[PFS] Lunar Oracle advice


Advice

Grand Lodge

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Greetings all, I've been contemplating a Lunar Oracle build for PFS- Primary casting with Animal companion support.
Two things! First- He's Aasimar- yes, i have enough credits to play one via GM Boon. Second- Because I wanted to, i've applied a Fighting Off Corruption: Lycantropy "boon" to this character, so he has a double Lycanthropy curse.

He just hit level 2, so i have to commit to a build direction before his next game.

Backstory: Palix is an worshiper of Ashava, and was afflicted by lycanthropy during one of his pilgrimages. During his convalescence, he was befriended by a lone wolf and he took it as a sign that this is a test. But he is still hesitant to expose himself to society, so he is somewhat reclusive.

Palix, Aasimar Oracle
Lunar Mystery/Lycanthropy Curse
Hermit archetype

10 Str/14 Dex/14 Con/13 Int/12 Wis/17 Cha

1> Extra Revelation: Primal Companion (wolf), Recluse's Stride*
2> -
3> ?, Prophetic Armor/ Moonlight Beam*
4> -
5> ?
6> -
7> ?, Fade from Memory*

Castur, Wolf
1> Toughness

since Cleric spell list doesn't have good druid companion buffs, i do plan on taking Improved Spell Sharing to try to buff up my companion.
Though, the Lycanthropy curse hinders my use of Language-dependant spells while in combat, my spell list would be a bit restricted.

So, right now- i'm still pondering a direction to take this build. I'm half tempted to give the animal companion the Totem Guide archetype to more fit the theme of this build.

Suggestions and advice welcome; i don't care for "This is the build i did!" posts or advice that aren't in line with the theme i'm trying to go with build.

Shadow Lodge

Selvaxri wrote:

Greetings all, I've been contemplating a Lunar Oracle build for PFS- Primary casting with Animal companion support.

Two things! First- He's Aasimar- yes, i have enough credits to play one via GM Boon. Second- Because I wanted to, i've applied a Fighting Off Corruption: Lycantropy "boon" to this character, so he has a double Lycanthropy curse.

He just hit level 2, so i have to commit to a build direction before his next game.

Backstory: Palix is an worshiper of Ashava, and was afflicted by lycanthropy during one of his pilgrimages. During his convalescence, he was befriended by a lone wolf and he took it as a sign that this is a test. But he is still hesitant to expose himself to society, so he is somewhat reclusive.

Palix, Aasimar Oracle
Lunar Mystery/Lycanthropy Curse
Hermit archetype

10 Str/14 Dex/14 Con/13 Int/12 Wis/17 Cha

1> Extra Revelation: Primal Companion (wolf), Recluse's Stride*
2> -
3> ?, Prophetic Armor/ Moonlight Beam*
4> -
5> ?
6> -
7> ?, Fade from Memory*

Castur, Wolf
1> Toughness

since Cleric spell list doesn't have good druid companion buffs, i do plan on taking Improved Spell Sharing to try to buff up my companion.
Though, the Lycanthropy curse hinders my use of Language-dependant spells while in combat, my spell list would be a bit restricted.

So, right now- i'm still pondering a direction to take this build. I'm half tempted to give the animal companion the Totem Guide archetype to more fit the theme of this build.

Suggestions and advice welcome; i don't care for "This is the build i did!" posts or advice that aren't in line with the theme i'm trying to go with build.

Your curse is invalid:

Hermit wrote:
Oracle’s Curse: A hermit must choose the reclusive curse (below) at 1st level.
Reclusive (Legacy of the First World pg. 22) wrote:
You are reclusive and paranoid to the point that your allies cannot easily help you in times of stress or unease. Whenever you are in combat, your allies must succeed at a melee touch attack to affect you with touch spells, and you must attempt saving throws to resist all spells cast by anyone other than yourself, even those cast by allies. Instantaneous spells you cast only on yourself affect you as though your caster level were 1 higher. At 5th level, any spells you cast only on yourself affect you as if they were modified by the Extend Spell feat. This does not increase their level or casting time. At 10th level, you are immune to charm spells and spell-like abilities. At 15th level, you gain spell resistance equal to 10 + your oracle level.


This one is for the endgame, but Improved Eldritch Heritage (Maestro) can make you fully ignore the penalties of the Lycanthropy curse.

Grand Lodge

@Taja- good catch. i haven't played an Oracle before, so i'm still getting the Curse/Revelation thing sorted.

Getting rid of the Lycanthropy curse removes my speech restrictions, but then i also loose out on my bonus to handle animal to my wolf.
I do like getting Blind/Deaf to my spell list, over Fumbletongue.

Secret Wizard wrote:
This one is for the endgame, but Improved Eldritch Heritage (Maestro) can make you fully ignore the penalties of the Lycanthropy curse.

So, three feats the negate a minor penalty of the build? eh... that "Daze Monster" spell like ability could be nice, but that's a heavy feat tax...

also, as Taja pointed out- i have to take the Reclusive Curse instead of the Lycanthropy. I'll still be plagued by Lycanthropy through the boon, and that is cause of my hermit status.

Silver Crusade

@OP: Are you sure you want to play a character with low 10 Strength in a fantasy/medieval world where muscle power is so important? With 10 Strength you will be forever useless with melee weapons. With just 14 Strength you can be a credible martial threat. This changes your party role from 'one who must be protected' to 'one who protects others'.

A mere 14 Strength won't help much in high level PFS combat, but it will help you make it to high level. Carry a simple longspear and the GM's monsters will have to consider your reach screen. This tends to provide more protective value than does a shield and costs very little. Even if you never melee attack during your turn you'll likely rack up AoOs and damage during the GM's turn. This extra damage is free.

14 Strength may seem low, but no one will volunteer to get stabbed by you. Also, as a divine caster, you have the innate ability to buff your combat abilities through the roof. For example, a few 1st and 2nd level buff spells can temporarily make your damage output competitive with a dedicated martial. It's not something you should do all the time, but it's a handy thing to have in your back pocket.

It's something to think about.

Grand Lodge

Having strength on that concept isn't needed. I know that for having one at level 12. There's enough otherwise offence to not having to go front, and it would be an ersatz of physical damage anyway.

Silver Crusade

Selvaxri wrote:
since Cleric spell list doesn't have good druid companion buffs, i do plan on ..

Say what? Cleric spell list has some of the best Animal Companion buffs. Your best low level options are:

* Bless
* Bull's Strength
* Divine Favor

Just those spells, at low level, get your companion +4 to hit and +3 to damage. Plus they have the added bonus of buffing both you and your companion at the same time. Share Spells is great. You would get +4 to hit and +4 to damage from those same buffs. If you buff both your pet and yourself and wield a +1 longspear with 14 Strength your possible two attacks per round will each hit for ~13 hp. How does that compare to your wolf companion's damage output?

Philippe Lam wrote:
Having strength on that concept isn't needed. I know that for having one at level 12. There's enough otherwise offence to not having to go front, and it would be an ersatz of physical damage anyway.

It's certainly not needed for the concept. However, the opportunity cost is quite low. It's an extra thing one can do incidentally on the side without hindering the other things you do. The cost would be dropping INT and WIS both to 10. The payoff would be improved offense and defense that changes your party role from 'one who must be protected' to 'one capable of protecting others'. This will be most noticeable levels 2 through 7, when you lack enough spell slots to cast a spell every round. It won't matter one whit at 12th level, but PFS characters retire at 11th level and half their career is 6th level and below.

Grand Lodge

I understand the appeal of a decent strength score, but i do want to keep this a casting-oriented class. I'll have my Wolf to do most of the heavy hitting, and with Spell Sharing- i don't need myself in the front lines.
I've seen many a melee oriented, Metal or Warsighted Oracle. Medium Armor Prof and Shield Prof are good supplemental abilities for a martial class.

Dropping my Int to 10 isn't a bad idea, though the boon i've applied to the character gives him a -2 to all Int/Cha skills until i get the affliction removed.

The Reclusive Curse increases the caster level MY Personal Spells, and later a free Extend- so Improved Spell Sharing is definitely on the list- but probably not until my Wolf gets an Intelligence bonus.

I could shift stats around
12 Str/13 Dex/14 Con/10 Int/12 Wis/18 Cha

would definitely get a better bonus to my AC when/if i take the Prophetic Armor revelation.
I was looking as the Shield of Shards spell, and i've never had a character use a shield... so that's an interesting direction i could take.


Going Lunar and ignoring Prophetic Armor is just, as the kids used to say, 'wack'.

An Angel-Blooded Oracle with +2 STR and +2 CHA and a wolf is a natural beat-down machine *and* caster.

Take the feat Noble Scion: of War (CHA instead of DEX to initiative rolls) and the trait Irrepressible (CHA instead of WIS to important Will saves) along with Prophetic Armor (CHA instead of DEX to AC/Reflex), and you can create a monster hybrid STR/CHA character basically unaffected by dumping DEX/WIS - and unlike most dumping, dropping DEX/WIS while still being effective at their aspects is awesome RP. If the focus is totally casting, you can still run longspear-and-wolf reach weapon power - Tandem Trip Wolf and Paired Opportunists plus spells = deathmachine.

Grand Lodge

Prophetic Armor is not mandatory per se, a little dex would allow the character to get away without it.

If have to choose between 14 strength and 14 int, I would choose the latter. 2 more SP/level looks better than +2 to hit, +2 damage unless heavy buffing occurs (which isn't always allowed). There's often not enough skill points to spend on being social, and grabbing some knowledges and spellcrafts during the process. So having more strength isn't worth being less versatile outside of combat. It's not an opportunity cost in that case, it's a burden.

Now martial-focused lunars are very possible. But with strength or dex as main abilities, not charisma.


I think the point is that 14 STR/10 DEX is better than 10 STR/14 DEX if you grab Prophetic Armor. You can use a breastplate, have the encumbrance for it, and get better AC.


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A 9-Level caster with an animal companion is certainly capable of being a full contributor to a party without ever swinging a melee weapon. If your concept is 10 STR, that is perfectly fine.

That said, I would certainly develop a plan for what to do when you don't need to waste a spell but want to be able to contribute that round anyway.

Grand Lodge

BadBird wrote:

Going Lunar and ignoring Prophetic Armor is just, as the kids used to say, 'wack'.

Take the feat Noble Scion: of War (CHA instead of DEX to initiative rolls) and the trait Irrepressible (CHA instead of WIS to important Will saves) along with Prophetic Armor (CHA instead of DEX to AC/Reflex), and you can create a monster hybrid STR/CHA character basically unaffected by dumping DEX/WIS - and unlike most dumping, dropping DEX/WIS while still being effective at their aspects is awesome RP. If the focus is totally casting, you can still run longspear-and-wolf reach weapon power - Tandem Trip Wolf and Paired Opportunists plus spells = deathmachine.

Two Things: Noble Scion feat must be taken at first level. which means that i won't get my wolf companion until third, if i take Extra Revelation and get both Primal Companion & Prophetic Armor- and that kind of kills the RP.

Second, I plan on taking the Totem Guide companion archetype for RP and flavor reasons and going with the Tandem Trip/Paired Opportunist build, that's already eating into my limited feats- not to mention, if this character lives to high levels, tripping becomes moot as some enemies become too big to trip or can't be tripped entirely. For this build, i was thinking the wolf is going to be more bodyguard than aggressor.

I understand those are great abilities with great synergy with the class, but sometimes it's not meant for every instance of a player building a character.
I don't want to entirely dump my dex- sometimes a range attack is needed, and if i put all my points into Str when the character is meant to be a caster... then i'm more SoL than before i started. I'm looking at the Hedging Weapons spell and Moonlight Beam revelations.

Quote:
An Angel-Blooded Oracle with +2 STR and +2 CHA and a wolf is a natural beat-down machine *and* caster.

What "Blooded" ART's are legal for Aasimars?

Please note, i'm not shooting down these ideas. i'd like to explore other options and consider them, rather than just being handed a "This is how to play an Oracle" guide and running with what every other Oracle has.
Bringing in the Hermit archetype is entirely flavor. Upside is getting free Extend spells at the cost of being Superstitious and having more movement with my mandatory first revelation. Not vital to the build, but makes it interesting.


Retrain into NobleScion.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
BadBird wrote:


Take the feat Noble Scion: of War (CHA instead of DEX to initiative rolls) and the trait Irrepressible (CHA instead of WIS to important Will saves) along with Prophetic Armor (CHA instead of DEX to AC/Reflex), and you can create a monster hybrid STR/CHA character basically unaffected by dumping DEX/WIS - and unlike most dumping, dropping DEX/WIS while still being effective at their aspects is awesome RP. If the focus is totally casting, you can still run longspear-and-wolf reach weapon power - Tandem Trip Wolf and Paired Opportunists plus spells = deathmachine.

Note, Irrepressible only applies vs charm and compulsion effects; my lunar oracle is taking a 2 level dip in Mesmerist to get Cha to all saves.

Grand Lodge

Perfect Tommy wrote:
Retrain into NobleScion.

Not possible as it's a level 1-only choice.

Grand Lodge

Philippe Lam wrote:
Perfect Tommy wrote:
Retrain into NobleScion.
Not possible as it's a level 1-only choice.

PFS allows unlimited free rebuilds until you play as lvl 2 character. I can "rebuild" the character with the Noble Scion feat- but i'm debating if it's worth it for the initiative boost.

i know Irrepressible only applies to Charm/Compulsion spells and effects- but it doesn't apply to Fear spells or staving off Negative Channels.
Indomitable Faith is a straight +1 to Will Saves.


The attitude in my post was meant to be taken as humorous endorsement on how nice those options are, rather than some kind of tyranny. My fault.

Anyhow, even besides any kind of stat-dumping or whatever, Prophetic Armor (even if taken later on, without DEX dumping) is just crazy good. Assuming that by higher level CHA is at least 24 and DEX was no more than 14, Prophetic Armor is effectively one feat for a +5 to AC and Reflex saves.

Similarly, by higher level Irrepressible (say with 24CHA and 12WIS) is going to be a whopping +6 to Charm/Compulsion saves, where Indomitable is always just a +1 to all Will saves.

Recluse's Stride and pet-positioning tactics could be very interesting with Amateur Swashbuckler: Dodging Panache and a Blue Scarf Swordmaster's Flair. Turn a morningstar or shortspear into a reach weapon and dance around with CHA-to-AC non-provoking repositioning steps while casting spells. Of course, you can't double the CHA AC with Prophetic Armor, sadly.

For that matter, one level of Inspired Blade would open up Deeds and Fencing Grace for powerful DEX/CHA focus with a reach rapier (again, Blue Scarf); Muse-Touched Aasimar for +DEX/CHA. Cast spells most rounds while using DEX-based reach rapier and things like Parry/Riposte and Dodging Panache alongside your wolf to play vicious reach, flank and AoO games.

Grand Lodge

Dipping into Inspired Blade would hinder my wolf's growth. maybe as a late level investment.

The Amateur Swashbuckler is an interesting idea, though- with relatively low Str/Dex, the chances of a successful parry are low.

Again- no one's said which of the Aasimar subraces are legal in PFS. if there's one that's thematic with an Ashavan Werewolf, then that would be interesting.

I'm still considering directions for this build. I'm am not against being Melee-capable, but would prefer to stay out of combat and with my "guardian" Totem Guide Wolf.
Noble Scion would push back my wolf until 3rd lvl, and my third level feat would have to be Extra Revelation.


All heritages are legal if you own blood of angels or inner sea races

Go to Additional Resources..


Amateur Swashbuckler doesn't get Parry anyhow; but you can pick up Dodging Panache for CHA to AC (on top of DEX, without needing Prophetic Armor). That and the Panache pool to use a Swordmaster's Flair: Blue Scarf for a one-handed reach weapon are the reason to take it. With Dodging Panache and reach you can keep constant reach-AoO range with 5ft steps and immediate actions and potentially dodge full attacks. With the Hermit ability to ignore threatened terrain, Dodging Panache can even avoid provoking from other foes, making it even stronger. And with a reach weapon, you can support your wolf with flanking even at a distance.


Agathion-blooded looks to be thematic with a werewolf and an oracle isn't going to say no to +Con/Cha.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dodging Panache gives you a Dodge bonus equal to your Cha Mod, which will stack with prophetic armor; as Prophetic armor just adds your Cha mod directly to AC.

Grand Lodge

As much as i'd like to stay out of combat, and try to focus more on casting- you all are pushing me to get in the frontlines.
i realize that the Divine spell list is more suited towards support, so it's not a bad idea to have some martial capabilities...

If i go with Amateur Swashbuckler/Dodging Panache, i was thinking about going with Eldritch Heritage and grabbing the Shapechanger bloodline and using that in tandem with the Gift of Claw and Horn revelation.

downside is, i'd need Skill Focus (Disguise) to be able to get Eldritch Heritage.

Quote:

Pallix

Agathion-Blooded Aasimar
Lunar Oracle [Hermit] (Recluse curse)

14 Str/12 Dex/15 Con/10 Int/10 Wis/18 Cha

1> Noble Scion (War)
*Recluses Stride
2> -
3> Extra Revelation
*Primal Companion [Wolf (Totem Guide)], Prophetic Armor
4> -
5> Amateur Swashbuckler
6> -
7> Improved Spell Sharing
*Fade from Memory
8> -
9> Skill Focus (Disguise)
10> -
11> Eldritch Heritage (Shapechanger)
*Gift of Tooth and Claw
12> -

Granted, i don't know how viable natural attacks are at that level. but it does hurt that two of my Revelations are taken by my archetype. The main benefit would be the free Extend duration on my CL+1 Personal spells.

Grand Lodge

would still like input on this build.

I don't think natural weapons would be a worthwhile investment at the level i can get them- not to mention, i'm not familiar with primary attacks vs natural attacks at all.

Moonlight Beam dealing 1d6+5 and possibility of blinding is pathetic at the level i can get it.
Touch of the Moon imo, is a bad ability late levels- as it's nothing more than False Life.
The other Lunar Revelations aren't that great either.

So i'm stuck with Form of the Beast or Gift of Tooth and Claw.

i think it is more important to get Improved Spell Sharing as early as i can- so, 5th lvl after my Wolf gets the ability point boost.

Still considering feats for my Wolf, as the Totem Guide archetype, i'm considering more a "spiritual mentor" then aggressor- so i don't plan on taking any combat feats like power attack or the ilk.


I don't get it. Are you doing this for flavor or for optimization? I think you should pick either.

If you are optimizing, then your path is clear. Get STR, Heavy Armor, do polymorph effects, fight alongside your beast, use Beastmaster Style or something while hitting people with natural attacks and using spells for utility.

If you are going for flavor, place less onus on all of this and just enjoy the RP.

Trying to go through the middle is gonna drive you insane.

Worst case scenario dude dies.

Grand Lodge

Secret Wizard wrote:

I don't get it. Are you doing this for flavor or for optimization? I think you should pick either.

If you are optimizing, then your path is clear. Get STR, Heavy Armor...

question- why do you consider the "clear path" for optimization strength and heavy armor?

people have been saying the "optimum" build for oracle is Noble Scion (War) & Prophetic Armor- why must i do what other people have done?

I'd like the character to be playable without being a complete waste of table space, if i go more flavor/RP build. I can just RP this character, and keep the build.

I'm mostly looking for other ideas on what this character could potentially do.
My late level revelation is effectively moot. i could build towards something like Eldritch Heritage (Shapechanger)/Gift of Tooth & Claw- but i don't think that Natural Weapons are viable at late level without specifically building towards.

I need to take Extra Revelation for a Wolf Companion at some point, and i do want Improved Spell Sharing... so that leaves 7th and 9th feats open for possible build directions.


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Quote:
people have been saying the "optimum" build for oracle is Noble Scion (War) & Prophetic Armor- why must i do what other people have done?

People get SAD-build boners but don't really consider optimal numbers is my thought on this. Like, Noble Scion is rarely better than Improved Initiative, and neither of them is particularly game breaking.

Prophetic Armor takes a Revelation and doesn't give you any upside vis-a-vis just having 12 DEX, Heavy Armor prof, and a set of full plate. But those SAD-boners are unstoppable. I mean, spend a revelation to have +4 dodge AC and wear a breastplate and sit at 19 AC... or spend a single throwaway feat and get 20 AC?
Pretty clear choice to me.

Natural weapons are totally viable for 3/4 BAB classes. The alternative is a weaksauce second attack.
I don't see your alignment, but if you are LN, you could take the Spirit Oni Master feat for another natural attack to pile on to the rest.

My point will still be that you are a full caster though. If you want to be useful, just plop spells. You have a ton of latitude for roleplaying and dawdling around with flavor feats and revelations because the bulk of your power is just being there to cast em spells.

Grand Lodge

Thankfully, i am not a type to follow those with SAD-boners. I tend to build more towards flavor than min/max'ing. i don't like dumping stats, only if it makes sense for the character through backstory.

I don't mind taking Prophetic Armor, but don't really see the necessity of Noble Scion- though my initiative will suck without it or Improved Initiative.

I don't think taking Heavy Armor will be a thing for the character. The Hermit's Recluse's Stride evasiveness, the possibility of Amateur Swashbuckler/Dodging Panache, lends best to a light armor build.

If i do manage to cure my character's lycanthropy, i'd see it as my character's acceptance of his "curse" and Natural Weapons or Beast Shape seems appropriate for the character.

So, the question still begs- should i attempt to go for a Natural Weapon style, or would Beast Shape be more effective?

Grand Lodge

The benefit of an animal companion and extended spells and improved spells sharing is to share buff spells to help in melee.
If you are keeping in the back, you dont benefit much from this.
And each round you cast control or debuff spells you dont benefit from this investment either.
But dont worry - you will be fine. A full caster with a full HD animal companion will do well in any setting with any feats.

Fluff-vise you could have a hound archon ancestor, but the oracle curse have corrupted the bloodline to a more feral outcome in a Lycanthropy curse (your boon - I know you are not taking the oracle curse).

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