HEYO! I've been invited to play in a Sunday game that involved 15th level characters. After a few days of debate I decided on a class....a prestige class: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/brewkeepe r/
A character who followed the way of Cayden Cailean all the way to the bar and ended up becoming an accidental adventurer with a 15th level party to save the world. I have just one problem though; I don't have a base class!
So I need your help!
Alchemist, Wizard, Cleric, Magus, Warpriest. They all make fantastic base classes for this, but I just can't seem to decide.
The party currently consists of an Alchemist Vivisectionist/Protean, a Rogue/Kineticist, and an undecided person, So I'm a bit open.
I plan to fight with two weapons: Tankards! via a few feats so I plan to get up in Melee a bit, but that doesn't mean I can't be a pure arcane (like Wizard) and use the tankards as fallback. Obviously this class works better the other way though.
So bring on the suggestions! please!
The slayer abilities can be pretty generic. Maybe a good fit for a two weapon fighter who just stumbled into adventuring.
Melkiador wrote: The slayer abilities can be pretty generic. Maybe a good fit for a two weapon fighter who just stumbled into adventuring. doesn't have a caster level
Warpriest sacred weapon ability seems to fit tankards perfectly
If you're going to fight with two tankards then you need spellcasting you can do with your hands full. That means warpriest or a psychic spellcaster. Warpriest is the natural one IMO, but mindblade magus could be interesting and a psychic with some odd discipline could be funny (self-perfection; don't ask about his definition of perfection, rebirth from a long line of drunkards, psychedelia if he adds herbs to his drinks, or just plain old faith in CC.)
Danzibe1989 wrote: Melkiador wrote: The slayer abilities can be pretty generic. Maybe a good fit for a two weapon fighter who just stumbled into adventuring. doesn't have a caster level You never actually specified you needed one. But now that I looked up the prc, I’d go with the unexpected and use a psychic.
Brewmaster and a Druid that chooses Druidic Herbalism as their Nature Bond would synergize well. 7th level druid/8th level Brewkeeper. That way you'd be popping out beverages so fast you'd be a one man microbrewery.
Make sure you take a feat or at least a trait to drink faster. Actually there is another feat to give you a will bonus when drinking. Unfortunately other than getting a Handy Haversack or wearing a potion bandoleer I can't think of a way to make drawing potions faster. Even those 2 items make it a move action instead of a standard.
Also the go-to concoction to make as a Druid with herbalism is Channel the Gift since you can just use them to power 3rd level spells. If you have 3 days of downtime that is an extra wis mod x3 free potions to power 3rd level spells for you or another party member.
avr wrote: If you're going to fight with two tankards then you need spellcasting you can do with your hands full. That means warpriest or a psychic spellcaster. Warpriest is the natural one IMO, but mindblade magus could be interesting and a psychic with some odd discipline could be funny (self-perfection; don't ask about his definition of perfection, rebirth from a long line of drunkards, psychedelia if he adds herbs to his drinks, or just plain old faith in CC.) Two-Weapon Drunkard (Combat Feat)
You effortlessly wield tankards in your off hand, and can
use them to drink from and as deadly weapons in a battle
with equal ease.
Prerequisites: Catch Off-Guard, Two-Weapon Fighting
Benefit: When you wield a tankard as an improvised
weapon in your off hand, it functions as a light mace,
including for the purpose of determining the effects of
feats like Weapon Focus. If you worship Cayden Cailean,
your off-hand tankard functions as a divine focus and does
not interfere with somatic spell components.
When you fight with two weapons and have the sickened
condition, you do not apply the penalties from being
sickened to attack rolls or weapon damage rolls.
Normal: A tankard wielded as an improvised weapon
normally functions as a gauntlet.
I planned to take that.
Meirril wrote: Brewmaster and a Druid that chooses Druidic Herbalism as their Nature Bond would synergize well. 7th level druid/8th level Brewkeeper. That way you'd be popping out beverages so fast you'd be a one man microbrewery.
Make sure you take a feat or at least a trait to drink faster. Actually there is another feat to give you a will bonus when drinking. Unfortunately other than getting a Handy Haversack or wearing a potion bandoleer I can't think of a way to make drawing potions faster. Even those 2 items make it a move action instead of a standard.
Also the go-to concoction to make as a Druid with herbalism is Channel the Gift since you can just use them to power 3rd level spells. If you have 3 days of downtime that is an extra wis mod x3 free potions to power 3rd level spells for you or another party member.
wow yeah just took a look at that. it works really well for this, though not a fan of it being on the druid, not sure how helpful outside of the Brewkeeper functions a 5th-7th level Druid abilities would be. I think it'd be heavily reliant on its Spellcasting
Generally druids are. But if you want to melee, they have plenty of buffs for it. Especially if you use stuff like Flame Blade to do touch attacks.
The main reason you want 7th level druid is so you can make potions (the free ones, half price potions, and spell extracts) at 1 minute each. That is like 12 or 13 extra potions per day, made with your full caster level because they are FREE. Seriously, you'd be able to cast an absurd number of 3rd level spells. Considering the Brewkeeper's ability to metamagic potions you'd be able to possibly make extended buff potions? Or combining abilities use the Herbalism to make a high level extract (like True Seeing) and then use Brew Points to add Meta Magics to it (like extended).
How was that Divine Fighting technique called? Caiden Caelean ... it allowed a swashbuckler to use a tankard in his left hand as a buckler and still apply his precise strike... while drinking...
Cayden Cailean's "Blade and Tankard" Divine Fighting Style doesn't allow you to use a tankard as a buckler.
But it does allow you to wield a tankard as a weapon equivalent to a light mace, and you can drink potions or other liquids out of the tankard, as well as use the liquid in the tankard to perform a Dirty Trick with no AoO in place of one attack with your tankard. The advanced benefit of the Divine Fighting Technique allows you to refill the tankard with a liquid as a swift action, and gives you some nice bonuses to the tankard dirty tricks.
There's a bit of overlap with the previously posted "Two Weapon Drunkard" feat when it comes to using a tankard as a weapon, but the feat still has a handy secondary ability of being able to use the tankard as a divine focus, so it's worth getting both.
So I'd suggest a Chaotic Good Dwarven Warpriest of Cayden Cailean, dual-wielding tankards. Since you're starting at 15th level, I'd go 10 levels of Warpriest (to get your 10th level Blessing and bump your tankards to 1d10 each) and 5 levels of Brewmaster.
Trade out one of your two Blessing options for that Divine Fighting Technique, swapping both the 1st level Minor Power and 10th level Major Power benefits for both the standard and advanced Divine Fighting Techniques. (Doing so allows Warpriests to pick up the full benefit of the Divine Fighting Technique without spending any feats and without having to meet any of the prerequisites. But the trade-off is that you're down to just one Blessing in return.)
Take Weapon Focus: Tankard with your 1st level bonus so you can apply your Sacred Weapon bonuses to tankards, and then use two of your Bonus Feats to get Weapon Specialization: Tankard and Greater Weapon Focus: Tankard, since you can use your Warpriest level as Fighter levels for bonus feat prerequisites.
Pick up the prerequisite feats of Catch Off-Guard and Two Weapon Fighting to get the Two-Weapon Drunkard feat, to allow you to use a tankard as a Divine Focus, meaning you won't have to drop one of your tankards to cast a spell.
You'll also need Brew Potion before 10th level, for the prestige class. Improved Two Weapon Fighting is needed as well.
I'd definitely pick up the Accelerated Drinker feat, not only because it fits the character, but also because it allows you to drink liquids as Move Action. This means that with the advanced benefit of the Divine Fighting Technique you can fill the tankard with a potion or Brewmaster draught as a Swift Action, drink it as a Move Action, and still have your Standard Action left.
Even better, if you already have a draught waiting in one of your tankards, you can use your Warpriest Fervor ability to cast a spell on yourself as a Swift Action, drink another spell (draught) as a Move action, and cast a third spell as a Standard action. That's casting three buff spells on yourself in one round, which is awesome.
You could have one tankard staged with beneficial potion or spell draught to use for yourself, and the other tankard filled with booze to splash in the enemy's eyes (and also to drink between battles).
Since the various TWF feats require a high Dex, you may need to prioritize Dex over Strength and pick up the Weapon Finesse feat. (Tankards are Finessable, since they're treated like Light Maces due to both the Drunkard feat and Cayden's Divine Fighting Technique.)
Even though it's nifty and fits with the "throw beer in their eyes" dirty trick ability of the Divine Fighting Technique, I wouldn't bother with spending all the feats to get the Improved/Greater/Master Dirty Trick line. You already get nearly all the benefits of Improved Dirty Trick from the Divine Fighting Technique anyway, and you'll probably be using up all your feats already anyway just with all those Tankard-boosting/TWF/Drinking/Brewing feats.
But you might ask your GM if they'll allow you to use the Brewmaster's 3rd level ability "Harmful Homebrew" with the Divine Fighting Technique's "throw beer in their eyes" dirty trick. As written, the ability only applies to splash weapons and touch attacks, but it's flavorful, fits well with the character, and in my opinion a dirty trick involving literally splashing someone with booze should totally be considered a "splash weapon" for that purpose. ;)
RogueJK wrote: Pick up the prerequisite feats of Catch Off-Guard and Two Weapon Fighting to get the Two-Weapon Drunkard feat, to allow you to use a tankard as a Divine Focus, meaning you won't have to drop one of your tankards to cast a spell. Or you can just get a tattoo holy symbol.
Edit: Removed. See my below post.
RogueJK wrote: That would save you two feats, likely opening up the ability to pursue the Combat Expertise>Improved Dirty Trick>Greater Dirty Trick>Dirty Trick Master line of feats (provided you have 13 INT). Dirty Fighting removes the need for Int 13.
A Tattoo Holy Symbol or Birthmark trait would remove the need for a separate Divine Focus, but you'd still have to drop one of the tankards to cast spells with Somatic components, since you'd still need a free hand for the casting.
But with the Two-Weapon Fighting Drunkard, the off-hand tankard acts as both a divine focus AND doesn't interfere with Somatic spells.
So it's still worth getting the Drunkard feat for that latter benefit, even though it's partially redundant with the Divine Fighting Technique, and Catch Off Guard is a wasted feat for this character (although fitting for someone with experience in a lot of barroom brawls involving improved weapons.)
But you're correct that Dirty Fighting would certainly help with reducing the entry tax for the Dirty Trick feat line. If he ends up with three feats to spare, Dirty Fighting>Improved Dirty Trick>Greater Dirty Trick is worth a look.
Have you considered magical tankards, beyond simple weapon enhancements?
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Those have some nifty abilities, and would be useful (and fitting) for the character to keep one or more of them on-hand. But they'd only be really useful as primary weapons if your GM allows you to upgrade named magical items. Not all do, and PFS doesn't.
If not, the Warpriest Sacred Weapon enhancement ability would help a bit with that, but they still wouldn't keep up with an already enchanted weapon with Sacred Weapon stacked on top. And since he'd be switching from Warpriest to Brewmaster at 10th level, the most he'd be able to achieve with Sacred Weapon is +2. He'd have to rely on spells like Greater Magic Weapon quite a bit. Doable, but probably not ideal.
Wow the power of sleep. I missed so much lol. Ok *cracks knuckles*
@Meirril: I full understand the power of the druid (But remember, no matter what length of time you can make potions via Brew Potion, it is still 1 potioni a day *barf*) Now using the class ability however is fantastic as you can just churn out Heal potions like a factory. It is pretty good, and you can stick to a utility support and crowd control caster if you wish, its a good option.
@The Sidreomancer: I sure did! I looked up as much drinking related things I could find and plan to use a couple of Cailean Fighting Tankards to have 12 potions on hand at any time that i can Move Action drink with Accelerated Drinker trait, as it counts as having a potion in hand by my GM.
@RogueJK: Now that is the kind of advice i'm looking for. I've also considered all that you said last night, hence i'm stuck in a few places.
I already know I won't be a DPR monster, thats ok. 2 Main attacks and 1 off-hand is comfortable enough for me, I have other party members who are focused on the DPR. My primary job I think would be a party buffer/Tank type. The problem with Warpriest is the inability to put Heal in a potion at our current level, granted if I live to 16 then I can do it but *shrugs* never know what we are gonna face right now lol. As it stands I plan to take 7 levels of Brewmaster (the last 3 levels aren't too spectacular).
@Gray Warden: I planned on taking the feat strictly for the secondary ability of it, the rest is just a bonus.
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That being said, I've reached a stuck point:
Witch 8/Brewkeeper 7 (Useful Touch spells, Hexes for utility, Arcane Healing. Can take Bonded Witch archetype and have a Tankard as my item. DM cleared it with me, and I told him i don't care about the bonus spells, but now it looks like I talk into my drink every morning at the bar table lol)
Warpriest 8/ Brewkeeper 7: The ability to self buff 3 times in 1 turn is HUGE, especially with combat buffs: Divine Power, Righteous Might, Divine Favor, etc etc. The class abilities would suffer badly though and Warpriest really needs its class abilities to shine I feel.
Arcane Physician Wizard 8/ Brewkeeper 7: Amazing versatility in spells, access to Healing Spells thanks to the Archetype. Can prepare most spells ahead of time as potions, cast Transformation and fight with most spells still useable, can't take a hit for s&&@ because D6 HP and no armor proficiency >.<. Could take a 1 level dip to remedy that.
Cleric 8/ Brewkeeper 7: Channel Energy, Heavy Armor access, slower buff rate than Warpriest (2 Buffs a turn max), has access to Healing Spells and the Heal spell in specific. Can get tanky.
Druid 8/ Brewkeeper 7: Fanstatic utility spells, can pump out more potions than any of these choices for free, can still Wildshape to more combat capable forms if necessary, access to healing and buff spells.
Alchemist 8/ Brewkeeper 7: Can take full advantage of Brewkeeper prestige class. Later Alchemist spells are meh and not really effective as potions for the team. Can fight with Mutagens effectively and wear some armor so can take a hit or two. access to healing spells.
If you're wanting to use the Divine Fighting Technique advanced ability of the swift-action tankard refill, you'll have to take at least 10 levels in Warpriest. That ability isn't unlocked until Level 10, by giving up one of your Major Blessing Powers (which aren't available until 10).
Otherwise, if you have less than 10 levels in Warpriest, you're looking at using a Move/Standard Action* every time you need to put a potion/draught/booze into one of your tankards. Not ideal.
(*The type of action needed is up to your GM, since I can't find anywhere that it's specifically spelled out.)
You could go with Cailean Fighting Tankards to lessen that impact by having multiple liquids on tap at any given time, but then you run into the aforementioned potential pitfalls regarding enhancing a named magic item.
RogueJK wrote: If you're wanting to use the Divine Fighting Technique advanced ability of the swift-action tankard refill, you'll have to take at least 10 levels in Warpriest. That ability isn't unlocked until Level 10, by giving up one of your Major Blessing Powers (which aren't available until 10).
Otherwise, if you have less than 10 levels in Warpriest, you're looking at using a Move/Standard Action* every time you need to put a potion/draught/booze into one of your tankards. Not ideal.
(*The type of action needed is up to your GM, since I can't find anywhere that it's specifically spelled out.)
You could go with Cailean Fighting Tankards to lessen that impact, but then you run into the aforementioned potential pitfalls regarding enhancing a named magic item.
Well the thing with that is that it says Optional. meaning you don't have to be that to get that. you can take the feat and follow up with the required prereqs, which is what i planned on doing. I also planned on taking Prestigious Spellcaster to get my full array of spells.
Going to point out, the Druid/Brewkeeper can make Heal into an extract using druidic herbalism, something the Brewkeeper can't do with its own abilities.
The same goes for Alchemists, if they take the discovery that lets them hand off extracts to others. Druidic Herbalism gets that as part of the base ability.
Oh, and yes Druidic Herbalism is just like Brew Potion for how limited you are in making potions. You can produce up to 4 potions a day that have a value of 200gp or less, or 1 potion up to 1,000gp (or 2,000gp if your GM allows you to 'add 5 to the dc' for something you automatically succeed at). Until you hit 7th level the free potions thing is interesting but not spectacular. When you get the ability to make potions in 1 minute at 7th level it becomes ridiculous. You can even make regular potions (at half creation cost!) in the same 1 minute. Now you just have to convince merchants that your veggie smoothy of questionable origin is just as good as a regular potion...
...no seriously. Do not break the economy with potions. This ability is broken as is, no reason to give your GM an extra headache.
Meirril wrote: Going to point out, the Druid/Brewkeeper can make Heal into an extract using druidic herbalism, something the Brewkeeper can't do with its own abilities.
The same goes for Alchemists, if they take the discovery that lets them hand off extracts to others. Druidic Herbalism gets that as part of the base ability.
Oh, and yes Druidic Herbalism is just like Brew Potion for how limited you are in making potions. You can produce up to 4 potions a day that have a value of 200gp or less, or 1 potion up to 1,000gp (or 2,000gp if your GM allows you to 'add 5 to the dc' for something you automatically succeed at). Until you hit 7th level the free potions thing is interesting but not spectacular. When you get the ability to make potions in 1 minute at 7th level it becomes ridiculous. You can even make regular potions (at half creation cost!) in the same 1 minute. Now you just have to convince merchants that your veggie smoothy of questionable origin is just as good as a regular potion...
...no seriously. Do not break the economy with potions. This ability is broken as is, no reason to give your GM an extra headache.
yeah, i know that about the Druids. its the primary aspect to it being a choice really.
Danzibe1989 wrote:
Well the thing with that is that it says Optional. meaning you don't have to be that to get that. you can take the feat and follow up with the required prereqs, which is what i planned on doing.
Gotcha. That's not an ideal path if playing from Level 1, since it would mean picking up the Divine Fighting Technique feat plus waiting all the way until Level 14 for that advanced ability to come online (due to the +10 BAB prerequisite).
But since you're jumping in at Level 15, it works just fine.
RogueJK wrote: Gotcha. That's not an ideal path if playing from Level 1, since it would mean picking up the Divine Fighting Technique feat plus waiting all the way until Level 14 for that advanced ability to come online (due to the +10 BAB prerequisite).
But since you're jumping in at Level 15, it works just fine.
oh yeah totally. ground up would be a totally different procedure for sure
Danzibe1989 wrote:
I also planned on taking Prestigious Spellcaster to get my full array of spells.
Just be sure to keep an eye on your feats. Between all the other feats you're having to take for TWF, brewing, and tankard-boosting, it's probably getting tough to squeeze extras in. Especially since you're skipping the bonus feat at Warpriest 9 by going Brewkeeper after 8. (Or potentially skipping all the bonus feats by going with a different base class.)
With Divine Fighting Technique, Favored Prestige Class, and Prestigious Spellcaster, you're adding three required feats to the build...
You get 7 base feats from 1-15, and you'd need 8 just to cover all those basics and prerequisites:
-Divine Fighting Technique
-TWF
-ITWF
-Catch Off Guard
-Two Weapon Drunkard
-Brew Potion
-Favored Prestige Class
-Prestigious Spellcaster
So you'd need to be a Human, or get at least one bonus feat from a class, just to cover those basics.
And that doesn't leave anything else for improving your tankards' combat utility, boosting your dirty tricks, increasing your spellcasting abilities, or the like.
RogueJK wrote: Danzibe1989 wrote:
I also planned on taking Prestigious Spellcaster to get my full array of spells.
Just be sure to keep an eye on your feats. Between all the other feats you're having to take for TWF, brewing, and tankard-boosting, it's probably getting tough to squeeze extras in. Especially since you're skipping the bonus feat at Warpriest 9 by going Brewkeeper after 8. (Or potentially skipping all the bonus feats by going with a different base class.)
With Divine Fighting Technique, Favored Prestige Class, and Prestigious Spellcaster, you're adding three required feats to the build...
You get 7 base feats from 1-15, and you'd need 8 just to cover all those basics and prerequisites:
-Divine Fighting Technique
-TWF
-ITWF
-Catch Off Guard
-Two Weapon Drunkard
-Brew Potion
-Favored Prestige Class
-Prestigious Spellcaster
So you'd need to be a Human, or get at least one bonus feat from a class, just to cover those basics.
And that doesn't leave anything else for improving your tankards' combat utility, boosting your dirty tricks, increasing your spellcasting abilities, or the like. Human: Catch-Off Guard
1st: TWF
3rd: Two-weapon drunkard
5th: Brew Potion (Unless a class gives it free)
7th: ITWF
9th: Weapon Finesse
11th: Weapon Focus (Tankard)
13th: DFT: Blade & Tankard Style (2ndry benefits don't kick in till 15th, depending on class)
15th:
Favored Prestige and Prestigious Spellcaster are not 100% required, but are helpful and could be taken later, if it would be beneficially better to take them. The feats chosen here are not representative of any chosen class but merely an example. I do see your point in there being lots of choices, not enough slots so i'm gonna have to weed out some choices in the end. I don't need the feats to hit accurately as much, as I can supplement that with various spells.
RogueJK wrote: Don't forget about Divine Fighting Technique, since you're going the Feat route instead of the Blessing route. Right, thats Blade & Tankard style.
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