Make a bomb for 30,000 gold?

[Sunstream]

I'm running Carrion Crown for a group of friends, and they're nearing the end. While gearing up at a wizard npc I made up, one player decided he didn't need anything else, and instead gave the wizard 30,000 gold and said "Make the biggest bomb you can." He then gave him his Ring of Retribution to be used as part of the bomb, preferably the trigger.
So now I ask you, experienced community, to help me satisfy my player. A few things to keep in mind.
The wizard doesn't strictly work alone. If a specific feat or class ability is needed, make up any npc you need to.
Forget how long it would normally take to make by RAW. They're nearing the end of the campaign, I'm letting them have at it.
They won't be carrying it themselves. The wizard will get it to them once they've decided where it'll go; the Witchgates won't be an issue.
Don't feel obligated to include the ring in the bomb. The player is pretty lenient, so he wouldn't be too upset if it wasn't.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

30,000 gp for a bomb?

That Wizard NPC's name better be Oppenheimer....

[Tacticslion]

.

[Lady-J]

for that cost maybe 2-5 mile aoe with 100d10 damage?

[Coidzor]

In mundane terms, 30,000 gp will buy you 30 kegs of gunpowder. Or, if you have a Gunslinger or someone with the relevant feat, 300 kegs of gunpowder.

Each one is a basic 5d6 non-magical Fireball. So that's worth either 150 or 1500 d6s of fire damage.

A Necklace of Fireballs amounts to about 150 gp per d6 of fire damage when storebought. So that's about 200d6 of fire damage by that ratio. 400d6 worth when actually crafting.

[RealAlchemy]

I'm thinking about a necklace of fireballs, some alchemical fire, and some gunpowder. put it all in a big pile with some explosive runes, and read the runes with a spyglass.

[the David]

Interesting. The ring of retribution is already worth 15000 gp, so we get up to 45000 gp to play with. I'm assuming the player wants the same benefits as the standard ring. (Immediate action, once per day.)

The second thing that comes to mind is comparing this with a weapon enhancement bonus. The ring does 10d6, the player wants it to do more damage so let's make it quadratic like a weapon. 10x10x150=15000gp for 10d6 so 1x1x150 would get you 1d6 and 2x2x150 would get you 2d6.
17x17x150=43350gp. Just a little short of our budget of 45000 gp, it should do 17d6 worth of fire damage now.
Ofcourse, you could always go lineair. In that case your fireball would do 30d6 fire damage.

The first thing that comes to mind is using the formula for making magic items. (Spell level x caster level x Y.) 15000/7/13=164.84gp. Let's just say it's 165gp.
8x15x165=19800gp (15d6 for an intensified quickened fireball, or quickened level 4 spell.)
9x17x165=25245gp (quickened level 5 spell.)
9x20x165=29700gp (quickened level 5 spell but at caster level 20.)
9x30x165=44550gp (quickened level 5 spell but at caster level 30.)

So, that's about the best you can do if you want to keep the benefits from the ring. (Again, my assumption is that the player wanted a stronger ring of retribution.) Have fun!

Edit: Keep in mind that the DC would not go up if you use metamagic.

[Wultram]

Well forum monster ate my original post, but I think I remember the relevant bits.

Here is my idea to use as much of the rules as can be done while still getting something worthwhile and not overpowered.

1) We take intensified empowered delayed fireball at CL 20. 37d6 (129,5dmg on average.) With a bith of rounding, let's call it a bulk discount it costs 4k. (I am using 9th level scroll as basis for the price)
2) We take Widen metamagic gem for 2k.
3) So we get 5 of those for the 30k.

So instead of coming up with the ridiculous amount of damage of those combined let's increase the area. 40ft radius is roughly 5k square feet, so 25k total. That is equivalent to roughly 90ft radius. Which in practice is almost as big as half of a football(soccer) field.

The damage in turn is roughly enough to destroy 8 inches of stone. Combined with the area this should be enough to damage any building enough to let it fall under it's own weight(or at least the ongoing fire will) if it isn't outright destroyed.(assuming there isn't magical protections or made out of something ridiculous like adamantine)

The spell itself is already bit like a time delayed bomb so it fits and since the ring was given we can assume that covers the deal of being able to detonate all of this in a single go.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Lesser Helm of Brilliance is affordable as a "supernuke" if you sell the Ring of Retribution, and doesn't really require a hand-held detonator of any kind. All you gotta do is keep all of the gems on it active, and hit it with fire damage.

So, here's the projected plan for this sort of item.

Step 0: Cast Resist Energy (Fire) on party members.

Step 0.5: Make sure the enemy you're using this against does not have immunity or high resistance to Fire damage.

Step 1: Throw Helm of Brilliance at the same space as the enemy, or adjacent if you can't land it in their space. (If they have a bad Will and/or Reflex saving throw, Beguiling Gift may be preferable.)

Step 2: Use a Fire-based spell on the Helm of Brilliance (Fireball can work).

Step 3: Hope the Helm of Brilliance fails its saving throw against the spell. (The higher the Spell's DC, the more likely the helm will fail. If equipped, the helm uses the wearer's saving throw instead if it's higher; keep this in mind if going this route.)

Step 4: All of the gems in the helm explode, and their effects take place on the space it was thrown at. The Fireballs explode for 10D6 each, the Flaming Spheres occupy the space and the enemy has to make 20 Reflex Saves, and 30 or so Scorching Rays hit random enemies (if behind total cover, or on the creature's space, they will most likely all hit the creature).

Step 5: ???

Step 6: Profit.

[the David]

Wultram wrote:

1) We take intensified empowered delayed fireball at CL 20. 37d6 (129,5dmg on average.) With a bit of rounding, let's call it a bulk discount it costs 4k. (I am using 9th level scroll as basis for the price)

2) We take Widen metamagic gem for 2k.
3) So we get 5 of those for the 30k.

So instead of coming up with the ridiculous amount of damage of those combined let's increase the area. 40ft radius is roughly 5k square feet, so 25k total. That is equivalent to roughly 90ft radius. Which in practice is almost as big as half of a football(soccer) field.

The damage in turn is roughly enough to destroy 8 inches of stone. Combined with the area this should be enough to damage any building enough to let it fall under it's own weight(or at least the ongoing fire will) if it isn't outright destroyed.(assuming there isn't magical protections or made out of something ridiculous like adamantine)

The spell itself is already bit like a time delayed bomb so it fits and since the ring was given we can assume that covers the deal of being able to detonate all of this in a single go.

A Delayed Blast Fireball does 20d6 damage at CL 20, so Intensified Spell will get you nowhere. Your nuke would "only" do 20d6x1.5. (You multiply the damage by 1.5, not the number of dice.) However, it would cost 9x20x25=4500. (Empower Spell adds 2 levels to a level 7 spell, you never would have been able to add Intensified Spell in the first place.)

The Widening Metamagic Gem is cheesey. (If used in this way.) I would never allow it, but if I would I'd add the 1.5 cost multiplier for multiple different abilities.
I just looked it up and this gem has a price of 4000gp, so it would cost you 6000gp instead if you want to add it to a magic item. (I think you listed the cost to create it. This character is buying a custom build item, not making it.)
That's 10500 gp for one of those babies and it still only does 20d6x1.5. It would also still take a standard action to activate.

[Wultram]

That is what I get for rewriting from memory. Yeah CL 20 was intended as a base which to stack things from to CL 25. But the price on the gem was a mistake, I was looking at crafting costs. I do not see why it is somehow cheesy to use a consumable item, for pricing purposes for a one off item.

But yeah would need to do the math again. Still the base idea functions just fine.

[Thornborn]

Just so you know, that last season of Farscape is not considered the best part of the series. Just sayin'.

But to stay helpful, consider Shrink Item, Oil of Timelessness, and make up Vinegar of Regret, which undoes the Oil. Stack layers of reactive shrunk-stuffs in a haversack, with something to release the Vinegar on queue.

[the David]

Wultram wrote:

That is what I get for rewriting from memory. Yeah CL 20 was intended as a base which to stack things from to CL 25. But the price on the gem was a mistake, I was looking at crafting costs. I do not see why it is somehow cheesy to use a consumable item, for pricing purposes for a one off item.

But yeah would need to do the math again. Still the base idea functions just fine.

Well, you're basically making an epic level spell.

Delayed Blast Firebal + Empower + Intensify + Widen = level 13.
13 x 25 x 50 = 16250.

So 16250 gp would be the "normal" price of such an item if the DM was foolish enough to let you make one. The CL may need to be 27 in which case the price goes up even more. I don't see the reason to give anyone that big a discount. It still would be activated like a scroll, and I still wouldn't see any reason to allow anyone to activate more than one at once. That's what you paid for, so that's what you get.

I may have not mentioned this before, but DON'T GIVE YOUR PLAYERS A NUKE!

[Wultram]

You do realize that with either metamagic rods(greater) or said gems, you can go above 9th level spells. This is not something new. And given that I specifically limited the item in question to increasing area instead of allowing the 'spells' to overlap it is far cry from a nuke.

Actual caster with 9th level slots that would actually be focused on blasting, would laugh at the amount of damage done.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

I'd probably just go for a plot device. Look through the rest of the adventure, decide which encounters and places you would be fine with destroying without a chance to survive (not HP damage, no save, just blown away) and let them auto-destroy pretty much whatever they want in whatever radius seems cool at the time.
It's the end of a campaign, it's a one-off item and probably not something the players are going to try again.