*cough* one full year hiatus later, uh yeah so... I'm working on a low magic, though I don't know if I'd entirely say its low magic, setting based off of the thematics and feel of Fromsoft's new game Sekiro. There is currently no PC class that has spells above lvl 4 @pc lvl 20. The immediate conflict of the campaign is the civil war in *Sengoku Japan Analog (Name TBD)* of which the PCs should eventually get wrapped up in by chance or by choice, however the more "global" or long term conflict, is the interaction between the apparition or spirit like enemies (what I think Miyazaki was trying to do was incorporate some aspects of Shinto, but don't quote me on it) and the forces of *Buddhism analog (Name Also, Also TBD)*. Naturally, restless spirits who died unfulfilled, and spirits of corrupt monks will come into conflict with the PC's when they have dealt with some of "war" aspects of the campaign, but not the "politics" to shake things up. The trouble I'm currently running into is designing an effective version of:
A) The Terror Meter (I'm aware of the chain of fear status effects, and no I don't like that they keep my players from engaging with the enemies at hand, at the upper levels of the effect)
B) Making Spells rewarding but hard to access.
C) Any historically interesting information to add the setting, advice on running a low magic setting that feels gritty, and Doing advice in general is very, very welcome!
Ideas for A)
Make increasing levels of shaken, panicked, etc. deal increased amounts of wisdom damage wisdom damage, will save to half.
Ideas for B)
I've though about giving every spell its own un-eschew-able material components, and making PCs quest for them, but I don't know if that'll be a fun mechanic or annoying fetch quest every time someone wants to cast Cure Light Wounds.
**For commenters: I'd prefer if you've played game before so you're familiar with the concepts discussed above. If you haven't played the game and think you have a good idea, go watch a Sekiro game clip of someone fighting either a Headless or a Shichimen Warrior.
***For Sekiro Payers: I'm not censoring this thread, and there are likely to be spoilers, if you haven't finished the game and don't want details revealed prematurely consider this your only and final warning to turn back spoiler free.
I have a small amount of experience with Sekiro (I've watched some gameplay :p) but low-magic is something I shy away from.
How will the spellcasting progression work? When you mention only 4th level spells, do you mean casters like Paladin and Bloodrager, or will the spell progression for 9-level casters be stretched out over many levels? Pathfinder is made for high magic. It's gonna be difficult to balance the feel of a low-magic game and the power that spells add to a party. Making spells worth the time to learn and gather components will mean that you'll have to heavily modify said spells to increase their effects- which could lead players (especially those used to playing spellcasters) to only focus on being able to cast spells and gather components, due to their greater power. That might not be too bad, but does seem to detract from the idea of a low magic group.
Sekiro itself doesn't immediately strike me as "low magic". There might not be too many big, flashy effects, but there's plenty of magical attacks and magical creatures.
Adding wisdom damage to fear effects is unwise (I'm hilarious), IMO. A will save to negate the effects is going to lead to low/medium-wis characters being heavily punished, with less and less chance of making their saving throws as the fear effects get worse. This could lead to a similar effect as what you're trying to avoid (0 wis means comatose). A scaling system of penalties may work better. Perhaps at the highest levels, characters must save to be able to approach the source of their fear, but can still act normally (albeit with penalties to skill checks and attack rolls).
How will the spellcasting progression work? When you mention only 4th level spells, do you mean casters like Paladin and Bloodrager, or will the spell progression for 9-level casters be stretched out over many levels?...you'll have to heavily modify said spells to increase their effects- which could lead players (especially those used to playing spellcasters) to only focus on being able to cast spells and gather components, due to their greater power. That might not be too bad, but does seem to detract from the idea of a low magic group.Sekiro itself doesn't immediately strike me as "low magic". There might not be too many big, flashy effects, but there's plenty of magical attacks and magical creatures.
Adding wisdom damage to fear effects is unwise (I'm hilarious), IMO. A will save to negate the effects is going to lead to low/medium-wis characters being heavily punished... A scaling system of penalties may work better. Perhaps at the highest levels, characters must save to be able to approach the source of their fear, but can still act normally (albeit with penalties to skill checks and attack rolls).
Yeah quick answer to your questions
Spells: As per paladin, ranger, BR, etc. There are no full casters.
Sekiro strikes me as a "low spell" world, but not low magic hence "... working on a low magic, though I don't know if I'd entirely say its low magic...", but I get where you're coming from, it is a world where real magic exists.
The spell cost ideas are WIP, I'm hard pressed to see a fast BAB character only cast spells given they have somewhere between 4-6 spells/day at reasonable levels (4-10, maybe even a little bit further) that are mainly buffs and not just fireball. I'm curious to see if what you mentioned does become an issue at the table, as I have a player who is near and dear to the wizard class.
The Terror Meter Concept: So this may frighten you (let the pun games begin), but that was actually my intention. That somehow, someone in the party needs to deal with the fear chain of conditions, or people are gonna start dropping. Granted, this might be unbalanced class to class (looking at you fighter) but the effect of tacking on temp wis damage via fear (scaling 1d2, 1d4, 1d6 based on condition level, only while having that condition/in the presence of that enemy) forces the players to deal with it, or to approach enemies differently.
Think about fighting the headless (on land) in the actual game; for me personally I change my entire prosthetic load out from Mist Raven, Fireworks, Axe/Vent to malcontent, laz flame, and purple shield. I also equip purple gourd and confetti like any sane person would. I want my players to feel that same effect of OH SNAP we can't slam into this guy at full force and expect to win this encounter, without them getting bodied in 2 rounds.
An alternate scaling system that has scaling levels of fear, but allows to people to act normally is cool, and also less game ruining than, "and then the rouge and bard ran to hills never to be again."
This might be my lack of pathfinder DM'ing knowledge, but pathfinder feels like it can be very fun with low magic (not to roast 5e but...) as opposed to 5e, due to all the combat feats that exist to making things interesting. Can you just run me through your logic/experiences against low magic, and maybe issues that it will cause game flow?
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My opinion on low-magic: Many monsters are built with spell-like abilities or supernatural abilities that mimic spells. Monsters going around spamming those, while players have a decreased ability to deal with them, is going to make for a very difficult encounter- possibly unwinnable in some cases. I'm sure that you want it to be difficult- this is Sekiro, after all- but your players may be annoyed at constantly facing enemies with abilities that they can never have or never counter. If you remove the spell-like abilities of monsters entirely, you end up with something that's not only lower CR, but the combat itself becomes much more boring. You may have to rebuild or design new monsters entirely.
Martials in Pathfinder have access to combat feats, yes, but most melee or ranged combat eventually boils down to "I hit it with a full attack" and nothing else. If you're going to play low-magic, you should find other ways to make combat interesting (Like implementing an actual system of prosthetics or new mechanics like in Sekiro). The last thing you want is for your gritty game to turn boring because of the low-magic, rather than being enhanced by it.
Low-magic will slow down the game regardless of its effect on combat. If players can't channel energy, lay on hands, or spam a wand of CLW after a battle, they end up resting for days and days while using what little healing magic they have. Pathfinder combat is built for high magic, and the rules are made around the assumption that magic exists and is widely available. Ultimately you will probably have to change some existing rules to make low-magic viable, and still keep the difficult feel of a Sekiro-based game.