Hello, i would like to create an Arcane trickster with one of those two classes, but i can't decide which one ist best for the job: with the Slayer i will have a better BAB and i can be better in meele, but Unchained Rogue has many great options like debility injury or finess damage. For the magic part i want to choose or a sorcerer (sage) or an arcanist, but this is not important now. The levels will be 6 of the sneaky class, 4 of the arcane class and the rest Arcane trickster. So the question is: Slayer or Unchained Rogue? Thank you and sorry for my bad English :)
Personally i don't like wizards. Don't get me wrong they are powerful and everything, but i prefer to play a sorcerer or an arcanist for full arcane casters.
Why i want to be an Arcane Trickster? Because i like the idea of a thief with magic support, but not so focus on arcane power like a rogue 1/wizard 3/AT 10 build. For this reason i prefer to make a Rogue-Slayer 6/ Sorcerer-Arcanist 4 build to take the AT.
I prefer the sneaky part over the arcane part, but i don't want play an Eldritch Scoundrel yet. I don't want to make power play or be the best at "magic sneak attack". I just want to have fun with that build, but i can't decide between the Unchained Rogue and the Slayer, because i like both. So i want to read some opinions of those two classes in that kind of build.
Thats all.
Ignoring the trickster component, the unchained rogue is generally better as a finesse build, and the slayer is better as a strength, ranged or switch hitter build.
At 6th level the difference in BAB between a rogue and slayer is only +2. You lose 1d6 of sneak attack, but gain +3 on fortitude saves. You also gain proficiency with martial weapons.
If you go unchained rogue you gain weapon finesse, DEX to damage and debilitating injury. You also gain trapfinding, evasion, danger sense and uncanny dodge, and one skill unlock. Technically both classes have the same number of talents, but the slayer may use up some gaining abilities the rogue gets free.
Since you have to deal with arcane spell failure form armor you will probably go with little or no armor. If that is the case you will probably focus on DEX over STR. in that case the unchained rogue will actually have a better chance to hit than the slayer. This pretty much eliminates any benefit of the slayers greater BAB. So unless you are going for a high STR brute the unchained rogue will actually have better combat ability than the rogue.
Another thing to consider is how soon do you want to enter arcane trickster? With an unchained rogue you could become an arcane trickster as soon as 6th level with accomplished sneak attacker. Without it you will need to be at least 8th level. If you go slayer your entry points are 8th with accomplished sneak attacker or 11th without it.
The last thing to consider is the fact that the unchained rogue talents are often a lot better than the chained versions. If you can take the unchained versions with the slayer this is not an issue, but otherwise it is worth taking into account.
If you do go with unchained rogue consider playing a half elf. Since you are going to be multiclassing getting favored class bonus for both classes is good. Also take ancestral arms and pick up elven curve blade. Getting 1.5 DEX to damage is going to mean you will do decent damage even when you are not sneak attacking. This will be especially helpful at the early levels.
You can become an arcane trickster with one level of rogue and accomplished sneak attacker.
MS, you neglected some slayer class abilities. At level 6, the slayer has +2 BAB, but it also has a +2 to attack and damage from studied target. And that bonus also applies to some useful roguish skills, especially at level 7.
But mostly, the slayer is your choice if you want to go with a ranged trickster build. If you want a melee trickster, then you should probably go urogue.
I guess the question might become which is better: a ranged trickster or a melee trickster?
Hello, i would like to create an Arcane trickster with one of those two classes, but i can't decide which one ist best for the job: with the Slayer i will have a better BAB and i can be better in meele, but Unchained Rogue has many great options like debility injury or finess damage. For the magic part i want to choose or a sorcerer (sage) or an arcanist, but this is not important now. The levels will be 6 of the sneaky class, 4 of the arcane class and the rest Arcane trickster. So the question is: Slayer or Unchained Rogue? Thank you and sorry for my bad English :)
Neither, IMO. The arcane trickster doesn't have the BAB to make a good melee combatant. Arcane trickster works best (IMO) as a ranged touch blaster. Sylph (with the Cloud Gazer feat) brawler (snakebite striker) 1/arcanist 4 (take Accomplished Sneak Attacker)/arcane trickster 10/arcanist +5 using obscuring mist to consistently make ranged Sneak Attacks.
If you want an "arcane trickster" that is decent in melee combat, then the eldritch scoundrel rogue archetype (possibly with a dip in another class to pick up armor use and better weapons) may be worth looking at. Occultist 2 (Trappings of the Warrior panoply; weapon and either a buckler or a quickdraw light shield)/rogue (eldritch scoundrel) 18 with the Magical Knack (eldritch scoundrel) trait and the Arcane Armor Training feat (wear mithral chain shirt or mithral kikko) might work for what you want to do.
I did neglect studied target but it does not change much. The unchained rogue is still going to be more accurate unless the character maxes out STR at the expense of DEX. An arcane trickster needs to have a good INT; all characters need a decent CON. DEX is too important to a rogue like character to be ignored. Many of the core rogue skills are based on DEX. It increases your initiative allowing you to catch your opponent flat footed. It increases your AC and reflex saves. While a slayer could take weapon finesse and one of the feats to get DEX to damage that is using up two feats to get what a rogue gets as a class ability. So unless the character is going to max out STR at the expense of DEX the unchained rogue is still a better choice.
Since the character is not going to go above 6th level in the non-spell casting class what they get at 7th level is a moot point.
Don’t get me wrong I think the slayer is a great class and if the player wanted to play a combat focused rogue it would be the top choice. But for a starting point for an arcane trickster it does not work as well.
The arcane trickster doesn't have the BAB to make a good melee combatant....The whole trick to being a rogue is to demolish your opponent's defenses before piling in your attacks. Merely being invisible not only grants you a +2, but denies your opponent his dex bonus to AC -- and that combination will usually be more than the BAB disparity to attack. (Where the Arcane Trickster fears melee is in his poor Fort save and poor hitpoints; if he's caught by a full-attack from a poison monster, he's screwed unless his AC is out of this world.)
...works best (IMO) as a ranged touch blaster.
Before Greater Invis, definitely.
I don't know about Arcane Trickster, but I'm currently playing both a URogue (Shadow Walker) and a Slayer. URogue is building up towards Shadowdancer prestige class, and to be honest, I feel she is slower to 'come online', as they say. She really won't be as strong a build until lvl 8 or so. I'm not a powergamer though, I'm more excited to see a character concept come into its full realization. Her strengths right now are Skills based, scouting and sneaking around, sense motive, bluff, etc.
The Slayer is already slaying it at lvl 4, is definitely more geared toward combat, with twf, improved feint, etc. she's more versatile, with more combat options and means of getting sneak damage. In the end, her build is focused more on twf and critfishing, and will include levels in fighter for the extra feats.
Thing is, both classes have so many options and possible builds, so it's hard to say. However, in my experience, the slayer is mixing it up on the front lines, while the rogue is trying to stay one step ahead and on the fringes.
My main problem with the slayer, in general, is that there isn’t much to look forward to, after level 7. You’ll continue to get better at what you already do, but there’s no more horizon or excitement for me.
But that does leave it as a good candidate for multiclasssing and prestige classes.
Thank you all for your answers. I think that i will go with the URogue!
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/snowball/
Make sure you use the People of the North version, not the Ultimate Wilderness version.
URogue3/Wizard3 (or Exploiter Wiz)/AT1 is a solid opening to Arcane Trickster.
Fastest AT-entry build is URogue1/Wiz3/AT1 with Accomplished SnA feat though.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/snowball/
Make sure you use the People of the North version, not the Ultimate Wilderness version.
officially, you're supposed to used the latest printed version, as its updated and balanced. so just so you're aware, using the older version would be a houserule.
Fastest AT-entry build is URogue1/Wiz3/AT1 with Accomplished SnA feat though.
Since we're on the subject....
Trade-offs going from uRogue to Brawler [Snakebite striker]:
* lose 4 skill points
* lose Weapon Finesse
* lose Trapfinding
* lose rogue weapon proficiencies (note that AT does not supply them)
* lose Intimidate, Perform, Slight of Hand, and Use Magic Device as class skills (neither AT nor Snakebite have them)
* gain BAB+1
* gain 2 hitpoints (if Brawler at 1st, else HP+1)
* gain brawler weapon proficiencies
* gain light armor proficiency
* gain +2 Fortitude save
If you're allowed 3rd Party content you should check out the Trickster class from Kobold Press. It melds magic with skills in a pretty good manner.