Do great red wyrms ever willingly serve under someone else?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I could see one working for a really powerful mythic lich or the like, but they would probably only let their "master" think they are in charge, and turn on them as soon as they don't feel like following order anymore.


Answer 1: It depends on the GM's campaign.
Answer 2: It depends on your definition of willing. As a parallel, are elephants ever willing to be used as mounts? They need to be broken first and that can involve cruel treatment. They accept riders because the consequences of refusal are so bad.


They might serve an even stronger great wyrm (advanced, mythic, or with class levels), or even something else if it's much stronger than they are--they respect power, after all. If the dominant being wasn't another red dragon (or possibly a gold), it would likely chafe at them, though, and most would exploit any genuine opportunity to assert the dominant position in such a relationship--and woe to the creature who once asserted dominance over such a cruel tyrant!


TIAMAT?


Red Dragons fundamentally believe in "might makes right" and that the weak should defer to the powerful. When faced with a more powerful potential adversary, even a very powerful Red will defer to their "betters" but won't be happy about it and will look for any opportunity to betray their "master" for personal gain or simply set out to become even more powerful.

So if you're the boss of a great wyrm red dragon, it's incumbent on you to make the red feel like this is a mutually beneficial arrangement, and that they're ultimately of primary importance in the endeavor.


Why not.


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A red wyrm might serve, but they wont do it happily. They will most likely look for any opportunity to subvert and kill the person they are serving, as they'd prefer to be the strongest and to be in charge.


Depends on what you mean by serve. I could see one being offered a deal by a powerful enough being that it would perform tasks to get whatever payment it had bargained for.

But I don't see any dragon being happy or willing slave.


In some settings red dragons 'serve' githyanki who call on their aid, but that's because Tiamat made a deal with Gith.


It's in a weight class where it could kill a demigod if it prepared appropriately.

Trying to "force" the servitude of something that strong is an insane gamble that can blow up in your face any time.

Willing service involves an actual god or something approaching that level of absolute might (as demonstrated by Kazavon, great wyrm dragons that become religious zealots can be terrifying).

A great wyrm red dragon is king of all it can survey, and they can probably reach the upper atmosphere when flying.

But kings will still accept friends and allies.

It won't bow down to you, but if you aren't competing with it and you share similar passions and you're strong enough that it would have to risk its life to fight you, you may well be able to make an agreement to start splitting the world between you.


I can see a temporary service as being more common than long term - they are chaotic, after all, and of course whoever they might serve would have to be of astounding power and offering something the wyrm wanted drastically, and had little chance to get otherwise.


Maybe a particular red dragon is more greedy than proud; they don't all have to have identical personalities. Hire of that kind is likely to be a temporary arrangement though.

Another might have been raised from hatching to identify their pride with the glory of the lord or state which raised them. Dragon eggs are an expensive commodity.

If they don't see it as service, a red dragon might be just fine with having a skilled rider with a bow or polearm to add some extra punch in a fight.


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"This human? Oh, he's my familiar. And backup food supply, if necessary."


A great wyrm red dragon? I’m sure it would let someone else think it was in charge.


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blahpers wrote:
"This human? Oh, he's my familiar. And backup food supply, if necessary."

"I call her Menchi."


Dragons are pretty reclusive, even amongst their own species, so "teaming up" with anyone would be pretty rare. Sometimes I wonder how dragons even survive without snuggy blankets, ice cream, and netflix.

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