Spell Attacks

[Shain Edge]

In the spell attack description, it states that the touch attack uses the Spell Proficiency. So, I'm thinking, that it ALSO, because it uses the spell proficiency, and there is no other use for it, it also uses the prime attribute for the magic type. It isn't specific though.

[shroudb]

No.

Melee touch attacks are finesse though, so you can use either str or dex

Ranged touch is ranged, so you use dex.

This has been clarified.

Your spell proficiency just makes you an expert/master/legendary on said attacks (so +1/+2/+3)

And what do you mean it isn't used elsewhere?

Spell proficiency is what sets your spell DC which is arguably your most important feature.

[Shain Edge]

There is a spell attack roll as part of the Character sheet, that otherwise is not used at all.

[shroudb]

Shain Edge wrote:

There is a spell attack roll as part of the Character sheet, that otherwise is not used at all.

So?

Attack roll entry is only used for attacks.

Spell attack roll entry is used only for Spell attacks.

Why should this change the stat you use for an attack?

[Jason S]

All spell attacks should use the characters prime stat, especially considering that TAC is no longer a thing, it's no longer significantly lower than AC.

Just another problem I have with the new system. If they're going to keep it simple, then keep it simple.

[master_marshmallow]

I'd prefer TAC just get nixed entirely, and treat a failure as a touch attack. Thus a crit failure means no contact, and a regular failure is contact with no damage.

Would clean a lot of stuff up.

[Edge93]

Shain Edge wrote:

There is a spell attack roll as part of the Character sheet, that otherwise is not used at all.

If you're referring to Spell Rolls, that's for things like Dispel checks that specify they use a Spell Roll. It's a different thing than touch attacks.

[Strachan Fireblade]

It also refers to spells like Black Tentacles. Basically, any spell that creates an effect that can then attack independently of the wizard.

[Edge93]

master_marshmallow wrote:

I'd prefer TAC just get nixed entirely, and treat a failure as a touch attack. Thus a crit failure means no contact, and a regular failure is contact with no damage.

Would clean a lot of stuff up.

This would make touch attacks WAY too easy to land, given that the reason TAC was so easy to hit in 1E was that casters mostly had 1/2 BAB. Here as long as you have good Dex your to-hit with Touch is pretty good, and the small drop between AC and TAC is just a little boost that puts touch attack to-hit varying between Fighter hit chance and other martial hit chance. I can see the irritation and I kinda wish touch attacks for casters used casting mod (In which case abolishing TAC could be fair) but then we'd also lose the cool Ghost Touch Monk feat then.

But as it stands the current way of things isn't particularly complicated.

[orphias]

SPELL ATTACKS
Some spells require you to succeed at an attack roll to affect the target. This is usually because they require you to touch your target, precisely aim a ray, or otherwise make an accurate attack. Any attack you make is part of the spell’s Somatic Casting action.

Usually, such spells require a melee touch attack or a ranged touch attack. In both cases, make an attack roll and compare the result to the target’s TAC. Your proficiency modifier for a spell’s attack roll is the same as your proficiency modifier with spell rolls.

Spell attacks are unarmed, but they don’t apply any special benefits
from your weapons or unarmed attacks, nor do they deal any damage outside of what’s listed in the spell.

Melee touch attacks have the finesse trait (see page 182). On a
successful attack, your spell affects the target, and on a failure the spell is lost unless otherwise noted. Spells with a range of “touch” always require a melee touch attack when used against an unwilling target, but not when used on a willing or unconscious target.

Some spells require a normal melee attack or ranged attack instead of a touch attack. These work as described above, but they target AC instead of TAC.

The above is straight from the Rulebook. From reading this your attack roles are all based on your casting attribute. Why do you think attacks should be based on either str or dex?

[Shain Edge]

5th Edition D&D use the caster's prime attribute to attack with their spells. Finesse only allows you to use Dexterity rather then the strength attribute, not require you to use Dexterity. (Which means by RAW, you can use STR to attack with spells.)

Part of the playtest is also making the wording clear, if I understand.

Potentially, and I prefer it, is to let casters use their spells effectively, using their spell casting attribute.

[orphias]

Ah, yes. I was confusing attribute modifier & the P2 proficiency mechanic. yes. It is clear now that you have defined the point. Thanks. Damn. that does make a big difference.

The casters in my group are going to whine on that one. LOL

[shroudb]

Edit: oops, you realised it yourself before I posted.