RicoTheBold |
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TLDR: The guidelines in the character wealth/party treasure by level tables are hard to use at low levels due to lack of relevant items.
I realize that there aren't as many items in the playtest as there will be in the final rules, the Character Wealth table in Playtest Rulebook (page 348) brings this issue.
For level 4, the table says permanent items of 1x 3rd level, 2x 2nd level, and 2x 1st level, and 30 gp.
Okay, so I was testing it by equipping a monk and I couldn't find anything 3rd level that was actually relevant for that character. Monks are weird, though, and the 2 2nd level slots were easily filled with bracers of armor and handwraps of mighty strikes. Maybe 3rd level's just a gap here.
Level 1, though, only has a single permanent magic item. It's a dull gray aeon stone, and it doesn't actually do anything except orbit a character's head and function as a target for light or continual flame or something. It costs 5 gold, which is 1 more than the wolf fang trinket.
Okay, that's weird. Ah, but wait! There's one other line in the text that's super important here:
When assigning level 1 permanent items, your best options are weapons, armor, and gear from chapter 6 worth between 10 and 20 gp.
Oh, cool, that helps. Let's see what it includes.
Half plate (175 sp)
Composite longbow (200 sp)
Composite shortbow (140 sp)
Expert artisan's tools (level 2, 200 sp)
Expert climbing kit (level 2, 150 sp)
Expert disguise kit (level 2, 150 sp)
Expert fishing tackle (level 2, 150 sp)
Expert healer's tools (level 2, 200 sp)
Expert lock (level 2, 100 sp)
Expert magnifying glass (200 sp)
Expert manacles (level 2, 150 sp)
Expert repair kit (level 2, 150 sp)
Expert snare kit (level 2, 200 sp)
Spyglass (200 sp)
Formula, 6th level item (125 sp)
Formula, 7th level item (180 sp)
Lodging (1 day), Extravagant suite for 6 (100 sp)
Light barding for small/medium animal (100 sp)
Light barding for large animal (200 sp)
That...wasn't that helpful after all. It's mostly just expert tools, and bows/heavy armor. Never mind that nothing in that list is actually a level 1 item, because everything in the chapter is level 0 unless otherwise noted, and the only notes are for a bunch of expert things that are level 2. Sadly, the same issues exist for guidelines for distributing permanent items on the "Party Treasure by Level" table.
Maybe it works better at higher levels, but these guidelines seem more confusing than just giving gold and capping the highest-level permanent items someone could start with. I expect I'll end up giving such feedback in the scenario-specific survey when that comes up.
Laik RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
nightpanda2810 |
To add to this, I can't figure out what increasing the quality does to the item.
For instance, making a level 4 character. For my 3rd level item I took a +1 armor (which requires expert).
However, for my 2nd level item, can I get an expert weapon? Since a magical weapon is a 4th level item, I'm not sure at all.
Edit: Answered my own question.
Expert quality armor and weapons are 2nd-level items, except
expert heavy armor, which is 3rd level. Master-quality armor and weapons are 7th-level items, and legendary quality armor and weapons are 15th-level items.
RicoTheBold |
Until otherwise answered, I plan on assuming that the table on p. 348 implies that all items on the appropriate level of loot table, be they permanent or consumable, are fair game for selection for your 1-2 items of each level, even though the text mentions only permanent items.
That's a massive difference in value, though. Consumables are a lot cheaper because you can only use them once. A level 9 greater potion of resistance (Resistance 10) is 80 gold, while the "permanent version" of the same benefit is more expensive even for a lower bonus and item level. The lesser ring of energy resistance at level 6 (three levels lower, only resistance 5) is 245 gold.
If you're not making up the difference in gold, you're leaving your players well behind the economic value. That's why I was saying it would be easier to just give the gold value, because you end up having to reverse engineer it anyway.
Grimcleaver |
My group's been having an awful time picking magic items they actually want. +1 armor is fair enough, but the classes that seem like they can become expert with it are the combat classes that wouldn't want the light or medium armor that are the only types of armor a +1 rune works on. It has been rough going. I think a lot of the problem is that the magic items aren't listed by level, so you can't just scroll to the section you want--you have to parse the entire section trying to pick out the items you qualify for. Overwhelmingly most of them are consumables--which really need their own section. So far it looks like a lot of Hats of Disguise and Hands of the Magi (for folks who don't have those cantrips already). The Monkey Pin looks good. The various pins and brooches and bracers of defense look good...a little too good, like I'm missing something that will end up biting people.
Overall the feeling from the magic item section is that it just feels stingy and confining. Honestly I'd rather just have a prefab list of magic items you get by level and just write them down rather than have to make my players pick through pages and pages of things they either can't have or don't want.
Tamago RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 |
I think a lot of this could be solved by having an index listing items by level. (Preferrably two; one for consumable items and one for permanent items.)
I'm really hoping that by the time we make it to the higher level playtests, some kind soul from the community will make these lists so I can give them to my players. Otherwise, I have a feeling that a couple of them will just skip buying equipment because it's too hard.
Captain Morgan |
I think a lot of this could be solved by having an index listing items by level. (Preferrably two; one for consumable items and one for permanent items.)
I'm really hoping that by the time we make it to the higher level playtests, some kind soul from the community will make these lists so I can give them to my players. Otherwise, I have a feeling that a couple of them will just skip buying equipment because it's too hard.
...How is this not the charts starting on page 349? Not trying to be a jerk. It just seems either you were unaware of these charts or you are talking about something completely different than what I think you are talking about.
Tamago RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 |
Tamago wrote:...How is this not the charts starting on page 349? Not trying to be a jerk. It just seems either you were unaware of these charts or you are talking about something completely different than what I think you are talking about.I think a lot of this could be solved by having an index listing items by level. (Preferrably two; one for consumable items and one for permanent items.)
I'm really hoping that by the time we make it to the higher level playtests, some kind soul from the community will make these lists so I can give them to my players. Otherwise, I have a feeling that a couple of them will just skip buying equipment because it's too hard.
Yup I totally missed that those charts were by level rather than by price. That’ll help a lot!