|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I know some have mentioned that magic weapons are crucial to the game as is because you can't keep up with damage levels otherwise. What is the increase to damage was tied to your proficiency. Base damage is trained, 2 dice at expert, 3 at master, 5 at legendary(or possibly 4, but 5 feels more legendary). What does anyone think this would do to the math?
I know some have mentioned that magic weapons are crucial to the game as is because you can't keep up with damage levels otherwise. What is the increase to damage was tied to your proficiency. Base damage is trained, 2 dice at expert, 3 at master, 5 at legendary(or possibly 4, but 5 feels more legendary). What does anyone think this would do to the math?
And Magic Items only give +X to attack and damage. I could buy it.
Though I'd prefer Legendary sticking to 4.
Mr. Fishy is a strong advocate of burn the magic Christmas tree.
Mr. Fishy hs played and ran for many years and has always controlled the power of the monsters and the characters.
For Mr. Fishy, increased damaged for increase proficiency would also help to distinguish martial classes from casters; whom already have an in game damage boost based on level. So giving the same ability to martial classes would be game breaking.
This proposal requires a major shift in class design because most classes don't get legendary weapon proficiency or legendary armor proficiency.
Barbarians are in trouble all around.
Rogues are in trouble.
MC casters into fighters are in big trouble.
I like the idea in general if there is room for other classes then fighter to deal more dice early which right now is not given.
Lvl 1 Fighter twohanded sword dealing 2d12+4 seems excessive going up to 3d12 on third. I think spells and cantrips would have to change too in a system like that. Even when there is a delayed progression in the proficiency.
I rather have elemental powers for extra dice on weapons anyway and the static +x buff seemed fine for me.
You could give proficiency-based dice of damage along with magic weapon dice of damage, not stacking, e.g. if you prof gives you 3dW and your weapon gives you 4dW you get a total of 4dW, not 7dW. That basically means if you don't have high proficiency you need magic weapons with high potency, but if you do have high proficiency you can skip the potency runes and spend money on other stuff.
I suppose maybe that should require a feat.
You could give proficiency-based dice of damage along with magic weapon dice of damage, not stacking, e.g. if you prof gives you 3dW and your weapon gives you 4dW you get a total of 4dW, not 7dW. That basically means if you don't have high proficiency you need magic weapons with high potency, but if you do have high proficiency you can skip the potency runes and spend money on other stuff.
I suppose maybe that should require a feat.
Also lets people effectively use a less magical backup weapon if they have other proficiencies, which makes having multiple weapon proficiencies actually useful.
As a feat, this could be really cool. It would need some testing though. It is possible that Fighters could get ridiculous with their extra wealth if they can save 10s of thousands of gold.
I also don't like needing a magic weapon to participate at high levels. A fighter 20 with a normal sword is at, what, one-third power compared to if he has a +5 sword?
A couple options:
Dice by Level
At 1st level, you do 1[w] with any weapon.
This increases to 2[w] at 4th, 3[w] at 8th, 4[w] at 13th, and 5[w] at 18th.
Magic weapons of any sort add 1[w].
Bonus by Level
If you consider that an average character's weapon will do 1d8, and 4d8 extra averages out to 18 damage, you could just, y'know, add your level to weapon damage the same way you add it to everything else. This gives a boost to dagger wielders, and makes greatswords less appealing. Also, adding flat bonuses is less fun than rolling lots of dice.
Magic weapons would still add 1[w].
The Dark Souls Variant
Every magic weapon has some sort of energy damage it does. Most are force damage (good for stabbing ghosts), but it might be acid, cold, electricity, fire, negative, positive, or sonic. In the inevitable video game, different energy types glow different colors when you brandish your weapon.
I would have your proficiency level give extra dice, and magic weapons give a static bonus to hit and damage. eg
With a +0 weapon:
Untrained / Trained: 1W
Expert: 2W
Master: 3W
Legend: 4W
With a +1 weapon
Untrained / Trained: 1W+1
Expert: 2W+2
Master: 3W+3
Legend: 4W+4
etc for +2 & +3 weapons. It makes a + weapon meaningful but not essential.
And while we're on the subject, can we have bows and ammunition stack in some way? I'd suggest +hit for ammo and +damage for bow, which feels more realistic.
This is the version I've been working on:
Skilled Martials variant
- Expert, Master and Legendary proficiency in a weapon increases the damage value of that weapon by one die.
- Brutal Critical also increases the damage die of any weapon by one die during rage.
- Clerics also increase the damage die of their god’s favourite weapon by one die. The Emblazon and Align Armament feats allow you to treat any weapon etched with your symbol or aligned by you as your god’s favourite (these do not stack, but they do count for Warrior Priest).
- Potency Runes now come in Lesser, Greater, True, as follows:
Weapon Potency (Rune 8+, evocation, magical)
You can etch a weapon potency rune on a weapon of the quality listed under the individual entry of the type of rune. Greater and True Potency runes require the weapon to already have the listed weaker rune, and etching the new rune increases the existing potency rune bonus to the new value.
A Weapon Potency rune grants two offensive benefits. The weapon’s item bonus to attack rolls increases by the amount noted on the specific rune. For example, an Expert dagger with a Lesser Potency Rune would grant a +2 item bonus to attack rolls with the dagger.
Second, on a successful attack roll, the weapon deals an additional number of weapon damage dice equal to the item bonus increase. For example, an Expert wielder with the dagger mentioned above would deal 3d4 damage instead of 2d4 damage.
Type Lesser Weapon Potency; Level 8; Price 465gp
This rune can be etched only on a weapon of Expert or better quality. It increases the weapon’s item bonus and damage dice by +1.
Type Greater Weapon Potency; Level 16; Price 9,175gp
This rune can be etched only on a weapon of Master or better quality. It increases the weapon’s item bonus and damage dice by +2.
Type True Weapon Potency; Level 20; Price 61,860gp
This rune can be etched only on a weapon of Legendary or better quality. It increases the weapon’s item bonus and damage dice by +3.
Handwraps get similar modifications, and Magic Weapon becomes a lv3 spell.
Note that "increasing" the item bonus rather than substituting it means weapon quality is of very high importance (and yes, you can reach +6, sue me).
The end result sees Fighters getting more damage at lv1, but ultimately brings things in line. Also, some classes become able to deal slightly more damage at very high levels (monks, fighters) while others fall slightly behind (cleric, rogue), but that's kinda ok for me, as it's only a 10-15% variation anyways.
Needless to say my playtesting will be done as per base rules, but it's something I know I want to fiddle with, so, yeah.
I've brought it up in other threads, but you add proficiency (including level) to everything else. Why not add it to damage?
+20 to +23 over the course of 20 levels is pretty close to the average of what you'd get if you add +1d8 to +5d8 over 20 levels.
I've brought it up in other threads, but you add proficiency (including level) to everything else. Why not add it to damage?
+20 to +23 over the course of 20 levels is pretty close to the average of what you'd get if you add +1d8 to +5d8 over 20 levels.
That isn't a bad idea, but really would require a reworking of major design decisions. You'd need to reduce the amount of damage from say magic weapons by a lot to compensate. The basic math for balancing HP and Damage in the Bestiary would be absolutely obsolete.
As simple as your suggestion is, it would require some major redesigns.
Well, yeah. This would be replacing the bonus dice granted by magic weapons under the current PF2 rules (which would go back to just adding +1 to +5 to damage, most likely).
You would definitely need to change the price of potency runes to reflect that fact that they're adding less bonus damage, I admit.
Oh, well you've now created a serious problem for two handed weapons. +5 Dagger vs +5 Greatsword. 1d4+28(30.5) vs 1d12+28(34.5). Compare to 5d4(12.5) vs 5d12(33.5)
I think that's a bad thing. Having a 20+ point difference in average damage between PCs doesn't fit with the tighter math the game uses in all of its other aspects. Right now two-handers are doing so much more damage than everyone else that the game is having to punish them in the action economy to balance it out (i.e. making them spend extra actions to put both hands on the weapon).
It also makes the range of potential damage a little more controllable to make it easier to balance encounters. 6d12 could come to anything from 6 to 72 with an average of 40. That's a big difference that makes it hard to know how likely you are to OHKO a PC.
gamers like their dices.i pretty much prefer rolling +2d6 rather than getting +7 damage, even if +7 is practically better.
I'm the opposite. I'd rather have the bonus. Dice often betray me, so more dice is more chances to roll low.