Are the horns just for show or what?
What about the green dragon? It's horn is basically just like a rhino's so it seems like it would work.
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In the case of the green dragon, one could either poke your with it's nose or it could bite you. I can see why most green dragons would choose to bite you.
I think the horns are just for show, though. It's clear just by looking at them that dragons didn't evolve, so whatever designed them *cough* Wayne Reynolds *cough* must have thought the horns looked sick.
And, they were right. The horns do look cool.
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Some dragons do have gore attacks. In PF primal dragons, in D&D 3.5 a variant for all kinds of dragon (Xoistaal? I'm almost certainly misspelling that. From Eberron.)
The others probably aren't quite coordinated enough to add a gore attack to their bite/claw/claw/wing/wing/tail slap/shake it all about attack routine.
Is there any monster with both bite and gore?
I thought you could only get one natural attack per appendage. Like you can have slam OR claw, not both.
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I think the horns are just for show, though. It's clear just by looking at them that dragons didn't evolve, so whatever designed them *cough* Wayne Reynolds *cough* must have thought the horns looked sick.
Now now! What if the lady-dragons also think the horns look sick? Sexual Selection is an entire array of pointless traits that evolved specifically to attract mates.
Examples:
* Peacock
* Weird bird dances
* Lion manes
* And yes, even horns!
Now.. you'd have to decide whether female dragons have horns or not to decide if it's really Sexual Selection or not, according to that final link. Considering that, maybe they don't have Gore attacks because the females *don't* have horns?!
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Of course, this is more about being a pedant than thinking this is actually the reason they lack Gore attacks.
As dommman47 hinted, gore attacks are primitive and inelegant. No self-respecting (aka any) dragon would stoop to such barbarism.
Now.. you'd have to decide whether female dragons have horns or not to decide if it's really Sexual Selection or not, according to that final link.
Unless the male dragons also think that horns look sick.
Gargoyles have both. ^_^
I'm trying to imagine what that looks like . . .
Gargoyles have both. ^_^I'm trying to imagine what that looks like . . .
I would imagine it Gores, pulls up, then bites. Certainly biting first makes it less elegant.
Are the horns just for show or what?If you are the GM, just add in an appropriate gore attack. One new natural attack isn't going to alter the CR of a dragon.
Personally, I think finding a situation where it would be used is going to be rare.
Huh?
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Now.. you'd have to decide whether female dragons have horns or not to decide if it's really Sexual Selection or not, according to that final link.Unless the male dragons also think that horns look sick.
Gargoyles have both. ^_^I'm trying to imagine what that looks like . . .
It just... really gets in there, you know? It's pretty gross.
Huh?You don't give me a lot to go on, here. I'll speculate:
1 - You think adding the option for single new natural attack would alter the CR. I disagree.
2 - You think a GM can't do that at all. I disagree.
It's the first. Another natural attack means that srength, power attack, arcane strike, any spells the dragon's cast, and all it's other damage multipliers get multiplied another time. That's not a small increase in power.
Unless you were saying that the dragon would have to choose between the bite and the gore?
It's the first. Another natural attack means that srength, power attack, arcane strike, any spells the dragon's cast, and all it's other damage multipliers get multiplied another time. That's not a small increase in power.
Looking at an Adult Red Dragon,
Given that it already has 6 attacks, 7 with haste and a fire aura as it's melee; increasing it's power by less than 1/7th (14%) isn't going to be a big deal, given that its defenses and everything else won't change.
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He's also saying that Dragons may have better things to do than be sitting in melee full-attacking. They may be fine at doing that, but they can also fly 45ft away, blasting massive cones of fire or other such nonsense.
Among myriad other things; adding a small increase to their full-attack isn't worthy of a CR change at that point. It is at level 2 or 3 maybe, but even then there are CR 3 creatures with 5 attacks (Grick) and CR 3 creatures with 1 attack (Ogre)
That's what I thought but the gargoyle seems to set precedent otherwise.
I'm pretty sure you can't have claws and slams simultaneously though.
ninja'd.
Aren't natural attacks normally limited to one per limb? Gore and Bite are both "Head" attacks, so having one generally precludes having the other.
Gargoyles think otherwise. Given that the attacks are all listed under a full attack.
Notice that it could've been worded like the Skeleton where it has two different full attacks, one with Gore and one with Bite.
Given that these creatures have both in their attacks and no one has made a rules citation saying otherwise; yes you can do both*
*pending someone posting rules that contradict this
As another example, imperial dragons (not primal, I misremembered) get both a gore and a bite attack and list both in a full attack.
I mean, you can make them look like giant rabbits if you want to.
GM power, lot of freedom.
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and instead of gore they would get a nose twitch attack.
on a side note. Based on a lot of the artwork I've seen. I think a black dragon would have a hard time biting anything without goring it first.
Tail slap would be a bit odd, though.