Stealth, concealment, operative


Rules Questions


So I've a Ghost Operative lvl 4. Soon, I'll get Cloaking Field. And I'm still lost between Cloaking field, stealth, concealment, total concealment, cover, unseen, aware of presence, aware of location, perception checks (when), light and invisibility, precise senses and imprecise senses.

Is there a good guide over there for that? Or can someone explain it to me with some good examples covering most cases?

Example: About cloaking field, it says it does not end but it ends that particular attempt, does that mean when I attack (after putting the cloak then sneaking), I can still maintain total concealment if I make another stealth vs. perception check immediately after?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

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Ok!


  • Attacking while using the cloaking field doesn't end the cloaking field, it just ends the Stealth attempt to hide in plain sight for that round. So you're field is still active (and you don't have to use a move action next round to activate it again) but until you attempt to hide again. So, you could for example be hiding at the beginning of your turn, attack, and then use your move action to make the Stealth check again to hide (even as part of your move action with no penalty if you move half your speed)

  • Stealth is the skill you would use to make a check, for example, to hide. You don't have to have any ranks in Stealth to attempt a check since its untrained, you use your Dex for the check, and armor check penalty applies.

  • Concealment regards line of sight (if the creature can actually see you) but not line of effect (if they throw a grenade and your square is within the blast radius) and regular concealment is like hiding behind a something that doesn't quite cover you completely. Every attack targeting you has a 20% chance of missing you.

  • Total Concealment is like if you were hiding behind a large barrier that covers you completely. The enemy can't see you (they might still know you're there), they can't directly target you, and any attack in a square occupied by you has a 50% chance to miss.

  • Some things allow attacks to ignore cover (or reduce total to just concealment) which negates or reduces those miss chances.

  • Cover is similar to concealment but it regards line of effect. Regular cover gives you +4 AC and +2 to Reflex saves. This is again similar to hiding behind something like a table that doesn't cover you on all sides.

  • Total cover is like being behind a forcefield or wall or something where they could possibly see you but can't use a grenade or something to reach you with an attack.

  • Unseen is exactly that...you aren't able to be seen. Think of a guard walking into a room where Solid Snake is hiding in a cardboard box. They don't see him.

  • Aware of presence would be where someone knows something is there, but doesn't necessarily see or know exactly where that something is. Think when a guard chases Solid Snake into a room where he hid in a cardboard box. They know you're there but don't know where, look for a little bit, then leave thinking that Snake must've gotten away somehow.

  • Aware of location is where the guards watched Solid Snake go into his cardboard box and shoot the heck outta him.

  • Perception checks are used in so many ways there's no real point to trying to list them out. Just think that any time there's something that *could* be overlooked, a strange smell could tip off something to something else, a sound could alert anything listening, etc...then those are good times to use a Perception check as a GM. As a player you can ask your GM if you can make a Perception check at any time if you think something tricky is afoot or you might have missed something.

  • Light levels determine visibility in an area if a creature doesn't have a way to see without light. Invisibility is just that...you're not visible in the visible spectrum of light (but you might still be able to be smelled or heard).

  • Precise senses are usually vision, or a combination of other senses that are as good as vision.

  • Imprecise senses are senses that let you know the broad picture of a place but not necessarily the exact location of things. Think of it like this, I can smell a skunk that recently sprayed...but I can't tell you exactly where it is by my nose alone.


Many thanks. Great explanation


Thanks a lot really appreciate you taking the time to help :) You are awesome!

Some more questions (sorry I realize I ask a lot, but that's because I will soon have to play and G master it and would like to be less of a noob) because it's still a little nebulous for me, as to how and when to apply bonus and malus.
Let's imagine a fight and if you could tell me all I got wrong there :

I enter a room (operative ghost 5 with holographic projection and cloaking field), a BadGuy sees me, we roll initiative and I got it.

rd 1 - I use Holographic projection (making 1D4 clones of myself) (standard action)
I then use cloaking field (move action) and use stealth (part of move action), and succeed against BadGuy's perception's check. I'm in total concealment, right? He's still aware of my presence and maybe even of my location (maybe with another perception vs stealth check?) but I'm unseen, right?
Let's say he's aware of my location (either because he is, or because he succeed on the second perception check), he tries to shoot me, but he's got 50% miss chance? is that it?

rd 2 - I use a trick attack, shooting him while moving 1/2 speed to go to him and also using stealth as part of the move (my cloaking field is still active). Is that still ok? can you use stealth (which is part of a move action in the move given by a trick attack?
I again succeed against his perception, is he aware of my location? Does he make another perception check then?

He uses his melee weapon to hit where he thinks I am.

And so on.

Basically my questions are: stealth is a part of a move action, can it be used as part of a trick attack (which is a full action with a move included in)?
When I use stealth with cloaking field it says total concealment, so what is the state of awareness of the enemy?
Can I use stealth again immediatly after an attack so that I'm still 'Unseen'? After a trick attack?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

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[list]

  • Round 1, you have this right!
  • Round 2, this unfortunately doesn't work. A Full Action is its own kind of action, and even though it encompasses you moving with the Trick Attack, its still the type of action Full Action which will not allow you to make a Stealth check as part of it.
  • Cloaking Field says you have to remain perfectly still for at least 1 round to gain a +10 bonus to Stealth checks, so be aware of that.
  • You do gain Total Concealment if your opponent does not succeed their Perception check.
  • Total Concealment means they might be aware of you (if you have a 5 crew team and you go invisible and stealth they could become unaware of you easily), and they cannot directly attack you. You are correct that they can attempt to attack a square they think you occupy and you are correct they have a 50% miss chance even if they target the square they think you occupy.
  • Total Concealment's 50% miss chance doesn't apply to weapons with the Blast property. Although its not written, the miss chance should likely ignore concealment as well on weapons with the Explode special property if the concealment isn't provided by something solid.
  • When it comes to awareness, this is kind of a moment-by-moment thing. If the opponent was attacked by you or saw you, and THEN you went invisible then they are very likely aware of you and if they have blindsense then they likely have a general idea of where you are. But going with your scenario, the opponent is aware of your presence but does not know your precise location. Depending on the opponent's Intelligence or Wisdom(remember 10 is an average score) then they might be able to make an educated guess on where you went. This is the amorphous part as obviously the players and the GM can see your mini/token/whatever and know what you declared your character would do. What I typically do in situations like this is for every 2 greater or lesser than the average score (10) I roll for a 20% chance to choose the wrong square to attack. For example, if the opponent has a 12 Int then I roll a d100 and if I get a 1-20 then I choose the right square. A 14 Int would be a 1-40. An 8 Int would be a 1-20 that I chose the wrong square, etc. Also, if it serves the story, then I just choose the right or wrong square somewhat arbitrarily.

    I hope that helps!


  • It helps a lot, and I cannot thank you enough. I will certainly come back from time to time, if some new examples appear in my games, but yeah, it helps a ton.

    I realize that a lot is at the appreciation/ description of the GM: does the bad guy is occupied with other team members, and so on. I guess playing the most logically possible while trying to stick to rules we know should be enough to go through most situations.


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    theheadkase wrote:

    [list]

  • Round 2, this unfortunately doesn't work. A Full Action is its own kind of action, and even though it encompasses you moving with the Trick Attack, its still the type of action Full Action which will not allow you to make a Stealth check as part of it.
  • My biggest issue with this correct RAW is that it also means a lot of OTHER things can't be done during the move part of the trick attack. Like balancing, or fly, or climbing, or jumping, or swimming, or drawing a weapon while moving if you have a +1 BAB, use jump jets, etc.

    Some of these I can maybe see not being allowed (maybe), but honestly, most of them make no sense for not being allowed. It basically invalidates the actual use of the skill acrobatics for the daredevil archetype.
    "ok, I leap onto the table, swing from the chandelier onto the table next to him, and then stab him". Well, sorry, no. according to the RAW, you can walk around the table, making some fancy arm gestures, and then stab him, so you can't end the movement on top of the table.

    Like I said, it IS correct, but imo, it's also dumb and an unnecessary restriction to a keystone power to a class that STILL doesn't make them remotely compare to the bab+1 classes avg damage potential, and HOPE it gets cleared up in an FAQ in a non-dumb way.

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