How do operatives stack up without their extra damage?

[gustavo iglesias]

Batgirl_III wrote:

It’s more “simulationist” than “cinematic,” which is why D&D/Pathfinder heroes do way less damage with a dagger than they do a longsword*. Because daggers suck compared to swords. Likewise, in SF we see that handguns do way less damage than longarms**. Because handguns do suck compared to rifles and shotguns.

That's not true.

A Lvl 20 fighter with greater weapon specialization, Weapon mastery, +5 weapons, and STR 28, does 1d8+21 with a longsword and 1d4+21 with a dagger, which is a absolutely minor difference, specially when you take in account that a dagger has some extra benefits to balance it out, such as being a thrown weapon.

The difference between a dagger and a longsword is minimal, at best, because you add your regular stat bonuses, such as STR, magic, or specialization, regardless of which weapon you use, and the difference in damage potential from damage dice is pointless (2 points average between dagger and longsword).

In Starfinder you add HALF your level instead of your level with a small arm, and the diference in damage potential is enormous. A Paragon Reaction Cannon does 12d10 (12d8 for seeker rifle), while a gyrojet elite pistol does 5d12.

[Torbyne]

Garfaulk Sharpstone wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

Thank you for your advice and input, everyone. Though I maintain that a heavy weapons operative could get by without trick attack, it seems abundantly clear that it is not without great cost.

I guess such a character trope was never meant to be. Sigh.

It can be done, just takes some investment and an extra arm.

Weapon prof long arms
Weapon prof heavy arms
Weapon spec

Now, the trick to make it really work is a third arm with a pistol. Use trick attack once you have debilitating trick to make them flat footed, shooting them twice next round.

It might be easier to maze core an operative and heavy weapon together?

[Ravingdork]

Torbyne wrote:

Garfaulk Sharpstone wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

Thank you for your advice and input, everyone. Though I maintain that a heavy weapons operative could get by without trick attack, it seems abundantly clear that it is not without great cost.

I guess such a character trope was never meant to be. Sigh.

It can be done, just takes some investment and an extra arm.

Weapon prof long arms
Weapon prof heavy arms
Weapon spec

Now, the trick to make it really work is a third arm with a pistol. Use trick attack once you have debilitating trick to make them flat footed, shooting them twice next round.

It might be easier to maze core an operative and heavy weapon together?

I wonder if that's what StarLord does. His duo-pronged blaster seems to have a "pew pew" mode and a "wham" mode. :D

[Torbyne]

Ravingdork wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

Garfaulk Sharpstone wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

Thank you for your advice and input, everyone. Though I maintain that a heavy weapons operative could get by without trick attack, it seems abundantly clear that it is not without great cost.

I guess such a character trope was never meant to be. Sigh.

It can be done, just takes some investment and an extra arm.

Weapon prof long arms
Weapon prof heavy arms
Weapon spec

Now, the trick to make it really work is a third arm with a pistol. Use trick attack once you have debilitating trick to make them flat footed, shooting them twice next round.

It might be easier to maze core an operative and heavy weapon together?

I wonder if that's what StarLord does. His duo-pronged blaster seems to have a "pew pew" mode and a "wham" mode. :D

Naw, minor technomantic power, he bluffs his guns into acting as heavy weapons.

[quindraco]

Batgirl_III wrote:

Quindraco, can you explain further? I’m not getting why those are problematic for the Operative... Maybe I’m just dense.

Same problem pre-FAQ sniper rifles had - Operatives have no way to Boost a Boost weapon while also Trick Attacking.