Well, not wanting to buy three books when I can buy two doesn't make me poor, I just have other things to spend the extra money on, especially with a teenager in the house.Yes, but you aren't gated. You can still just buy two books and get the 3rd's information online. And it would probably make the CRB cheaper.
What I'm trying to say about accessibility is that getting people to play Pathfinder at all with a smaller introductory book is more important for Pathfinder than some convenience.
While there are a group of people like yourself who won't buy the GMG if it's separate, I believe you still get a lot because the CRB will be a better experience, the CRB will be cheaper, and the GMG material you get online will be more thorough.
Good luck with that, my point still stands, I have better things to spend my money on.
There is nothing you can say that will convince me otherwise.
Well, not wanting to buy three books when I can buy two doesn't make me poor, I just have other things to spend the extra money on, especially with a teenager in the house.Yes, but you aren't gated. You can still just buy two books and get the 3rd's information online. And it would probably make the CRB cheaper.
What I'm trying to say about accessibility is that getting people to play Pathfinder at all with a smaller introductory book is more important for Pathfinder than some convenience.
While there are a group of people like yourself who won't buy the GMG if it's separate, I believe you still get a lot because the CRB will be a better experience, the CRB will be cheaper, and the GMG material you get online will be more thorough.
Good luck with that, my point still stands, I have better things to spend my money on.
There is nothing you can say that will convince me otherwise.
What if I tickle your belly?
That's not saying, now is it?
But then, you knew that!
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None of my 20+ players have a Core Rulebook. They're all using PRD/d20pfsrd/AoN out of their phones.
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Of course. We've all seen it; one of the Players at my Saturday game uses his phone.
But should Paizo be concerning themselves with these gamers over the gamers who buy the books and don't use the d20pfsrd? I use the books. Oddly, 4/5ths of the gamers in my three groups use the books. (We, the dinosaurs!)
We're the ones spending money on Paizo's products. Not you who don't buy anything from Paizo.
Obviously Paizo should listen to and consider all Pathfinder gamers -- but should those of us who actually purchase the products be given a little more consideration? Or no?
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PF1 CRB: $49.99, 576 pages ($9.99 for PDF)
PF1 B1: $44.99, 320 pages ($9.99 for PDF)Total cost: $94.98 (or $19.98 for PDF)
Total pages: 896
Cost per page: 10.6¢ (or 2.2¢ for PDF)DND 5E PHB: $49.95, 320 pages (no PDF)
DND 5E DMG: $49.95, 320 pages (no PDF)
DND 5E MM: $49.95, 352 pages (no PDF)Total cost: $149.85
Total pages: 992
Cost per page: 15.1¢Purely from a value perspective, I'll take Paizo's business model in a heartbeat.
It's worth noting that the PF1 prices are now a decade of inflation lower.
Starfinder is $59.99. So expect the PF1 core book to be similar.
Alien Archive is 160-pages and $39.99. Total price per page there is 14.5¢ That's not a heck of a lot lower than WotC.
Expect a 320-page Bestiary to be closer to $49.99, if not $54.49.
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The thing is... Paizo's probably going to release a GMG regardless. Because there's too much optional and GMing content not to.
Thus, the question is NOT whether that book should exist or not. It's whether or not they should cut down the size of the Core Rulebook for players, making that book significantly less intimidating AND cheaper. If they should reduce the cost to players from $59.99 to $49.99.
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None of my 20+ players have a Core Rulebook. They're all using PRD/d20pfsrd/AoN out of their phones..
Of course. We've all seen it; one of the Players at my Saturday game uses his phone.
But should Paizo be concerning themselves with these gamers over the gamers who buy the books and don't use the d20pfsrd? I use the books. Oddly, 4/5ths of the gamers in my three groups use the books. (We, the dinosaurs!)
We're the ones spending money on Paizo's products. Not you who don't buy anything from Paizo.
Obviously Paizo should listen to and consider all Pathfinder gamers -- but should those of us who actually purchase the products be given a little more consideration? Or no?
Well, Paizo's business model was always more based on the APs and other adventures than the core rules stuff, so really, I'm not sure what means you use to access the rules is super relevant to their bottom line. Almost certainly not as relevant as whether you're playing an AP or other published adventure.
But I don't think Paizo is gonna play favorites like this. They just want to make a good game for everyone.
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None of my 20+ players have a Core Rulebook. They're all using PRD/d20pfsrd/AoN out of their phones.Of course. We've all seen it; one of the Players at my Saturday game uses his phone.
But should Paizo be concerning themselves with these gamers over the gamers who buy the books and don't use the d20pfsrd? I use the books. Oddly, 4/5ths of the gamers in my three groups use the books. (We, the dinosaurs!)
We're the ones spending money on Paizo's products. Not you who don't buy anything from Paizo.
Obviously Paizo should listen to and consider all Pathfinder gamers -- but should those of us who actually purchase the products be given a little more consideration? Or no?
Well, Paizo's business model was always more based on the APs and other adventures than the core rules stuff, so really, I'm not sure what means you use to access the rules is super relevant to their bottom line. Almost certainly not as relevant as whether you're playing an AP or other published adventure.
But I don't think Paizo is gonna play favorites like this. They just want to make a good game for everyone.
I sure hope they will. We’re speaking about the layout of the books, not the content of the game - why not ask the people who are going to buy them over the people who aren’t?
I sure don’t think they should ask me how I’d like the online options laid out.
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Regarding making things easier for new players, while I can see the argument for making a cheaper player's book, I also think there's value in not making new GMs play an extra premium in order to share the game with friends.
Since one of my favourite things to do as GM is tinker with new creatures and items and whatnot, I would definitely like a dedicated book with all of the "create-a-thing" sections in it, rather than spread out over several books. Yes, it makes sense how they did it in PF1e with each "create-a-thing" section being in the book relevant to the "thing", but with PF2nd they could theoretically put that ahead of the curve, so to speak. Creating new monsters became a bit awkward in PF1e because iirc there's at least two-three books that make up the important bits of monster creation.