Customer Service & Community Manager
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
That is indeed much appreciated and it is in fact often an automatic feature of many forums. It should probably be considered for implementation here, too, if it hasn't already.
Is it possible with this boards software to auto-hide closed threads? Or to opt into such? Since I know they will invariably fall down the forum, but at least in the near term it would reduce clutter.
The software we use for the forums is custom made. If I understand my Paizo history correctly, at the time it was created it was extremely difficult to get pre built forum software that integrated forums and webstore in the ways that we needed. Features currently in existence on our forums are minimal. I'm trying not to ask for too much right now as my understanding is that this is an area that should expect a major overhaul eventually, possibly utilizing pre-built forum software with an significant amount of additional features.
That being said, one feature that just dropped which y'all will not see but which I believe will help the forums immensely is that we now have the ability to sort and filter the flag queue! This means I can do things such as get a view of all the flags in one thread. Previously if there were multiple flags over several pages it was very difficult to find each of these as the queue would only display a truncated snapshot of flags from each thread with flagged posts in it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It is awesome that you've been given better tools to do your job! But you should't be shy about asking for those quality of life improvements. The worst they'll do is say no, and more likely "not yet".
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Looks like another thread closed. You would think Director of Game design has more important things to do than to arbitrarily close topics under some thin shade of derailment.
Director of Game Design
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
As I've mentioned elsewhere, these boards in particular are here to help us gather feedback. Threads that have strayed from their intent no longer serve our goals and can get in the way of us finding useful commentary.
I'm locking a bit more liberally than before, just to keep things moving along. There are plenty of other places on the forums for wandering commentary.
The latest close had maybe 9 posts out of 8 pages about whether or not it's a board game or not. And still on topic discussion happening concurrently.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well, at least that way my (also locked, booo!) thread stays the biggest thread of the entire playtest. With double the posts of every blog post to boot.
Yeah, I'm just a little bit smug. ^^
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Personally I wish more posters were put on bans, because it seems like too much energy is being spent on them by devs. Locking threads is just one result, but despite it being clear (in some case self admitted) that these are not productive commenters or playtesters, a disproportionate amount of effort and dev posts ends up directly or indirectly focused on this small group of posters.
This sounds like one of those irregular verbs:
I post critical, but constructive, remarks.
You are disruptive.
He/she is a troll who needs to be banned for the good of the community.
Be careful what you ask for - everyone likes modding until theirs is the comment or post that gets modded :-)
The latest close had maybe 9 posts out of 8 pages about whether or not it's a board game or not. And still on topic discussion happening concurrently.
Yes, but that other stuff was way off topic. As one of the people engaged in it, I found it interesting. But I can see why it's of no use to Paizo.
So if it's locked, no big deal. Given the option, I'd much rather Jason read my feedback on magic or how our last playtest session went than my opinions on what a board game is. :)
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Personally I wish more posters were put on bans, because it seems like too much energy is being spent on them by devs. Locking threads is just one result, but despite it being clear (in some case self admitted) that these are not productive commenters or playtesters, a disproportionate amount of effort and dev posts ends up directly or indirectly focused on this small group of posters.This sounds like one of those irregular verbs:
I post critical, but constructive, remarks.
You are disruptive.
He/she is a troll who needs to be banned for the good of the community.
Be careful what you ask for - everyone likes modding until theirs is the comment or post that gets modded :-)
Slippery Slope Fallacy.
Pretty much every single post of mine that has been deleted was due to engaging with a post that was also deleted. I'd rather the Moderators be able to Moderate and maintain the forums rather than let it continue to devolve into rabid unpleasantness.
I say, as much as possible, let the First Amendment dictate which threads are good.Okay, so we can agree that the U.S. Government cannot lock threads on Paizo's forum or punish people for making bad posts, but this is not a restriction on Paizo mods.
I'm not American but my understanding of it is that it only protects you against criminal liability, it doesn't give you the right to say anything you like without consequences.
At the time the constitution was written you could get put to death in some countries for insulting the King.
Paizo are also under no obligation to provide anyone with a soap box or megaphone. You have the right to say anything you like they have the right to boot you off of their forums even for silly things such as liking the colour red.
Using an absurd example here your politician views are covered by the human rights act, put simply you could admit to being a Nazi in the workplace and your boss would be in the wrong for firing you for it. It doesn't mean you can express those views in the workplace especially if you violate other laws such as bullying and harassment.
IN the USA you have the right to freedom of expression, it doesn't protect you form the consequences of that however such as losing your job, it just means you won't do criminal time over it or be deprived of life or liberty AFAIK.
I appreciate the Closed tag. Its good to know what threads I shouldn't waste my time with.
Actually, I find those threads to be ones that I want to read - not necessarily for the derailments, but more for the 'unpopular' opinions or taboo subjects that maybe Paizo doesn't really want to deal with in the playtest.
Perfect example: relatively recent posting from a DM whose group was dropping out. Garnered a few replies and then, blamo, closed. For me, I think, "why is that"? What posting sin was committed? Did it derail? Was there insightful info there that just got deep sixed? So, I have to go look. Sometimes it's too bad it got locked - there were valid points therein that some won't be bothered to take a look at.
Playtesting needs to critically examine both the good and bad aspects of the game. Things that work, things that don't. I get closing threads that burn up a lot of moderator time - but others?
My sense is things have become more than a bit heavy-handed, frankly. I'm also in the 'surprised this thread hasn't been locked, too camp, because 'irony'.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I appreciate the Closed tag. Its good to know what threads I shouldn't waste my time with.Actually, I find those threads to be ones that I want to read - not necessarily for the derailments, but more for the 'unpopular' opinions or taboo subjects that maybe Paizo doesn't really want to deal with in the playtest.
Perfect example: relatively recent posting from a DM whose group was dropping out. Garnered a few replies and then, blamo, closed. For me, I think, "why is that"? What posting sin was committed? Did it derail? Was there insightful info there that just got deep sixed? So, I have to go look. Sometimes it's too bad it got locked - there were valid points therein that some won't be bothered to take a look at.
Playtesting needs to critically examine both the good and bad aspects of the game. Things that work, things that don't. I get closing threads that burn up a lot of moderator time - but others?
My sense is things have become more than a bit heavy-handed, frankly. I'm also in the 'surprised this thread hasn't been locked, too camp, because 'irony'.
The fact that no designer engaged in a "what should we do in order for you not to quit?" discussion does not mean that the points weren't taken into consideration.
And if the post amounts to "I quit because you kicked my puppy, also I hope you go bankrupt, no goodbye from me, also I'm selling my books and moving to 5e, I HOPE IT HURTS YOU AS MUCH AS IT HURTS ME, YOU MONSTERS!", the only valid data arising from it is that the poster is immature.
Actually, I find those threads to be ones that I want to read - not necessarily for the derailments, but more for the 'unpopular' opinions or taboo subjects that maybe Paizo doesn't really want to deal with in the playtest.
Perfect example: relatively recent posting from a DM whose group was dropping out. Garnered a few replies and then, blamo, closed. For me, I think, "why is that"? What posting sin was committed? Did it derail? Was there insightful info there that just got deep sixed? So, I have to go look. Sometimes it's too bad it got locked - there were valid points therein that some won't be bothered to take a look at.
Judging by Jason's recent post/lock history, I strongly suspect that every topic announcing someone is leaving the playtest is being locked.
I even more strongly suspect that this is a preemptive measure because the first few such threads became total dumpster fires.
I imagine Jason's logic goes that someone announcing they are leaving the playtest is good data, but other people's replies to that person are unlikely to be useful data. Thus, such a thread has served its purpose in its first post, and doesn't need to continue.
Obviously I'm not Jason, this is just me guessing, but it fits the pattern so far. :)
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It also chills the conversation. If people are quitting and no longer posting about it, it looks like everything's fine.
Personally, I'd prefer everyone that wants get their say on why their leaving the playtest, especially if what they have to say is well-reasoned and communicated. If someone creates a post that's well-reasoned and communicated, then it doesn't help when others who disagree jump in to say things like, "maybe you're not cut out for playtesting," or "playtests aren't supposed to be fun, they're supposed to stress the rules."
I get locking a feat before it turns into a dumpster fire. It doesn't have to turn into a dumpster fire though. Let people say their peace and move on, even if you disagree.
-Skeld
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The fact that no designer engaged in a "what should we do in order for you not to quit?" discussion does not mean that the points weren't taken into consideration.Exactly.
Some of these posts/threads make me think that some folks have never worked for a living.
Which is of course a totally non-incendiary thing to say and helps the climate of conversation on the boards immensely.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It also chills the conversation. If people are quitting and no longer posting about it, it looks like everything's fine.
It looks a ton like censorship and message massaging. That's the problem. It is what finally prompted me leaving the playtest, because it made me feel that Paizo was done listening to negative feedback and wanted to only focus on the people who already like the playtest version as it is now.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
From what I've gathered, Paizo's mods are locking unproductive threads to make it easier for the developers to find and focus on useful feedback and criticism.
If people feel like they're not being listened to and do not like their threads being locked... maybe set up a messageboard offsite to continue your discussion and/or theorycraft? Like ProBoards, Boardhost, Bravenet, or one of the other free services.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It looks a ton like censorship and message massaging. That's the problem. It is what finally prompted me leaving the playtest, because it made me feel that Paizo was done listening to negative feedback and wanted to only focus on the people who already like the playtest version as it is now.
I just wanted to throw out that I don't get that impression while most of my criticisms of PF2 mirror yours.
I do think that Paizo is done listening to our negative feedback. The topic of overall power level isn't an open one. That might seem like they're done listening to all negative feedback, but I honestly believe it's specific to our complaints. Jason and the gang are very aware of our views and we don't have anything new to add.
It's a fine distinction, I grant.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
From what I've gathered, Paizo's mods are locking unproductive threads to make it easier for the developers to find and focus on useful feedback and criticism.
If people feel like they're not being listened to and do not like their threads being locked... maybe set up a messageboard offsite to continue your discussion and/or theorycraft? Like ProBoards, Boardhost, Bravenet, or one of the other free services.
I hesitate to suggest it as it might make extra work for the moderators, but there might be a place for an ongoing thread on this topic in Other topics or gamer life rather than in the playtest section (or perhaps even in a PF1 forum).
I think it's worth remembering that the playtest boards are primarily a tool for Paizo designers to gather data for the development of PF2. It kind of looks the same as all the other forums to us, but the purpose is very different.
Those threads about a group quitting the playtest often start usefully but spiral off into lots of people speculating about the proportions of the market who like it/don't like it, arguing with those who are leaving, agreeing with those who are leaving... I think it's exacerbated by the fact that it's often the same people making the majority of posts in the "we're stopping playtesting" (and rarely offering much they haven't said in earlier threads).
I can see why it's not useful to the design team. Perhaps a bit of catharsis would be useful for the community elsewhere.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
From what I've gathered, Paizo's mods are locking unproductive threads to make it easier for the developers to find and focus on useful feedback and criticism.
If people feel like they're not being listened to and do not like their threads being locked... maybe set up a messageboard offsite to continue your discussion and/or theorycraft? Like ProBoards, Boardhost, Bravenet, or one of the other free services.
I hesitate to suggest it as it might make extra work for the moderators, but there might be a place for an ongoing thread on this topic in Other topics or gamer life rather than in the playtest section (or perhaps even in a PF1 forum).
I think it's worth remembering that the playtest boards are primarily a tool for Paizo designers to gather data for the development of PF2. It kind of looks the same as all the other forums to us, but the purpose is very different.
Those threads about a group quitting the playtest often start usefully but spiral off into lots of people speculating about the proportions of the market who like it/don't like it, arguing with those who are leaving, agreeing with those who are leaving... I think it's exacerbated by the fact that it's often the same people making the majority of posts in the "we're stopping playtesting" (and rarely offering much they haven't said in earlier threads).
I can see why it's not useful to the design team. Perhaps a bit of catharsis would be useful for the community elsewhere.
Agreed. It's a lot like forking the kernel. Kirth Gersen did it with PF1E.
Sure, I think it's best if everyone interested continues to find holes & hiccups and possible fixes in the PF2E playtest rules and math, and does it in an open centralized location. But it looks like PF2E just isn't going to be some peoples's cup of tea for numerous reasons, which is fine. Rather than continually trying to change things that aren't going to change, it'd likely be more productive and less stressful to keep working on those parts (or the whole) outside of the official playtest framework and subforum. If the discussion isn't too heated, it could probably find a home here too on Paizo in a different subforum similar to Kirthfinder. For those who prefer their own moderation, there are always the other websites I linked above.