be raised, so an additional 250gp per charge for vanilla skeletons or zombies.

Making wands of spells with lots of variable effects and material components that vary in price dependent on use is a pain.
Sovereign Court
Meirril wrote:
I'm going to point out that the creator of the Animate Dead wand has to make all decisions when the wand is created other than the target. That means you have to set the amount of HD raised per charge, and pay the material component during creation.

Pretty sure that's just potions. Though you are correct about paying the material components in advance as I noted in my first post.

The idea is to literally have an undead army. It's for a pirate campaign none of us are really good. Even at bare minimum while expensive is still useful. Caster level for a Cleric is 5th times 4 equals 20 skeletons per casting. The current party is six including myself. We have a druid so he probably won't want one. That's eighty one HD skeletons plus whatever I can animate. Attacking other ships and towns instant army.
Derek Dalton wrote:
The idea is to literally have an undead army. It's for a pirate campaign none of us are really good. Even at bare minimum while expensive is still useful. Caster level for a Cleric is 5th times 4 equals 20 skeletons per casting. The current party is six including myself. We have a druid so he probably won't want one. That's eighty one HD skeletons plus whatever I can animate. Attacking other ships and towns instant army.

Just keep in mind you'll need to have enough corpses to cover that and some reliable way to lay down a desecrate spell. Without it a 5th level caster can only animate 10 HD per casting even though they can control 20 HD. Meaning you'll end up burning through the charges on your wands a lot quicker.

Animate Dead wrote:
Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can't create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. The desecrate spell doubles this limit.

Already saving corpses and have a portable alter on board our ship. I'm not sure if I will do this idea even. It's a feat to craft wands and I still want need three more before even considering other feats. Still a cool idea ready made marine boarding party
Derek Dalton wrote:
Already saving corpses and have a portable alter on board our ship. I'm not sure if I will do this idea even. It's a feat to craft wands and I still want need three more before even considering other feats. Still a cool idea ready made marine boarding party

yeah, unless you really want to invest in wands in might not be worth it. However, that doesn't mean you need completely abandon the idea. You could pick up craft wondrous item and just make Death's Head Talismans for everyone. It pretty much achieves the same thing but you end up with a more versatile crafting feat. You also don't have to pay as much up front which is nice if your skeletons actually survive from encounter to encounter.

The main downside is that it does occupy an amulet slot, though you might see if your DM will allow you to pay double to create a slotless version of it.

Talisman, Death’s Head (24 HD) 1,500 gp
Gentle Repose 3rd x 6th x 2,000 gp = 36,000 - 25% = 9,000
Fleshy Facade 2nd x 3rd x 2,000 gp = 12,000 divide the cost in half = 6,000

Do not forget to craft In a Desecrated area, with an Altar present for a +2 profane bonus on all attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws and +2 hit points per HD!

Total is 16,500 gp or 39,000 gp retail x 2 for slotless

The Relentless Zombie Lord or Magus templates count as +4 HD and can make for decent sailors and they in themselves give you another control option.

Set 1
Relentless Zombie Lord (+4HD) Ranger {favored enemy Human} 3 [7HD total]
Relentless Zombie Lord (+4HD) Ranger {favored enemy Human} 3 [7HD total]
Relentless Zombie Magus (+4HD) Wizard {Nucromancer} 6 [10HD total]

Set 2
Relentless Zombie Lord (+4HD) Fighter 2 [6HD total]
Relentless Zombie Lord (+4HD) Rogue 2 [6HD total]
Relentless Zombie Magus (+4HD) Cleric 2 [6HD total]
Relentless Zombie Magus (+4HD) Wizard 2 [6HD total]

Set 3
Relentless Zombie Magus (+4HD) Wizard {Nucromancer} 8 [12HD total]
Relentless Zombie Magus (+4HD) Wizard {Nucromancer} 8 [12HD total]

set 4
Relentless Zombie Lord (+4HD) Ranger {favored enemy Human} 8 [12HD total]
Relentless Zombie Lord (+4HD) Ranger {favored enemy Human} 8 [12HD total]

set 5
Whatever meets your needs for crew

set 6
etc...

OMG this theme remember me the Diablo 2 necromancer minions build hehehehehe

My plan is to actually command a ship full of undead. I have two problems the first is Animate Dead is an evil spell casting it makes me eventually evil which I don't really want. The second is mindless undead do not make good sailors. I could have sworn I saw a spell or ritual where you sacrifice a crew making them undead and bound to you.
Derek Dalton wrote:
My plan is to actually command a ship full of undead. I have two problems the first is Animate Dead is an evil spell casting it makes me eventually evil which I don't really want. The second is mindless undead do not make good sailors. I could have sworn I saw a spell or ritual where you sacrifice a crew making them undead and bound to you.

They can make good sailors or they can be combatants. Unfortunately, there's not really a way to do both unless you start making skeletal champions via create undead but then its harder to have absolute control without being undead yourself and/or being highly charismatic.

If you just want a mindless crew of undead that are competent sailors and you don't care about them fighting, the spell Skeleton Crew has you covered. It's not permanent but it is at least days per level which you could extend with meta-magic. Also, it doesn't count against how many undead you can control via animate dead. So you could have one set of warriors and another set sailing the ship.

Personally, it feels weird to me to be a necromancer and not be evil. But I recognize not everyone agrees with that and there is a 3rd party class that allows you to play a non-evil necromancer. So, you could always check with your DM to see if they'll let you play as a White Necromancer

The spells of evil don't mean that you will go to the evil path it's only tell you that in front of some culture think about you. If I'm a neutral good necromancer and use power word kill to kill a demon I'm evil or not?

The spell power word kill is evil but the way I used is to do good, so in my actions it could be considered neutral.

Animate dead it's evil but how you use the dead it's up to you. You can say that you use the dead to try to save a baby from a fire or hold the gate from invasion While civilian run in the back door

The problem casting spells with the evil depicter do slide you towards evil. I disagree with it but that's RAW. I am working with my GM to balance that out.
Lord Kailas Thank YOU!!! Been looking for that spell since I knew I was playing in the pirate campaign. Couldn't seem to find it no matter what. So again Thank you.
Derek Dalton wrote:

The problem casting spells with the evil depicter do slide you towards evil. I disagree with it but that's RAW. I am working with my GM to balance that out.

Lord Kailas Thank YOU!!! Been looking for that spell since I knew I was playing in the pirate campaign. Couldn't seem to find it no matter what. So again Thank you.

Alignment and evil actions are not exactly a 1 to 1 relationship. There is no perform X evil acts without a good action and you become evil. You become evil either when you choose to, or when the GM informs you that you've been acting evil to the extent that you need to own up to it and change to the alignment you are playing.

Though, honestly, a few evil spells used on a regular basis should drop you into Neutral alignment. Good people don't make a regular habit of using evil methods.

And keeping undead (even mindless) is an evil act. Lets not forget that all undead want to kill the living. You're mindless undead aren't any different. If they aren't carefully monitored they will kill living things. This isn't the same as creating a clockwork, golem or homoculus, these beings are charged with negative energy and inherently hate the living.
Zotpox wrote:


The Relentless Zombie Lord or Magus templates count as +4 HD and can make for decent sailors and they in themselves give you another control option.

Two major problems with creating Relentless Zombie Lord with a Death's Head Talisman:

First problem: You can't create Zombie Lords with Animate Dead. You need Create Undead for that. The Death's Head Talisman is limited to undead you could create with Animate Dead. Also Zombie Lords are the equivalent of Skeletal Champions so you need Create Undead cast by an 11th level caster, and the class levels are dependent on the body used.

Second problem: There is no defined method to apply the Relentless template to an undead with the Animate Dead spell.

There are rules for applying Fast and Plague templates to Zombies created with Animate Dead. None for Relentless. This is just a GM call since it is a template normally applied to zombies so it should be possible, but with no known cost.

Yes you can create zombie lords with Aiamate dead, it is a zombie template just like Bloody or Fast.

Animate dead only creates zombies or skeletons and their associated templates, this includes Lord and Mgeus.

To apply the Relentless template to an undead with the Animate Dead spell add 2 HD, its pretty straight foreword. Just because there's no extra spell or condition associated dose not mean it's impossible otherwise why mention it exists at all?

Just because Zombie Lord's fulfill the same roll as Skeletal Champions (on the cheap I might add) dose not give them the same stats nor for that matter the same creation requirements.

Yes lords and magus's are intelligent and have class levels and that's OK.

set 5
Zombie Lord (+2HD) Expert 1 (Profession: Salor) [3HD total]
Zombie Lord (+2HD) Expert 1 (Profession: Salor) [3HD total]
Zombie Lord (+2HD) Expert 1 (Profession: Salor) [3HD total]
Zombie Lord (+2HD) Expert 1 (Profession: Salor) [3HD total]
Zombie Lord (+2HD) Expert 1 (Profession: Salor) [3HD total]
Zombie Lord (+2HD) Expert 1 (Profession: Salor) [3HD total]
Zombie Lord (+2HD) Expert 1 (Profession: Salor) [3HD total]
Zombie Lord (+2HD) Expert 1 (Profession: Salor) [3HD total]

Just did sum digging.

Under the zombie entry, variants: Magus zombie entry, it specifically called out the zombie lord and magus as variant skeletal champions. This puts them solidly under create undead.

This begs the question.
Why are they not in the skeletal champion entry as variants, as they have no business being in the Skeleton or Zombie Variant entry's.

Skeletal Champion Variants

Skeleton Magus
Magus Zombie
Zombie Lord

My apologies I missed the forest for the shrubbery again.

Animate the bones with Animated Object and permanency and then cast Awaken construct on them.
Derek Dalton wrote:
My plan is to actually command a ship full of undead. I have two problems the first is Animate Dead is an evil spell casting it makes me eventually evil which I don't really want. The second is mindless undead do not make good sailors. I could have sworn I saw a spell or ritual where you sacrifice a crew making them undead and bound to you.

Anyone else getting whiplash at the idea that the writer doesn't want to cast Animate Dead because it will make them evil eventually ... but wants a ritual to SACRIFICE the crew of a ship to make them into undead minions and apparently doesn't think that will make them evil?

I'm more concerned about keeping my Chaotic Neutral alignment. I'm the group's healer and channel positive and don't want to lose that option. If I wasn't the healer I'd swan dive into evil. I am aware of the consequences I'm just hoping to balance the books if you will. My combat skills suck as a result of low physical stats due to age. Having some undead friends so I don't get hit is one of the ways I plan on doing this. Summoning monsters and deception is another.
Derek Dalton wrote:
I'm more concerned about keeping my Chaotic Neutral alignment. I'm the group's healer and channel positive and don't want to lose that option. If I wasn't the healer I'd swan dive into evil. I am aware of the consequences I'm just hoping to balance the books if you will. My combat skills suck as a result of low physical stats due to age. Having some undead friends so I don't get hit is one of the ways I plan on doing this. Summoning monsters and deception is another.

The last necromancer I played was also the party's healer. I made liberal use of the death's kiss domain ability and it worked fine. Just everyone was aware that outside of memorizing breath of life they wouldn't be getting any in-combat healing from my character.

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