So ever since I saw trapping of the warrior I felt that would fix my biggest issue with the occultist (accuracy.) I was greatly disappointed to find it banned, but thinking it was new at the time maybe they just hadn't gotten around to it..roughly a year or more has passed and still nothing. I find that really annoying that something will be printed in a book but banned in PFS, worse when I don't see a reason WHY... Seriously when you look at other med bab they usually have accuracy boosts be it spells or abilities..Occultist gets ..bane, and thats it. Sorry for the complaining but with PF2 right around the corner, I'm bummed about this one. I'm sure there are others :P
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You will rarely find a “why” to certain rules being banned because it just encourages incessant arguments over the logic behind it which almost always turn out to be a difference of opinion on what is good vs bad for the campaign. Some people agree with the decision, others don’t, and some complain about it repeatedly. History has taught Paizo it’s better to just say nothing and ban a rule.
I would love the reasoning behind it. Heck if nothing else allow it with a clause (aka must hold/ use shield) Heck knowing the why of it would help me understand it. Most people don't even touch a occultist, with really little support for occult classes, i would think getting them playable would be nice. I'll have to read up on it again but I don't recall anything broken
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A-ha! Found my stock answer:
When a player option (archetype, equipment, feat, etc.) is not allowed in PFS it is generally for one of four reasons. Sometimes it's multiple reasons
1. It is being held back as a special treat and will appear as a unique reward on a chronicle later.
2. The mechanics are confusing or conflict with established rules. It will be allowed once errata is available (either in a published book or the Campaign Clarifications document).
3. The material is not a good fit for either the Pathfinder Society or for the structure of Organized Play (such as evil archetypes or feats that allow you to betray your allies).
4. The material is too powerful in relation to existing material.The fourth reason is by far the most debatable and most contentious. In a large part "too powerful" is in the eye of the beholder. Unless the new material gives added advantages but otherwise is exactly identical to something previously published it is not possible to make strict comparisons. Even then there is a sizable contingent of messageboard posters who do not consider any Paizo-published material "too powerful."
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I have seen a couple of Occultists, and they were all quite strong, so I am not sure if that class really needs a boost.
A lot of people avoid some of the more complicated occult classes since it is tough to actually read most of them, once you start building them (even easier with something like Herolab) they are actually not that hard to play, but the barrier to entry has hardness 50.
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Sometimes things get banned because they are too strong, sometimes they get banned because some things need clarification and somethings they are just not a good fit for organized play.
Looking at the option in question, it looks like a relatively huge boost for the class without a really significant cost, even the relatively minor ability to get combat feats can be really good (playing a brawler taught be that).
Considering that the class already gets bane and other spells, the total might just have been a bit too good, at least considering the challenges you see in this campaign.
My advice would be to enjoy the base occultist, it is a fun class and depending on your playstyle can fill a number of roles.
I would love the reasoning behind it. Heck if nothing else allow it with a clause (aka must hold/ use shield)
That is already the case:
...
To use a panoply’s resonant
power or any of its focus powers, the occultist must select
and invest mental focus into the associated implements that
day. A single bearer must hold all the panoply’s associated
implements to gain the panoply’s resonant power, and
the occultist counts the total number of points of mental
focus invested among all of the associated implements to
determine the resonant power’s effect
I have also missed the occasional archetype and argued to make it legal, it didn't work out and cost a lot of time.
A quick google search leads me to believe that the option is rather popular, and the popular options tend to be among the more powerful options.While I can't tell you that the power level was the deciding factor, I appreciate the idea that power creep needs to be somewhat limited to make sure that the game keeps being welcoming to new players, while still providing challenges to experienced players.
Yeah never seen anyone in my area play it. My worry is bane is the only way to boost accuracy. When you look at a shaman or inquisitor they have bane and then divine favor and heck at least one has heroism. Then on top of that the only way to be semi competent in combat is to focus in transmutation. I kinda think the panoply is popular just for the accuracy boost.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Yeah never seen anyone in my area play it. My worry is bane is the only way to boost accuracy. When you look at a shaman or inquisitor they have bane and then divine favor and heck at least one has heroism. Then on top of that the only way to be semi competent in combat is to focus in transmutation. I kinda think the panoply is popular just for the accuracy boost.
The class works fairly well in combat as though it's hard to give a build given that the way you can build it out varies drastically. The only combat build left on it that I tentatively want to try is the weird take on the arcane archer.
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Venture-Captain, Texas—Austin
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I mean, occultist also has a free belt of STR, Dex, or Con and a free cloak of resistance, which could easily be money funneled into a better weapon earlier.
I have seen several occultists do well in melee combat with out trappings of the warrior both in PFS and home games. Sure you won't be hitting with the accuracy of a fighter, but you will be able to keep up with the enemies.
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Yeah never seen anyone in my area play it. My worry is bane is the only way to boost accuracy.
Other accuracy boosting Occultist powers:
1. Sudden Insight divination base focus power.
2. Inspired Assault enchantment focus power.
3. Physical Enhancement transmutation resonant power.
4. Quickness transmutation focus power (+1)
5. Unseen illusion focus power (flatfooted)
6. Necromantic Servant necromancy focus power (flanking buddy)
7. Servitor conjuration base focus power (flanking buddy)
8. Shadow Beast illusion focus power (flanking buddy)
And of course the Haunt Collector archetype provides a great accuracy/damage boost if you take the Champion option. Putting full BAB on top of all these options, plus 6th level casting, would be a bit much.
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At a glance, the issue with trapping of the warrior is likely that it’s not an increase in accuracy, but rather an increase in BAB and almost everything that comes with that. Meaning extra attacks, extra power attack damage, etc. That is an ability that not very many classes/archetypes have. Monk is one of the few, and Monk is not a spellcaster. It’s also an ability that was removed from the Warpriest after the playtest, because it was determined to be too powerful on a 6-level spellcasting class, which the Occultist also is.
If it were, say, an insight bonus to attack every 4 levels, then it wouldn’t be a big deal. Plenty of classes have something like that. But effectively always increasing BAB is my guess at what kept it from being legal.
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I'm still waiting and hoping that the WorldScape comic archetypes- Sword Devil (Ranger), Warlord (Fighter), & Jungle Lord (Ranger) get okayed for legal play.
Sword Devil could still use a few tweaks as some of the parent class abilities are moot with archetype overlap, but having another "Challenge" esque class would be fun.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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As Xenocrat says, there are a lot of ways for the Occultist to boost accuracy, and as Milan says, "free" equipment. I don't think they need a boost. If they did, it'd be the first class to get two-third spellcasting on a full-BAB class. That's just a combination you don't want. And yeah, as other people have said, full BAB means all that BAB goodness, such as Power Attack and iteratives. I'd say the Occultist is fine as it is.
I would love the reasoning behind it. Heck if nothing else allow it with a clause (aka must hold/ use shield)That is already the case:
...
To use a panoply’s resonant
power or any of its focus powers, the occultist must select
and invest mental focus into the associated implements that
day. A single bearer must hold all the panoply’s associated
implements to gain the panoply’s resonant power, and
the occultist counts the total number of points of mental
focus invested among all of the associated implements to
determine the resonant power’s effect
I think this is another case of Paizo's ambiguous use of "holding" (vs. "wielding" and such) I pretty much asked the same question when I made my Tome Eater, whose implement is a single book. The conclusion to that was that it's basically like a holy symbol, I need to present and/or hold it when using it, but otherwise doesn't occupy the hand slot constantly. I could for instance wield a two-handed weapon, only releasing one hand when presenting the book, then quickly tucking it away as a no action and regripping my two-hander, just like a holy symbol when channeling energy, for instance.
Also, one of the other panoplies (the Mage's Paraphernalia) require a robe, a crystal ball, and a wand. You can't "hold" all of these at the same time, if they require a separate hand for each of them. It's also pretty silly to constantly be carrying a robe around in one hand. The whole idea of the implements is that they're supposed to be things carried or worn on the person, not necessarily readily in hand all the time.Why Mavaro, the iconic Occultist does so then (he's constantly holding a skull and wielding a longsword in the other hand), is a mystery. But pregens break rules all the time, either for flavour reasons or due to error (having Weapon Focus with BAB 0, for instance).
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I'm just over here wishing they would fix the Shifter errata to apply to all the archetypes...the Oozemorph in particular still suffers from the 1 use of its shifting ability per day until after level 4, loses the ability for it's primary natural weapon attacks to ever count as magical or penetrate DR, and a handful of other things that cripple it for PFS play.