Animal companion vs Eidolon vs Phantom


Advice


I'm wondering how strong are they compared to each other.


I don't have any experience with Phantoms but between Eidolons and Animal Companions, Eidolons are significantly stronger IMO.

Their base forms are a bit better than base animals, they grow at largely the same rate, except Eidolons also get evolutions on top of that.


cEidolon can go toe to toe with even well build martial characters (at least for damage), and even surpass most builds at many levels, that blows everything else out of the water, no competition.

unEidolon comes second, with the differences to a cEidolon mainly being the earlier levels, especially thanks to the significantly delayed pounce.

Animal Companions start rather slow, but become pretty good at 7th level. No comparison to an Eidolon, though.

Phantoms are pretty weak fighters, even with the most damage focussed emotional focus; they're more support and utility than straight damage.

Phantoms have a bunch of utility abilities dependign on the emotional focus, and they make one hell of a short-range scout, but they have to stay close to the Spiritualist. Eidolons (both kinds) don't have that issue thanks to the Unfetter spell, making them easily the best mid-range scouts of the bunch. They also make the best tool for skills, thanks to the Skilled evolution.
However, both Animal Companions and Phantoms have feats that allows keeping full progression through up to four off-class levels, Eidolons don't.

Dark Archive

In terms of raw power? Animal companions have the best potential. Pouncing tigers are absolute murder machines. Anything with pounce has potential to dominate, really. The potency varies, based on you choice of animal. As a core rulebook feature they have a sort of PR cushion so you're less likely to get odd looks from the table for bringing one (except, perhaps, for the tigers) Their versatility may vary, as people have different opinions on what they're allowed to do within the limits of animal intelligence and the Handle Animal skill. One of their secret advantages is the fact that druids (and to a lesser degree hunters) have access to a fantastic spell list for buffs that you can cast with the Share Spells feature.

APG Eidolons are infamous for being overpowered, but their physical prowess is just as diverse as animal companions. The big advantage is their sentience, allowing full agency in their tactics and even Use Magic Devise shenanigans.
Much of their negative perception comes from a higher floor for power and front-loaded evolutions like early Flight, Pounce at level one(!), and a +8 skill bonus from Skilled.

Unchained Eidolons suffered the brunt of the summoner nerfs, losing much of their raw strength. They seem much weaker compared to the still-strong Summon Monster spam, but you can still work out a decent build with solid choices. The doubled action economy is still a solid advantage.

Phantoms are in a strange niche where they have the sentience of Eidolons but nothing remotely close to evolutions in terms of customization. They are clearly made to synergize with their master instead of just acting in their stead, often using buffs and debuffs instead of raw damage.
Some GM opposition is due to their layers of unusual rules as well as the niche feel of psychic magic, but as long as the player and the GM know how the rules work you're gonna have a good time. Just understand that the most combat focused Phantom will work as well as a moderate Eidolon or Animal Companion.


Your character wealth will make a pretty big difference too. Eidolons and phantoms share slots with their master, so gearing them up can be problematic. Giving them an amulet of mighty fists means that the master can't use an amulet of natural armor. And they can't wear armor at all. The only limitation for animal companions is whether or not they have the item slot and whether or not you can find/afford the right gear for them.

The eidolon should still come out ahead, but the gear issues can lessen the gap somewhat.


Rosc wrote:
In terms of raw power? Animal companions have the best potential. Pouncing tigers are absolute murder machines.

Have you seen a properly build Eidolon? When we're talking about "potential" (which I was, because no one gives a f#&~ about which one has the least weak 'worse' option), we're comparing a big cat Animal Companion to a quadruped Eidolon. And the animal looses that comparison every level.

I may need to reexamine the unEidolon because I misrememberd how much the evolution pool is reduces, but a cEidolon is just crazy powerful.

Melkiador wrote:
Eidolons and phantoms share slots with their master, so gearing them up can be problematic. Giving them an amulet of mighty fists means that the master can't use an amulet of natural armor.

Well, both Barkskin and Greater Magic Fang are on the Summoner's spell list; a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell can help with spell slots. There's also Inscribe Magical Tattoo and some off-slot magic items.


Greater Magic Fang only works on one natural attack. The main thing that really makes eidolons heavy damage dealers is that they can have way too many natural attacks. Trying to cast magic fang on all of them would be very difficult. The amulet of mighty fists is almost required at a certain point. You could try keeping barkskin up on your summoner and eidolon, but the duration isn't incredibly long, so it won't be there all of the time and you'll be burning up a lot of spell slots that could be used on other options.

Like I said, the eidolon still comes out ahead, but if you compare a geared animal companion to a mostly naked eidolon, the eidolon doesn't look as over-powered.


GMF can be cast on one natural attack for max bonus, or all of them at once for +1. It has a decent duration but is also compatible with permanency.

Barkskin lasts 10 min/level. Fine for kicking down the door, probably OK when sneaking in. Less good when travelling thru the wilderness, true.

Dark Archive

Actually if you play a courtly hunter, and put every feat into evolved companion, you get basically the best of both worlds

Dark Archive

Derklord wrote:

Have you seen a properly build Eidolon? When we're talking about "potential" (which I was, because no one gives a f#$@ about which one has the least weak 'worse' option), we're comparing a big cat Animal Companion to a quadruped Eidolon. And the animal looses that comparison every level.

I may need to reexamine the unEidolon because I misrememberd how much the evolution pool is reduces, but a cEidolon is just crazy powerful.

I'm giving Animal Companions an edge due to the fact that it's most likely paired with a druid, and that spell list is more powerful than even APG summoner for raw buffing potenct. Animal Growth is nuts.

Unchained Eidolons have layers of nerfs. If you discount their free evolutions from subtypes (which rarely contribute to raw DPR output) you've got half the pool to work with. Pounce is now 3 points. The Size evolution now provides half of the benefits of the APG version but the penalties and the price are the same.
Homestly you kind of have to optimize just to keep up with the martials at mid to high levels.

Shadow Lodge

My experience is also with the original summoner. Everyone stopped playing them after the unchained nerf. The old one was nerfed for a reason.

Part of the pet differences comes from the classes they are acquired through. The animal companion for instance is stronger as a hunter as the class features buff the pet. The phantom when not manifested for fighting provides the spiritualist with additional abilities. Different classes have access to different spells which can buff their pets. There's also various feats and even alternate racial traits that can be used to buff certain pets. It's difficult to compare them alone.


Rosc wrote:
I'm giving Animal Companions an edge due to the fact that it's most likely paired with a druid, and that spell list is more powerful than even APG summoner for raw buffing potenct. Animal Growth is nuts.

You are mistaken. Animal Growth may be the biggest individual buff for raw damage, but Haste alone puts the Summoner way ahead in effective buffing potency. And while it depends on equipment, the Summoner's race, the number of Extra Evolution feats, and the amount of evolution points spent not on offense, even an animal companion buffed with both Haste and Animal Growth is behind in damage to a well build Eidolon with just Haste, even at 9th level when the Druid just got the spell and its impact is the highest.

The Summoner also has spells like Heroism and Greater Invisibility, and in one more level, Overland Flight. The Druid has cool stuff like Echolocation (I love that spell), but in your average party, I have to name Haste as the best buffing spell between the two lists.

And buffed or unbuffed, the cEidolon is ahead.

Edit: Although I haven't included using the Evolved Companion feat on the Druid. That should narrow it again, for the cost of MADdening the Druid.


The nature of haste is that most parties will have it by a certain level, anyway. But really, when dealing with creatures that already have a high number of attacks, adding one more attack isn't going to be as impactful. The difference of an eidolon having 5 claw attacks instead of 4 claw attacks is already a bit small. When the eidolon has 8 claw attack, adding an extra claw attack is almost unnoticeable to the play experience.

Dark Archive

Totem beast feat, extra evolution, and animal focus i feel hunters companion is a viable contender.

Big cat. Take planar focus, favored focus, add 1d6 plus 1d6 per 4 levels fire damage, give the pet rhinohide armor. Evolve it some extra attacks.

By 12th you could have 7 attacks that deal +2d6 on charge, and +4d6 fire damage each. That adds up quick

Or by 8th +2d6 & +3d6 fire on charge

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