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I'm looking for a comprehensive bad touch cleric guide. I've looked in all the usual places but can't seem to find anything. I know the basic idea behind the build, but I'm looking for something well thought out.
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To the extent of my knowledge, there isn't one. There are several threads about the topic though, searching the advice forum should prove fruitful. I know in some of the Cleric guides they have comments on specific builds that should help too.
The creation of a guide for a specific build is a relatively recent occurrence, as far as I can tell. Most of the more common guides to date are focused on a class, rather than a build.
Are you aware of THIS LINK? If it is a guide and if it is related to Pathfinder, it is 99% likely to have been included in this page. Should give you something to work with.
Yeah thanks for that link. I looked through all of those before coming here. Tark's is the only one that talks about it at any length and even then, its not much. Like I said I know the basics, you want to be tank-y, and take a lot of stuff to help you not get hit and increase your mobility, etc, etc.
Separatist N dwarf cleric of Torag with Blessed Hammer, Versatile Channeler, and Channel Smite.
Yeah AFAIK a channeling weapon and maybe sacred hand and channel negative smite can help.
Coupled with accelerated drinker trait and
Vital strike and you got something interesting I think.
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If you want something thought out in a bit of detail, how about you post a few constraints (concept, level range, whether they can be evil, any limits on sources) and we can talk to you about it. I don't know of a guide per se though.
If you want something thought out in a bit of detail, how about you post a few constraints (concept, level range, whether they can be evil, any limits on sources) and we can talk to you about it. I don't know of a guide per se though.
Sure. I have a character concept so I know I wanna play a human female or maybe aasimar. She would be lvl 9 cleric (obviously). No restrictions at all really except no 3rd party stuff.
What I have in mind for the build so far would be:
wis>dex>con=str>int>cha
Madness and Deception subdomain from Trickery I think
Get her some mithril full plate, heavy mithril shield, a cestus, and some boots of springing and striding.
Other than that I don't know what I would do for feats other than pick up heavy armor prof and weapon fineness for unarmed attacks for better touch hits. I don't really know what the best debuff spells are either.
Bestow curse is your gold-standard cleric touch debuff. There are some lower level ones (touch of bloodletting & shackle are notable), they might still be useful with persistent spell applied. I suggest getting that metamagic feat. Plane shift to somewhere particularly lethal like the positive energy plane is your top end touch attack. Use only when you don't care about retrieving their body or gear.
Aside from those spells, don't forget to buff yourself, clerics are good at that and it'd be a waste not to.
On feats you're probably going to want persistent spell (as above) and lunge besides the feats you mentioned.
Guided hand and its channel smite prereq are a possible alternative to weapon finesse if your deity has unarmed strike as their favored weapon, and your GM agrees that it should apply to melee touch attacks as well (the same caution applies to weapon finesse). Though all the Golarion deities with madness & trickery/deception domains seem to have actual weapons (dagger or bladed scarf) as their favored weapon.
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This link Bobo! will serve you well in lieu of a full guide:
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Now that you mention it, Cleric is one of those classes badly in need of an up-to-date guide (and a Bad Touch Cleric guide would be a great place to start).
What's your God, or more specifically, what's your divine weapon .
Ok so you have several choices for weapon, and the weapon is the most important part here I think.
Sivanah does have the balded scarf, which is cool and all, but for a bad touch cleric I'd enjoy something with a nice reach weapon with lots of base damage and good domains(Ideally chaos/madness domain which i'll use as a reference here), as well as the possibility of negative channel.
If you want to be a dex fighter, go with shelyn and her bladed brush feat but then channel smite doest work as well.
I'd go with the following stat array assuming a non dex build:
Assuming 20 point buy:
str: 14, Dex 12 Con 12 Int 7 Wis 18 cha 16 (after racial mod)
I'll go with ghorum here since he ticks off all my boxes and has a vital strike fighting style.
Weapon: TBD (Any weapon with high base damage that is your divine weapon should work, for here we'll say greatsword)
Feats:
1: Chaneling Smite
3: Guided Hand
5: Quick Channel
7: Selective Channel
9: Vital Strike.
You get a +1 Channeling Spell Storing weapon, then every round you gp:
Attack: Vital Striked hit (4d6+STR+enhancement+buffs)using wis to hit, swift action channeled smite to add 5d6(7d6 with phylactery of negative channeling) *0,50 damage to the hit, and then move action negative channel.
Total cost: 3 channel uses, 2 domain power uses.
Effects:
x2 base weapon damage
Spellstoring: bestow curse
Channeling: Chaos domain power (roll 2 times keep worse)
Channeling smite: (with variant channeling madness) save or be confused
Variant quick channel: AOE 5(7)d6 damage, save for half, save not to be confused (if the dm argues the channeling smite doesnt have the roll twice and keep worse clause, this one clearly does).
Alternatively, there's a variant channeling that causes daze, it's rulership, see if your DM allows it.
But this feels like a solid debuff bad touch build.
Also this gives you the whole "titanic blow that does aow damage" feel that seems really awesome.
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What domain is Rulership associated with? I cant seem to find any information about it other than its variant abilities
AlastarOG
This is a really cool build but its not what I have in mind when I think of a bad touch cleric. What I think of is more like what Applied People posted up with Bobos build, basically a cleric that's impossible to hit and walks around the battlefield viciously debriefing guys. When I was thinking about playing the Bobo type of cleric, however, I kept thinking to myself, "But what do I do when I've debuffed the few mobs were fighting?" I wonder if there can be a melding of the two builds, one that lets you hit hard how Alastar is thinking and one that lets you do what Bobo does as well. I think the hard part would be the channels, because the Bobo build dumps Cha and doesn't care about channeling at all and focuses more on getting his DCs as high as possible.
If you can Channel Smite in a bad status effect, you could more effectively normal Channel it in, and hit a lot of opponents without having to worry about losing your Channel due to a miss. I still haven't found anything redeeming about Channel Smite except as a feat tax for Guided Hand.
Edit: Otherwise, save the feat you would have spent on Channel Smite for Selective Channeling.
If you can Channel Smite in a bad status effect, you could more effectively normal Channel it in, and hit a lot of opponents without having to worry about losing your Channel due to a miss. I still haven't found anything redeeming about Channel Smite except as a feat tax for Guided Hand.
Edit: Otherwise, save the feat you would have spent on Channel Smite for Selective Channeling.
In the above build it is a feat tax, but because it's a feat tax doesn't mean we can't use it.
In the above build it is a feat tax, but because it's a feat tax doesn't mean we can't use it.If you can Channel Smite in a bad status effect, you could more effectively normal Channel it in, and hit a lot of opponents without having to worry about losing your Channel due to a miss. I still haven't found anything redeeming about Channel Smite except as a feat tax for Guided Hand.
Edit: Otherwise, save the feat you would have spent on Channel Smite for Selective Channeling.
Oops -- when looking at the surrounding messages, I missed that Guided Hand was actually in your build.
Although if I was going to do use it like that, I'd be tempted to go Human for the Bonus Feat so that I could get Guided Hand online at 1st level (effectively treating it like a double-width feat).
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Ok so you have several choices for weapon, and the weapon is the most important part here I think.
Sivanah does have the balded scarf, which is cool and all, but for a bad touch cleric I'd enjoy something with a nice reach weapon with lots of base damage and good domains(Ideally chaos/madness domain which i'll use as a reference here), as well as the possibility of negative channel.
If you want to be a dex fighter, go with shelyn and her bladed brush feat but then channel smite doest work as well.
I'd go with the following stat array assuming a non dex build:
Assuming 20 point buy:
str: 14, Dex 12 Con 12 Int 7 Wis 18 cha 16 (after racial mod)
I'll go with ghorum here since he ticks off all my boxes and has a vital strike fighting style.
Weapon: TBD (Any weapon with high base damage that is your divine weapon should work, for here we'll say greatsword)
Feats:
1: Chaneling Smite
3: Guided Hand
5: Quick Channel
7: Selective Channel
9: Vital Strike.You get a +1 Channeling Spell Storing weapon, then every round you gp:
Attack: Vital Striked hit (4d6+STR+enhancement+buffs)using wis to hit, swift action channeled smite to add 5d6(7d6 with phylactery of negative channeling) *0,50 damage to the hit, and then move action negative channel.
Total cost: 3 channel uses, 2 domain power uses.
Effects:
x2 base weapon damage
Spellstoring: bestow curse
Channeling: Chaos domain power (roll 2 times keep worse)
Channeling smite: (with variant channeling madness) save or be confused
Variant quick channel: AOE 5(7)d6 damage, save for half, save not to be confused (if the dm argues the channeling smite doesnt have the roll twice and keep worse clause, this one clearly does).Alternatively, there's a variant channeling that causes daze, it's rulership, see if your DM allows it.
But this feels like a solid debuff bad touch build.
Also this gives you the whole "titanic blow that does aow damage" feel that seems really awesome.
I made a few tweaks to this. This is using a 25 point buy
Human Fighter 1\Cleric 8 of Groetus. Chaos and Madness Domains (variant channel).10
12
13
10
18 (racial bonus)
16
Feats:
Improved Initiative
Weapon Focus: Heavy Flail
Channeling Smite
Guided Hand
Quick Channel
Selective Channel
Vital Strike
Traits: Initiative, Fort, and Ref traits.
Drawback: Probably Umbral Unmasking cause its awesome.
The gear you described plus some mithral full plate, boots of striding and springing, negative channel phylactery.
Took the level in Fighter to get the heavy armor prof and the extra feat. Put some in dex and took imp initiative since ill be debuffing and want to get that started ASAP.
This build is so dependent on its weapon though...if something happened to you your be SOL so hard.
Did you have a particular archetype in mind for this cleric or going vanilla?
Did you have a particular archetype in mind for this cleric or going vanilla?
Just vanilla. Delicious vanilla...
I made a few tweaks...A build
Nice tweak!! I'm glad you like the feel.
Maybe snag craft wondrous items instead of weapon focus or improved initiative in order to spank the WBL guidelines?
P.S: Take that internet, just won this thread!! Alastar out!! **Mic drop****Exit stage**