| Dryad Knotwood |
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WARNING: This post contains what may be considered to be spoilers about all or part of three adventure paths (RotR, RotR2 and WotR) as well as a Pathfinder Society Module (The Waking Rune) and maybe a few other things. Nothing is going to be behind spoiler tags as this is the warning and the point of the thread is to help organize information and possibly find anything that may have been missed in one person's perusing of the forums and various modules, campaign settings and adventure paths.
So, with the release of Return of the Runelords, we know the names of all of the Runelords and their positions as well as the levels of 5 of the 7 final Runelords, the last two of whom received partial stats. Through this, Rise of the Runelords, Wrath of the Righteous: Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth, a few other media, and a few comments from James Jacobs and other Paizo developers, we can roughly estimate the levels and possibly CR's of the remaining 20+ Runelords. Of course, these estimated levels are made based on the assumptions of minimum necessary power, that all Runelords could cast 9th level spells, and published CR's are adjusted based on PC Wealth = Cr +1, 25 PB = CR +1, and Pure-Blooded Azlanti = CR +1 (I just can't remember where I saw developer comments that support said).
First, we have these stats for sure:
Sorshen - Lust - Enchanter 20/Trickster 10 (CR 27)
Alaznist - Wrath - Evoker 20/Archmage 4 (CR 24)
Alderpash - Wrath - Lich Evoker 19 (CR 23)
Karzoug - Greed - Transmuter 20 (CR 22)
Angothane - Wrath - Evoker 18 (CR 20)
Belimarius - Envy - Abjurer 18 (CR 20)
Krune - Sloth - Conjurer 17 (CR 19)
Second, we have these partial stats:
Xanderghul - Pride - Illusionist 15 (CR 17)
Zutha - Gluttony - Lich Necromancer 13 (CR 15)
Thybidos - Wrath - Unique Undead (CR 10)
Xanderghul has been estimated by James Jacobs to be about CR 28 with 20 levels and 10 mythic tiers of Archmage
Zutha is estimated to be weaker than Karzoug, but stronger than Belimarius and upon reverse engineering his stat array can be shown to have a 15 PB, so he should be a Lich Necromancer 18 with PC wealth (CR 21 (17 base + 1 azlanti + 1 wealth +2 lich))
Then we have the various acts of Runelords that may help estimate their strengths:
Kaliphesta - Gluttony - Apprentice of Xin
Kaladurnae - Greed - Apprentice of Xin
Naaft - Envy - Apprentice of Xin
Gimmel - Greed - Summoned the Oliphaunt of Jandelay which requires either an artifact or mythic power
Xirie - Sloth - 50% chance of defeating Angothane when Angothane has less than full hp and has what could be construed as an ambush round
Haphrama - Greed - Killed by Karzoug with the aid of Leng
Tannaris - Envy - Died in a fight with his son by the same name and became part of the Alara'hai, the Sword of Envy
Atharend - Gluttony - Killed by Xanderghul
Jurah - Envy - Killed by Xanderghul
Goparlis - Gluttony - Killed by Zutha while distracted by the theft of the Alara'hai, the Sword of Gluttony
Ivarinna - Sloth - Abdicated peacefully to Krune
Ivamura - Envy - Executed by Azlant during the Azlant-Thassilon war
Xiren - Wrath - Took over after Xanderghul killed Angothane and was killed by Thybidos
Thybidos - Wrath - Killed and turned into a unique undead by Alaznist until he apologizes to Xiren
Phirandi - Envy - Encased in a coffin of force by Belimarius after having his magical protections stripped away
Aethusa - Gluttony - Took over after Xanderghul killed Atharend
Ilthyrius - Sloth - Took over after Xirie was killed by Angothane
Chalsardra - Envy - Took over after Xanderghul killed Jurah
The remaining Runelords have no details to help determine how strong they were.
Based on the above details, we can assume that the following are likely:
Xirie is about equal to Angothane in power, so Conjurer 18 (CR 20)
Gimmel is mythic and since he may have been killed by Ligniya, probably wasn't more than 1 or 2 tiers into mythic, so Transmuter 17/Archmage 1 (CR 20)
Haphrama was probably weaker than Karzoug, so possibly Transmuter 19 (CR 21)
Goparlis was weaker than Zutha, but could reasonably be the same level with a lower CR, so Necromancer 18 (CR 20)
Thybidos was weaker than Alaznist and stronger than Xirie, so Evoker 18 (CR 20)
Xiren was weaker than Thybidos, so Evoker 17 (CR 19)
Phirandi was weaker than Belimarius, so Abjurer 17 (CR 19)
Kaliphesta, Kaladurnae, and Naaft were apprentices of Xin and probably at least as powerful as their fellow apprentices, so Necromancer 18, Transmuter 18, and Abjurer 18 respectively
The rest don't have helpful details as being killed by Xanderghul allows for anything from level 17 to 20, same with being executed by Azlant, as does killing and being killed by an individual of unknown level.
Thus with these details, the estimated/published levels of the Runelords are:
Xanderghul - Pride - Illusionist 20/Archmage 10 (CR 28)
Sorshen - Lust - Enchanter 20/Trickster 10 (CR 27)
Alaznist - Wrath - Evoker 20/Archmage 4 (CR 24)
Alderpash - Wrath - Lich Evoker 19 (CR 23)
Karzoug - Greed - Transmuter 20 (CR 22)
Haphrama - Greed - Transmuter 19 (CR 21)
Zutha - Gluttony - Lich Necromancer 18 (CR 21)
Kaliphesta - Gluttony - Necromancer 18+ (CR 20+)
Kaladurnae - Greed - Transmuter 18+ (CR 20+)
Naaft - Envy - Abjurer 18+ (CR 20+)
Xirie - Sloth - Conjurer 18 (CR 20)
Angothane - Wrath - Evoker 18 (CR 20)
Thybidos - Wrath -Evoker 18 (CR 20)
Goparlis - Gluttony - Necromancer 18 (CR 20)
Belimarius - Envy - Abjurer 18 (CR 20)
Gimmel - Greed - Transmuter 17/Archmage 1 (CR 20)
Xiren - Wrath - Evoker 17 (CR 19)
Phirandi - Envy - Abjurer 17 (CR 19)
Krune - Sloth - Conjurer 17 (CR 19)
The remaining Runelords are level 17+ (CR 19+) as their levels cannot be reasonably ascertained based on the data available.
Thoughts?
| AshVandal |
AshVandal wrote:Would you be willing to, and if so please do, rank the following NPC characters at the height of their power (regardless of their current living/dead/absent status, and regardless of whether they would be bbeg) in order of personal power in terms of “end of AP bbeg” from greatest to least:
Xanderghul
Baba Yaga
Nex
Geb
Tar Baphon
Alaznist
Jatembe
Sorshen
Karzoug
ZuthaMy preference, which isn't the same as canon, since I don't make that decision on my own, would be:
Alaznist
Baba Yaga
Xanderghul
Sorshen
Jatembe
Tar Baphon
Nex
Geb
Karzoug
Zutha
The above conversation took place in the Ask James thread and I thought you should know in case you didn't see it. It really doesn't change anything you wrote in your estimation but I thought you should know that according to the Anniversary Edition of RioR, Karzoug is a CR 21 creature. I don't have access to the original print so I'm not sure if that's what you were basing your estimation off of but you listed Karzoug as CR 22. But that means that you would also have to downgrade your estimation of Zutha, to probably a CR 19 or 20. Ignore the part about Alaznist, unless you want to account for the follow-up points James made about that particular ranking.
| Dryad Knotwood |
I saw it and don't think it changes anything. So my estimations on the final Runelords CR's is based on the inclusion of a factor not included in the original statblock of Karzoug (and Krune): being pure-blooded Azlanti.
Without the above factor, Karzoug ends up as CR 21 (19 (20 levels) + 2 (Wealth + 25 PB)), yes. And Krune ends up as CR 18 (16 (17 levels) + 2 (Wealth + 25 PB. With the above factor of being pure-blooded Azlanti, which is included in Xanderghul's, Sorshen's, Alaznist's, and Belimarius' statblocks, the two of them get pushed up to CR 22 and CR 19 respectively. I'm also not factoring in Alaznist's explosive growth of power after emerging from the runewell and killing Xanderghul as the list is more meant to gauge levels of power during the time of Thassilon. ... probably should have included that last part in the first post for ease of understanding.
| Yqatuba |
It would make the most sense to me for pride to be the most powerful (as I imagine he thinks he's better than all the other runelords) and for sloth to be the lowest level (he's too lazy to do stuff to get more powerful).