I once tried making a Pathfinder character out of DC's Captain Cold. I was never able to finish him because I had trouble figuring out the classes and the feats. I'd like to try again.
From what I can tell, the best classes to shoot ice through a ranged weapon are Spellslinger (a wizard archetype) and Eldritch Archer Magus. (Yes, I know that there is a Zero Pistol weapon that shoots cold energy, but it costs 10 grand. That's not a viable option for a level one character.)
In terms of class features, Eldritch Archer is probably best, but it lacks firearm proficiency and the Gunsmithing feat. Spellslinger has those, but so does regular Gunslinger, while Spellslinger lacks the grit and deeds that a Gunslinger would have. It also has opposition schools and I'm not sure how opposition schools work with multiclassing spellcasters.
So I'm thinking of taking one level of Gunslinger (maybe 2 for Nimble) and the rest Magus. The Siege Gunner archetype switches Grit to Int, which meshes with Magus so I can focus more into that stat instead of both Int and Wis. (Of course he'll need Wis for Will saves, but that can be taken care of in other ways.)
A Fighter archetype called Trench Fighter was also suggested to me. With 3 levels of it, I'd get Dex-to-Damage with one type of firearm. It loses Armor Training, but keeps everything else, so he'd still get the bonus feats.
The last time I tried to make this character, I was told that I was spending too much focus on the ranged attacking aspect rather than the spells aspect. I want to try to balance the two if I can. Yes, Captain Cold is a normal human with no magical or supernatural abilities in canon. When I mention spells, I mean things like Spellstrike - the gun is the magic.
I am going with human for his race. With a 20-point buy, putting the human +2 into Dex, I can get these two spreads:
10 Str, 16 Dex, 13 Con, 16 Int, 12 Wis, 10 Cha.
10 Str, 15 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Int, 12 Wis, 10 Cha.
Now, I know Cha isn't really a needed stat for these classes, but can you really imagine Wentworth Miller as un-charismatic?
I was also thinking about making the Flash as a Pathfinder character. For him, I was thinking Monk/Sorcerer with Stormborn bloodline. That bloodline has a lot of electricity bonus spells and features, as well as a few wind spells like Gust of Wind. It seems to fit the theme of a speedster fairly well, I think.
Instead of human, I was leaning towards Sylph as his race. I'd replace the Air Affinity trait for Storm in the Blood. And maybe the Energy Resistance for Like the Wind. I don't have a point spread in mind until I'm more sure of what classes Flash will be using.
And before anyone says anything, I know that canon Flash is human. Everyone is either human or alien in canon. But it doesn't have to be an exact carbon-copy and I feel that Sylph fits the theme.
I meant multiclassing wizard with another casting class. Not wizard with a martial class. I'll look at the bloodline.
The Musketeer Swashbuckler gets firearm proficiency, rapid reload and quick clear in one level though its still cha based. The Myrimidarch Magus might be worth a look. It trades some of the magical aspects of Magus for some fighter abilities. A ranged Magus shouldn't need dex to damage to be good, it already is, more levels in magus is better. As for Siege Gunner, it replaces nimble so only one level is needed. Magical Knack is a must if you're multiclassing.
Ah, I didn't notice that. One level only then. Musketeer looks interesting.
Captain cold is also a master thief - don't forget that part of his persona. I also would not get hung up on being able to do everything at 1st level - I can guarantee you he wasn't as you see him now when he was 15.
Also, try to move away from the magic aspect - doesn't seem right.
Try this on:
Alchemist (Gun Chemist / Inspired Chemist)
Gun Chemist grants you the firearm, and the ability to infuse your ammunition with the effects of what would have been your alchemist's bombs. Take the Frost Bomb discovery at level 2, and you can fling frost bullets that stagger the victims.
Inspired Chemist replaces Mutagens with Cognatogen's and can choose investigator talents instead of discoveries - making a much better 'Captain Cold' type character.
I know that most builds need a few levels to get online, but I would like it at least not be totally worthless at level one.
I did think that Phantom Thief Rogue might be a decent fit flavor-wise.
I'll take a look at the Alchemist. I was looking through threads trying to find ways to shoot ice through a gun, and those two classes were what I could find.
I think the alchemist is going to be the quickest start - just not really doing 'cold' until level 2. But level 1 is when he was just a run of the mill thief with some quirky ideas.
I would consider Captain Cold to be a pretty good martial/rogue crossover with access to a pretty cool magical weapon.
With that in mind, you don't need any built in 'caster' at all. Obviously you won't be able to start with a magical cold gun, but you can build toward it. The simplest is a +1 frost pistol. If your GM allows custom magic items you can get even more cold powers going on.
If you think you need to build your own weapon, the Master Craftsman feat is an option.
Play ability wise, a low levels you will mostly just be a ranged attack focus without access to any cold attacks. If you want to explore the cold theme early, picking up a few vials of liquid ice would cover that.
I was looking at the Gun Chemist, and I rather like it.
I think there are a few items that increase speed.
So the first time I tried to make Captain Cold, I gave him the trait Never Stop Shooting. I think it would still work here. The other trait was Life of Toil for a Fort boost. This can be switched out if needed.
I've been looking through the Social traits and there are a few I like for Captain Cold. I rather like the look of Bruising Intellect and Criminal. I'm actually leaning towards Bruising Intellect since it allows Int to be used instead of Cha and if I give Cold a level of Phantom Thief Rogue, everything but Fly will be a class skill anyway.
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Using a class based system like Pathfinder to copy characters is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. The system isn't build for it, and the creators of the character never had an RPG in mind when they made the character in the first place.
There is an alternative option however. Spheres of Power is a third party product that is really good at this. You can build just any themed character you want with minimal effort.
For Captain Cold I'd recommend an Armorist with the Blaster Archetype. Add the Energy Focus drawback so you can only make [cold] blasts and you're done.
The Flash would need one or two levels in Incanter. A Destruction or Time specialization would both be good options. After that, Monk would be a good option with Flurry of Blow, a bonus to your speed, good reflex saves and evasion. The Advanced Magical Training feat would be needed to keep up your caster level.
I'd prefer to stick with non third-party stuff, actually. And I know it won't be a perfect copy, but that's not the point. The point is to have fun making the character.
I may be a bit late to the party, but I'd suggest a Spellslinger (Wizard) / Havocker (witch) using a firearm with the Conductive weapon ability to channel your cold blast through the gun. That is something you can add yourself once your caster level is high enough. Maybe even use the VMC Magus to further boost your weapon, or the Alchemist to mix up bombs as an alternative option to gun/spells. Or skip the VMC option altogether to focus on getting Grit and deeds.
VMC sucks. If I go Magus, it's going to be as a full-featured Eldritch Archer.
I think the Swashbuckler archetype Dashing Thief is compatible with Musketeer. It fits flavor-wise but the way it replaces getting panache from a killing blow might not be a good fit if I only take one level of the class.
If I go with Gun Chemist, I probably won't need any levels of Musketeer at all. I do want to add a few levels of a Thief class here and there though. Phantom Thief Rogue gives up Sneak Attack, but since Sneak Attacks don't work with ranged attacks anyway without feats and such, that's ok. It does have a lot of decent skill features and can take the Combat Trick and Minor/Major Magic talents more than once. That's actually better than Dashing Thief for this situation since that archetype loses the bonus feats in exchange for Rogue Talents.
I'll be adding the Thief levels after I get cold attacks unless I decide to go with Musketeer/Eldritch Archer.
Ok, so I'm leaning towards Gun Chemist. I'm unsure if I want to combine it with Inspired Chemist.
Since the Alchemist is an Int-based class and the archetype doesn't change that, the stat spread I picked earlier doesn't need to be changed. I just have to decide between 16 Dex and 13 Con, or 15 Dex and 14 Con. I'm leaning towards the later a bit since a 13 Con is just a +1.
I'm keeping Never Stop Shooting as his first trait. And going with Bruising Intellect as the other. Either that or Indomitable Faith to boost his Will save. Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot will be his level one feats. Deadly Aim is the ranged counterpart to Power Attack, but there aren't any feats that require it, so I don't think I will be taking that.
Frost Bomb will be the first discovery he takes. The wording of it makes me think that it simply replaces the damage type with cold. That's correct, right?
Some of the Investigator talents looks interesting, but I'm not sure I like the idea of the Con penalty by using the Inspiring Cognatogen. Especially since the penalty becomes ability damage once the congatogen wears off.
I'm thinking 2 levels of Gun Chemist followed by 3 levels of Phantom Thief Rogue, Unchained of course. Obviously, the Dex to Damage won't apply to his firearm, but it will apply to his backup melee weapon. Phantom Thieves don't get Debilitating Injury, but I'll add a 4th level in later to get an second talent.
On second thought, I'll just go with 2 levels of Phantom Thief for now. Get the Evasion and the first talent and then go back to Gun Chemist for a while.
I think might go with the Tanglefoot Bomb discovery for his second one. Easy to fluff it as him icing their feet to the floor. Pheromones might also be good choice for a later discovery. Give him a bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate. All things Captain Cold is good at.
Chemical Stability and Exploding Bullet are also good choices. It'll all be about which order I take them in, I think.
Apparently there are a few feats that use Deadly Aim as a requirement. I did not know that.
I'm still going through the feats for Captain Cold. I don't do it every day, which is why it's taking so long. I just found an interesting feat.
Ranged Disable: You can disable devices with ranged weapons.
Prerequisites: Far Shot, Point-Blank Shot, Weapon Focus, Disable Device 9 ranks.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you can attempt a Disable Device check with a ranged weapon you have chosen with Weapon Focus. You can use this ability against only a simple device (one that would normally take a full-round action to disable), and you can’t use it if the device has any cover or concealment. This use of the ranged weapon deals no damage to the device, but it allows you to attempt a Disable Device check instead. You treat the ranged attack as if you were using tools inappropriate for the job, taking a –4 penalty on your Disable Device check. You also apply any range penalty for the weapon to the Disable Device check, but you do not gain any bonuses that would normally apply on attack rolls on the Disable Device check.
I'm assuming this is for situations where you can't get to the lock or something. I don't think I'm going to use it, but it does kinda fit the theme.
I found two teamwork feats that would be great if he didn't need someone to share the feat with: Coordinated Shot and Covering Fire. The only way to get around that is for someone else to take the feat, the Ring of Tactical Precision, or class dipping. That means either 3 levels of Inquisitor or one level in Musketeer. The Musketeer level would mean a double-up of the Gunsmithing feat, and I'm pretty sure you can't retrain class feats unless you get a choice in said feat. He would still have to take an Order as well. But with 3 levels of Rogue still part of plan, I don't really have room for 3 levels of Inquisitor. Especially since none of the other class features fit. Didn't even see any archetype that would fit the theme.
Instead of gun chemist, a steel hound investigator with that one level dip might be fun.
Could be fun, but I wouldn't be able to get any of the Cold persona going. Whereas I can get it from Gun Chemist with just one Discovery.
I just had a fun little idea. I've been building Captain Cold as a Player Character. I could also build him as an NPC, along with the rest of his Rogues, to be used in a DC-based game that I would run. I would have Heatwave, Pied Piper, Captain Boomerang, Weather Wizard, and Mirror Master.
Mirror Master would be a Wizard focused on movement and illusion spells. Weather Wizard would be a Stormborn Sorcerer if going off of the current TV version. Heatwave would probably be a Gun Chemist as well, though without any Phantom Thief levels.
Not sure what Captain Boomerang would be. Maybe a Fighter? He'd need the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat at least.
Would Pied Piper be a Bard? Or at least have a level or two of it.
So I can't use Crossbow Mastery for a firearm unless the GM says I can. As far as I can tell, there's no way to get reloading a firearm down to a free action otherwise. And you still provoke while loading. There is a feat that stops the provoking, but it's a teamwork feat so basically useless unless there are multiple gun users in the game. The Musketeer archetype keeps Tactician, but it only works on a single teamwork feat and I'd still need to be adjacent to an ally while reloading.
Anyone know a way to get the reloading down as much as possible? Or keep from provoking while reloading without that feat?
Ok, so it turns out that there are 2 archetypes that are both called Musketeer. One is the Cavalier archetype and the other is Swashbuckler. The Swashbuckler one gets Rapid Reload as a level one bonus feat so I'm thinking of taking it at level 3. Then take one level of Cavalier Musketeer for the bonus feat and Tactician. I'll go with Friendly Fire Maneuvers so allies won't give the enemies soft cover. Then a couple more levels of Gun Chemist before 2 levels of Phantom Thief for flavor.
I'm going to go with the Rogue Talent that gets Improved Steal without needing Combat Expertise. But I was hoping for it a little sooner for the flavor of it. There is retraining, but it's not ideal.
The Rapid Reload bonus feat from Musketeer Swashbuckler only applies to Muskets. And Muskets are two-handed firearms so even with Rapid Reload and alchemical cartridges, it's still a move action at best to reload. With a one-handed firearm, the feat lowers the reload time to move action and a free action when using alchemical cartridges. So I think I'm going to pass on the Swashbuckler level and take the Cavalier version at level 3 instead. I won't get a bonus Rapid Reload but I can still take it as my regular level 3 feat.
Except for Cavalier, the classes I'm going to be using for Captain Cold are not full BAB. So far my plan is this:
1: Gun Chemist (BAB 0) - Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot.
2: Gun Chemist (BAB 1) - Discovery: Frost Bullet
3: Musketeer Cavalier (BAB 2) - Rapid Reload
4: Musketeer Cavalier (BAB 3) - Order Ability TBD
5: Gun Chemist (BAB 4) - Dodge
6: Gun Chemist (BAB 5) - Discovery: Tanglefoot Bullet
7: Phantom Thief Rogue (BAB 5) - Weapon Finesse (class bonus) and Feat
8: Phantom Thief Rogue (BAB 6) - Talent: Combat Swipe: Improved Steal
9: Gun Chemist (BAB 6) - Manyshot
10: Gun Chemist (BAB 7) - Discovery: Pheromones
I forgot to include the bonus teamwork feat from Cavalier. It's going to be Friendly Fire Maneuvers.
I think I'm going to use the Order of the Cockatrice. It's the only order that fits the theme and has a halfway decent level 2 ability. It gets Dazzling Display as a bonus feat, but can use it as a standard action instead of a full-round action. I can either go with this, or not take a second level of Cavalier. But if I don't take a second level, then I do want to take another full BAB class. Otherwise I'd have to redo the feats since his overall BAB will fall. Swashbuckler is a full BAB class, or I could go with Fighter and get a bonus feat. Could go with Amateur Gunslinger and get the Quick Clear deed and not have to spend a use of Alchemical Ordinance to fix the gun if it misfires.
I think I might just go ahead and do that. Captain Cold might mainly use his cold gun, but he would have to know how to fight with his fists as well if he wanted to survive in prison. I'll still go with the Order of the Cockatrice since it fits the theme.
Oh my, is this what happens when we leave you alone for too long? So Captain Cold is a cavalier now, if you get an advanced firearm then reloading becomes a free action with rapid reload. Trench fighter could be your full bab class and it eventually gets you dex to damage. Your current feat block is missing rapid shot which would be understandable if you didn't have free action reloads.
Oops, forgot to change the word Feat for the feat I was actually going to take at level 7. It is Rapid Shot. I figured by then I'd have a gun that wasn't a single shot capacity and wouldn't have to reload all the time anyway. I didn't know that about advanced firearms. I should be able to save up 4000 gold by level 3 for the Revolver. I don't want to delay the Cold part of the build so that's the earliest I can get Rapid Reload anyway.
I picked the Musketeer Cavalier since it can share a teamwork feat. AKA Friendly Fire Maneuvers. And Trench Fighter would be a good choice. I still get the bonus feat and I can take the second and third level at level 7 and 8 and just push back the others.
Ok, here's a revised plan using Trench Fighter:
1: Gun Chemist: Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot.
2: Gun Chemist: Alchemist Discovery: Frost Bullet.
3: Musketeer Cavalier: Rapid Reload and Friendly Fire Maneuvers.
4: Trench Fighter: Amateur Gunslinger: Quick Clear.
5: Gun Chemist: Dodge.
6: Gun Chemist: Discovery: Tanglefoot Bullet.
7: Trench Fighter: Rapid Shot and Mobility.
8: Trench Fighter
9: Gun Chemist: Manyshot.
10: Phantom Thief: Weapon Finesse.
11: Phantom Thief: Shot on the Run and Rogue Talent: Combat Swipe: Improved Steal.
12: Gun Chemist: Discovery: Pheromones.
I should have noticed on the last block but manyshot is a bow only feat. At 12th level you should be an Alchemist 6 which would net you a bonus combat feat so you have more feat hunting to do. With amateur gunslinger you could technically get away with a 7 in wisdom but a 12 should be appropriate for saves. Other than that, your feats look fine.
Ah, I forgot about the bonus feat. I'll ask my GM on a ruling for Manyshot if I ever get around to playing him. (In case you haven't noticed, I make way more characters than I can play. Especially since I don't like to switch out a character unless they die.) If he says no, I'll go with Clustered Shots or Bulls-eye Shot. And one of those will be the level 12 bonus feat.
So after this, I buy him some level one gear and Captain Cold is done. A dagger as a back-up weapon, some light armor, MW backpack, etc. Can't use a shield until level 3 when I get the proficiency. Even if it's only -1 ACP for a buckler, I don't want any penalties on his attacks. Especially since his attack bonus is only a 2 to start with. And even with the free firearm and going with max starting gold, a MW buckler is too expensive to start off with.
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So now it's time to figure out how to do the Flash. Monk seems obvious as one of the classes. I was thinking Stormborn Sorcerer as another. But this can change if something better is suggested.
I'm also trying to figure out his race. As mentioned in the original post, I was leaning towards Sylph as Flash's race. I'd replace Air Affinity and Energy Resistance for Storm in the Blood and Like the Wind. Maybe the SLA for Whispering Wind.
Quickling was suggested for the race, due to its 120 speed. But it's a monster and I have absolutely no idea how to adjust it for a PC.
What if the villains were the PCs and the heroes were monsters?
I think the fastest a PC can move is a synthesist summoner with an absurd amount of legs. This reddit has some good options including a Stormborn sorcerer who takes eldritch heritage for the elemental speed boost.
I might just have to live without the superspeed. His race will give him a 5 foot boost and I can take Fleet a few times and Run as well. At level 15 of Sorcerer, Stormborns can move as a lightning bolt up to 10 times their speed in a straight line. That fits the theme perfectly.
Other than that, I'll want to concentrate on how he fights. Monk is perfect for this. And it also gets a speed boost, though he won't be able to use any armor at all. But that's what Ring of Protection and Amulet of Natural Armor are for. The Scaled Fist Archetype will keep the MADness down a little bit.
Gestalt might be a better choice for this character than regular multiclassing.
Even with Scaled Fist Monk switching the class stat to Cha, this is still a MAD character. He'll still need a nice Wis stat for saves, and the planned Sylph race has a Con hit. He won't have any extra damage with his unarmed strikes or his AC will be less since I can't get him both an Amulet of Natural Armor and an Amulet of Mighty Fists.
Is there an archetype of Sorcerer to switch the casting stat to Wis? Or is it a Bloodline only?
Crossblooded can work with GM approval as you technically can't cross blood a wild blood but that'd be the way to do it. Eldritch Heritage may help but that would require cha. His monk/casting stat plus some bracers of armor/mage armor should enough for ac and shocking grasp can be viable for a time and kind of make sense as a "lightning fast" punch. Make sure to grab magical knack for the damage. With spring attack you should be able to avoid some hits making ac less important.
I'll need to see the levels but something like
Sorcerer 15 / Monk 3 / Bloodrager 1 / Barbarian 1 might work.
Ok, I just wanted to make sure. That looks like it would be harder to work, so I guess I'll stick with Scaled Fist and Stormborn. An Ioun Stone and Iron Will can bump his Will save if needed.
Keeping that in mind, with a 20 point buy and the racial adjustments for a Sylph, I get this spread:
11 Str, 15 Dex, 13 Con, 14 Int, 12 Wis, 14 Cha.
I could also move one point from Str into either Int or Wis.
I'm assuming that those classes are inter-spaced with each other and not just right after the other.
So, does anyone have any ideas for how this could work? I've made a couple of monks and one monk/sorcerer, but none of those were speed builds. I'm a little out of my depth.
The sorcerer 15 / Monk 3 / Blood 1 / Barb 1 should still work. The order isn't too important as long as those sorcerer levels are actually one group of levels rather than sprinkled in. The biggest problem will be his base attack. This lay out should give our flash 600 ft movement when he rides lightning before adding other speed bonuses. I imagine that a speed build plays like a cavalier, meaning hit and run tactics.
So, the first level should probably be Monk then, to get the unarmed damage.
Starting in monk is probably best. As far as I know, Flash was a detective or journalist and not born super fast so not being so super should make sense. There also seems to be several Flashes so you should options in explaining why flash is not fast while he levels.