Difficulty with Difficulty Class

[Craig1234]

So, I'm putting together my first adventure ever. Nothing to big or crazy, just nice. I've pretty much got a handle on how to stock the dungeon and how much treasure and other stuff goes in there, but am running into trouble figuring out DC for checks (because, naturally, the ones I want don't exist in the books, lol).

So here's the one I'm having trouble with right out of the gate. The party walks into a room that no one should have been in for years and see that the fireplace has been used (no check for that part). What I want to do is say with a check, they can tell that it was used within in the last 12 hours. I'm presuming that would be a perception check, but I can't figure out what the DC would be. I look in my own fireplace which has ashes from a few days ago, and I can tell that its been a while since used, but wouldn't be able to put any time frame on it, so I'm guessing it wouldn't be an easy one. I also don't want it to be ridiculously hard.

I was thinking of making it 10, but only because it seems to be a good middle of the road number. Does anyone have a better number (or reason for a 10) and/or guidance on how to really make these determinations?

Thanks

[Kalriostraz]

Personally, I would treat it as a survival check, DC 15 or 20, depending on party level. If it's important they notice it and they're lower level is the only time I might bring it down to 10 especially if no one is trained. DC 10 is roughly: You're trained in this skill, congrats you pass. At least ime.

[Mythic Evil Lincoln]

Same here.

Survival check. I'd put the DC at 16-18.

Remind them that take 10 and Aid Another are possible if necessary. That means a first level party with one character having a rank in survival and someone else looking on could make this test without a roll, especially with a high Wisdom. Work back from there if people are rolling unskilled, or if you just want it to be a little harder.

[Drejk]

DC 10 is rather easy skill check to make (1st level character trained in a class skill will have +4 to +7, possibly more with right combination or racial bonus, trait and special class abilities). With this in mind, DC 15 feels to me closer to average DC for skill checks.

Appropriate skill would be probably Survival - as it represents experience with camping and igniting fires. Trying to guess time since the fire was quenched with a Perception should probably have higher DC - probably around 20.

EDIT: Ninjas, *grumble-grumble*

[Craig1234]

The party will most likely be lvl 1 at this time, lvl 2 at most.

Survival? I wouldn't have thought that. Please explain why, I don't doubt you're right, I just want to understand so I can get it right (or at least better) next time. I think I'll probably set it to 15 though, I don't want it too hard to get (its party of me building up a sense of foreboding), but don't want to just give it away either.

[Rynjin]

Survival is used for following tracks, first and foremost. You ever see a guy lean over and stick his finger in some scat and go "Yeah, still warm. We're close."?

That's Survival. Same principle, different medium.

However, in published modules and APs you'll often see that Perception CAN be used in place of Survival for things like this...but the DC is usually 5-10 higher. I'd allow that.

[Drejk]

Survival skill involves tracking - and determining age of ashes is ability of a successful tracker (tracking prey more demanding than regular animals, of course).

[Craig1234]

Oh I see, survival outdoors requires good with fire, hence, any fire you come across can be, to some extent, judged against that skill. Makes sense now. Thanks all. I'm also thinking of bumping it up to 18 with what I've read here.

[Riuken]

If you want them to pass, don't set a DC. The DC is equal to the highest result anyone rolls on their survival check. It sounds like it's dramatically cooler if they know it, unless there is a way later they could find out the same thing. By making them roll instead of giving it away, you let the PC who rolled highest, and therefore made the check, feel accomplishment. If you plan to put in another chance at the same "within the last 12 hours" information, I'd aim for survival DC 15, as others have suggested. Maybe later they could find a pet and determine with handle animal that it had been fed in the last 12 hours, or something else.

[Mythic Evil Lincoln]

Well, also, the whole "how long ago was this fire" falls under the tracking application of Survival. So that's a whole other reason it works.

Fire building AND reading evidence of recent habitation.

[Craig1234]

Riuken, rigging the rolls, I like it :)

[blahpers]

Ruiken's method is also nice if the result is something anybody would notice, but a skilled person would notice sooner. If a party member explicitly looks for that information, though, just give it to them. (If a PC looks in an otherwise empty drawer to find a note, they don't really need to make a Perception check, do they?)

If you do want to set DCs, remember the Three Clue Rule so that the party doesn't get stuck. There should always be a way forward.