Been watching a little too much Far Cry 5, wherein the shovels are broken beyond belief as a ranged javelin-type weapon. Also really like Shovel Knight.
Thinking about shovels in Pathfinder, they're an improvised weapon, so you'd want Catch Off Guard, and of course Throw Anything so that they can be used javelin style... Then of course Improvised Weapon Mastery to beef their damage dice.
Those are just feats though. How would one make the ultimate shovel-themed warrior-type in Pathfinder?
Man, FarCry 5 has the most disappointing ending EVER. Ruins the game, it's that bad. I told all my friends not to waste their time or money on the game, the ending is literally that bad. They nailed it with the environment and Montana attitude, though. I grew up pretty much exactly where they based that game.
Anyways, here's some fun for your shovels...
Worship Vildeis
Take the Blind Zeal trait
Work the following feats into your build:
Blinded Blade Style
Improved Blind Fight
Blinded Competence
Greater Blind Fight
Blinded Master
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Combat Reflexes
Combat Patrol
Point Blank Shot
Shot on the Run
You get the idea...
Worship Vildeis
Take the Blind Zeal trait
Work the following feats into your build:
Blinded Blade Style
Improved Blind Fight
Blinded Competence
Greater Blind Fight
Blinded Master
*sniff sniff* ... My shovel smells your evil.
Evil?!
Vildeis is Lawful Good!
You could be a Dwarf or Drow miner or an ex-slave who spent so much time digging underground that you either lost the use of your eyesight, or you can see just fine and really know your way around in the dark.
Vildeis is all about scars, rage, and resurrection which is the Cliff-notes version of a story about a person who escaped slavery to start a new life.
Vildeis is also noteworthy in the areas devotion, sacrifice, and martyrdom... Like someone who dedicated themselves to diligently working underground until they lost their eyesight, building the foundation for a beautiful underground city they will never see.
Evil?!
Vildeis is Lawful Good!
I know, I was making a joke. The shovel weilder with these feats would smell evil. :P
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Dip into Gravedigger Investigator and get "Catch off guard" with Shovels and Lanterns. though, be warned- there's a whole argument in regards to enhancing "improvised" weapons like the Shovel.
for a home game, maybe talk to your gm about reskinning a Monk Spade as a "shovel"
Dip into Gravedigger Investigator and get "Catch off guard" with Shovels and Lanterns. though, be warned- there's a whole argument in regards to enhancing "improvised" weapons like the Shovel.
for a home game, maybe talk to your gm about reskinning a Monk Spade as a "shovel"
Yeah, the only thing I found to enhance them was the monk Way of the Empty Hand, which one of my players used a long time ago at one of my tables.
My bad. I'm a little slow today.
Five feats and a trait is quite a commitment just for RP fluff and story, though. I just have it on my mind because I made an NPC Gunslinger with all of this just so I could have someone without eyeholes in their helmet. Lol.
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Rough and Ready
You're gonna use a single type of improvised weapon, so this trait is essentially Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything.
Ring of Balanced Grip gives basically the same effect.
Gloves of Improvised Might
Might help with keeping you relevant at higher levels.
And if you want to treat your shovel as a 'real' weapon for class abilities and such, then take Equipment Trick.
Choose one piece of equipment, such as boots, cloak, heavy blade scabbard, rope, or shield. You understand how to use that item in combat.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can use any equipment tricks relating to the item if you meet the appropriate trick requirements. If the item would normally be considered an improvised weapon, you can treat it as either a normal weapon or an improvised weapon, whichever is more beneficial for you.
The list is not exclusive, so you could choose "Shovel" even though there are no tricks listed for shovels. I'd also argue that a shovel is just a pole with extra weight, so pole tricks should work with shovels.
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As for viability, a simple two-handed build won't care about the low damage die since most damage comes from PA/High str.
DR can be circumvented by having multiple shovels made by special materials, since your enhancement bonus is coming from the gloves.
A cunning player may make a two-handed Bloodrager* with an Arcane Bond from Eldritch Heritage, and then designate the shovel as a bonded weapon (Equipment Trick needed). Which would allow you to upgrade the shovel as a normal weapon.
*For a caster level, since you need to upgrade it yourself.
But to make a shovel-themed character, I'd definitely want a burrow speed and maybe invest some resources into tripping/dirty tricks.
Shoveling away the ground under my foes' feet or throwing dirt in their eyes could be fun.
Well, you could use a monk's spade. It is a weapon descended from a shovel/dog catching pole.
Wonderstell, wow, that is a legit bit of how to kill people with a shovel science. Thank you, I can NPC that, for sure.
I have a silly question -- just how much damage would/should a shovel used as a weapon do, exactly?
I have a silly question -- just how much damage would/should a shovel used as a weapon do, exactly?
Depends who is using it...
A monk, warpriest, Inquisitor, fighter, barbarian may be able to make very good use of such a weapon...
I have a silly question -- just how much damage would/should a shovel used as a weapon do, exactly?
1d4, 1d6 or 1d8, if you're a medium creature. The Improvised Weapon Mastery feat implies that a two-handed weapon can at most do 1d8 dmg, so smaller improvised weapon should deal less than that.
Gardening Shovel
Light weapon, 1d4 dmg
Shovel
One-handed weapon, 1d6 dmg
Destroyer of gravel, Banisher of dirt, Scourge of the earth elementals
Two-handed weapon, 1d8 dmg
It's a pretty versatile weapon, too. You could hit enemies with the flat side for bludgeoning, stab them for piercing, or simply cut them for slashing.
@Wonderstall Dam son. You got this down.
Alright, character is shaping up (unfort probs won't see play before 2e is released. Sad face.).
I'm thinking a Makeshift Scrapper Rogue (I don't think Unchained Rogue would work well with the 2-H shovel javelin building). With the Rough and Ready trait for his glorious shovel. I'm yhinking probably profession (farmer) for the shovel tool? Still no idea on race though.
If a shovel is a one handed weapon, then you could be a Tiefling with big arms and use a size large shovel as a 2H weapon. Might be able to milk some more damage out of it. But then you have to be a Tiefling.
If you're going to be a Rogue, the Drow race would be good flavor.
Makeshift Scrapper looks like exactly what you need. And it stacks with Eldritch Scoundrel if you want some wizardry.
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You can also be an Inquisitor, using Bane/Greater Bane for your main source of damage.
As an Inquisitor you could dig through the ditches, and burn through the witches.
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You can also be an Inquisitor, using Bane/Greater Bane for your main source of damage.
As an Inquisitor you could dig through the ditches, and burn through the witches.
and then slam into the back of your dragula?
My bad. I'm a little slow today.
Five feats and a trait is quite a commitment just for RP fluff and story, though. I just have it on my mind because I made an NPC Gunslinger with all of this just so I could have someone without eyeholes in their helmet. Lol.
Hellknight Signifiers have no eyeholes in their facemasks.
Signifer Mask (Su): Upon initiation, a Hellknight signifer receives a mask, often devoid of eyeholes or other personal features. This mask doesn’t obscure the Hellknight signifer’s vision, and while wearing it he gains a +2 competence bonus on Sense Motive checks and on saving throws against spells and abilities that rely on visual effects.
Alright, after considering, I'm feeling either Dwarf or Human for the race choice.
Dwarf, I imagine the character as "farm mom".
Stats:
Str 17
Dex 14
Con 11
Int 13
Wis 12
Cha 8
She's a pinch socially awkward but she's nice and makes pies. When those nasty giants or goblins get into her fields though they get the shovel!
Human is a bit more of a grizzled mysterious stranger.
Stats:
Str 17 (racial choice)
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 13
Cha 10
Then using the bonus feat to start with combat expertise and improved dirty trick. He keeps to himself when he can, but get him involved you get a faceful of dirt followed by a shovel to the face.
Thoughts?
EDIT: The dwarf starting feat choice would be Two-Handed Thrower, which is also important to the shovel-throwing build.
I !like the Dirty Fighting feat more than Combat Expertise, personally.
I !like the Dirty Fighting feat more than Combat Expertise, personally.
Not that I horribly disagree with you, I think regular Expertise though is a little better for this character.
As a Rogue, only gets light armor proficiencies, and focusing Str rather than Dex in order to 2h leaves the character's AC really lacking. Expertise can make a little bit of a difference, and is a little easier to apply than Shield of Swings later. Though will likely still be going down some of the PA line.
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I just remembered This guy from an old movie... may he bring inspiration. ;)
Dual-wield some gardening trowels [reskinned daggers] when you can't use your shovel.
Now here's a dilemma. I was all about settled on shovel damage till perusing oner Improvised Weapon Mastery in more detail.
You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised weapon. Increase the amount of damage dealt by the improvised weapon by one step (for example, 1d4 becomes 1d6) to a maximum of 1d8 (2d6 if the improvised weapon is two-handed). The improvised weapon has a critical threat range of 19–20, with a critical multiplier of ×2.
So a one hander would likely ballpark 1d6 according to the feat (capping at 1d8) but a two-hander caps 2d6. That's a big difference, three steps. (1d8-1d10-1d12-2d6) Improvised weapons use damage similar to a weapon of the same rough shape, however, we do have the Mattock of the Titans for ref. A Gargantuan Warhammer base 4d6 is it's comparison, so if we scale that back, we've got Gargantuan to Medium, we've supposedly got 3 steps? Gargantuan-Huge-Large-Medium?
So 4d6-3d8-3d6-2d8? That's still 4 stages above a medium warhammer's 1d8. Unless you use the natural attack size scaling. 4d6-2d8-2d6-1d8... 3.5 appears to have sometimes skipped 1d10, or replaced 1d12 with 2d6 in weapon size scaling, and 1d12 weapons tended to jump to 3d6.
Long story, stuff is confusing. What is a damage die up? Same as a size category up? And if a Mattock (which is more a hoe than a shovel) is a Warhammer then what is a full sized handed spade? Hell, Mattock is in Ultimate Equipment as a 2d4 fragile two-handed weapon. I feel like 1d8 sounds about right for a 2h shovel, similar to a spear, but what's it's damage dice up?
Read through this, it will be a lot clearer when you do.
1d8 increases to 2d6, as explained in the FAQ. Do note that 1d12 is equal to 2d6.
Also, the increase may seem big, but it's only +2.5 average damage per attack. If you want to play as a Rogue, I'd recommend you to make a Sniping build and use that sneak attack dice instead of relying on your weapon. Also, you're gonna need Dexterity to actually hit them on a 3/4 BAB class. So either use the Sneak Attack or change to a class more kind to throwing builds.
If it's a 2H improvised weapon, it does 2D6 with that feat. It could be a flagpole or a shovel or a broom, you're the weapon it's just a tool, you make it do 2D6.
I would use the monks spade for reference since a spade is literally a shovel. Yours won't have the crescent on the end making it a double weapon, you just have the spade end, or shovel if you will. It's still a 2H improvised weapon that would be treated with the rules associated with polearms or spears. Probably need the Two Handed Thrower feat to toss it around.
Also, the increase may seem big, but it's only +2.5 average damage per attack. If you want to play as a Rogue, I'd recommend you to make a Sniping build and use that sneak attack dice instead of relying on your weapon. Also, you're gonna need Dexterity to actually hit them on a 3/4 BAB class. So either use the Sneak Attack or change to a class more kind to throwing builds.
Recommendation taken. End build I'm going with the dwarf, Str 17, Dex 14, so not terrible for the throwing but very good for the 1.5 Str extra damage. Gonna go with the Power Attack, (possibly also Deadly Aim? Though it doesn't get 1.5 on 2h) And due to the rogue archtype giving Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything, I can sub the Rough and Ready trait for Surprise Weapon, getting a +2 instead of just +1.
It's only too bad the Str to thrown attack rolls is a 3rd party feat, and I'm trying to keep as in core (with a few dips to companion. Fewer=Better) as possible.
I just remembered This guy from an old movie... may he bring inspiration. ;)
Dual-wield some gardening trowels [reskinned daggers] when you can't use your shovel.
Yep. I posted images of the same guy last night. Great movie.
/cevah
Been watching a little too much Far Cry 5, wherein the shovels are broken beyond belief as a ranged javelin-type weapon.
The ones with the smiley-face are like one-shot kills. Jeesh.
(That game is definitely worth a walk-through.)
~ ~ ~
Pathfinder already has a shovel listed in Ultimate Equipment:
"Price 2 gp (common), 10 gp (folding); Weight 8 lbs. (common), 12 lbs. (folding)
This tool lets you dig a pit at a rate of 2 cubic feet per minute. If a shovel is used in combat, treat it as a one-handed improvised weapon that deals bludgeoning damage equal to that of a club of its size.
Folding Shovel: A folding shovel is a full-sized shovel with a sturdy sectional handle that folds into pieces no longer than the shovel blade, allowing it to fit in a smaller space such as a backpack. Converting the shovel from its folded state to usable (or vice versa) is 2 full-round actions."
Since this is baloney that defies all reason (one-handed weapon...huh?), I strongly recommend ignoring it unless you're in PFS.
Slim Jim's Choppy Shoppe
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Shovel ("weapon quality!"): 302gp, S:1d6 M:1d8, crit:20x3, range:10 ft., 9 lbs. Slashing, Blocking and Disarm properties
(This masterwork shovel is made from a higher grade of steel capable of accepting a blade-worthy edge, and a sturdier hardwood haft fitted with a metal guard for additional protection. A shovel is a two-handed improvised weapon that can be thrown one-handed; using it one-handed in melee or throwing with two hands incurs an additional -4 penalty to attack and negates its special properties.)
"Ask about our special-order mithral/darkwood-haft double-weapon shovels!" <stock currently 'out'>
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Slim Jim's Choppy Shoppe
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Shovel ("weapon quality!"): 302gp, S:1d6 M:1d8, crit:20x3, range:10 ft., 9 lbs. Slashing, Blocking and Disarm properties(This masterwork shovel is made from a higher grade of steel capable of accepting a blade-worthy edge, and a sturdier hardwood haft fitted with a metal guard for additional protection. A shovel is a two-handed improvised weapon that can be thrown one-handed; using it one-handed in melee or throwing with two hands incurs an additional -4 penalty to attack and negates its special properties.)
"Ask about our special-order mithral/darkwood-haft double-weapon shovels!" <stock currently 'out'>
*gawks in awe* I'll take ten! XD
I’ve never seen any shovel-knight media, but stumbled across a pic a few years back and was briefly infatuated with the idea of creating and playing such a character. Such a fun picture. Ultimately I did not, because well... its kind of silly. :)