|
I had a crazy idea for a new PFS character, and was wondering if anyone could help me optimize a build for it.
What I had in mind was a primarily melee focus Alchemist, who uses mutagens to turn himself into a combat powerhouse. The higher level he gets the more the mutations start to become permanent, slowly turning him more and more monstrous.
The 'Tumor Familiar' and 'Tentacles' discoveries seem particularly fitting for this guy. Some others like 'Preserve Organs' and/or 'Mummification', 'Spontaneous Healing' and the assorted Mutagen boosting discoveries as well.
Almost all of the melee alchemist builds I have found all focus on the Vivisectionist archetype, which is not PFS legal, so that is out. I was thinking maybe Half-Orc for the Orc FCB of +10 minutes mutagen duration?
Anyone got any experience running a melee Alchemist in PFS that can help me out?
Beastmorph is PFS legal I think and the main other melee alchemist archetype. I'd think dwarf for the natural armor bonus, or any just for more hit points would be better than mutagen duration, but then I don't play in PFS.
Grenadier can also be made for melee but won't easily look as monstrous IMO.
While feat-intensive (and perhaps more creepy than freakish), the severed hand line of feats could prove quite useful.
Not to mention it keeps your tumor from feeling alone.
The only thing I can really think of is to go for the MASTER CHYMIST prestige class. If you're going Beastmorph (and only going to level 11) you probably just want 1 level of MC, so that you get your level 10 beastmorph bonus. 1 level of MC takes you from 1/day mutagen to 3/day (without having to spend an hour of downtime to re-brew your mutagen).
Also I don't know if MC is PFS legal, but it should be coz it's awesome.
Just bear in mind that Tumor Familiar may be seeing a revision in the future due to the release of Ultimate Wilderness, where they updated some of the familiars and the stats around them.
|
|
I like monsterous grafts + Racial Heritage derro.
I also like a steelblooded I'd rager dip with the dedication spirit. This makes you natural attacks act as onside big. Basically your body is growing and shrinking as you get hit. It provides 2 will boosts iron will and rage.
Finally it let's you use bladelash. Your arm stretches 20ft to make a trip attempt.
I like this combo as the basis of the mutated freak character.
|
|
The Severed Hand feats are interesting, but not giving me the right feel for this character. As a side note, imagine someone with those feats + the Gloves of Feasting
Master Chymist looks interesting...a level 1 dip is probably best, but going for 2 would allow me to grab the Furious advanced mutagen to up my natural attack dice by one step, or level 3 would unlock Brutality for +2 per hit with natural attacks.
I'll have to keep an eye for changes that would affect Tumor Familiar when I get Ultimate Wilderness next week.
I'd love to see some of your build ideas, grappling someone with a tentacle and beating on them with claws and bite attacks sounds like fun. I was thinking the Protector archetype would be good (if a bit cheesy) for this character.
The grafts with derro heritage is an interesting idea. I'll have to look at some of those options.
|
|
My first Alchemist was for PFS and was mostly a melee focused build, and was super fun to play. I dipped one level in Barbarian and spent a feat on extra rage, and that was enough that I rarely needed any more rounds of rage in a scenario. The single level dip in Barbarian also gives medium armor proficency, proficiency with martial weapons and the option of starting with power attack if you take it at first level (or rebuild your first level into it when you hit 2nd level)
Stacking a strength mutagen and rage is often not needed, but it sure is fun when you get to go all out. I would usually hold off on my mutagen till later in scenarios, using a couple rounds of rage most fights to bump up my damage output and accuracy.
I am a big fan of the beastmorph archtype for any alchemist, but especially for a melee focused one. Obviously Feral mutagen is one of the first discoveries that you will want to take. If you do go beastmorph then you won't really need the wings discovery, but it does fit the heavily mutated theme you are wanting for the character. Vestigial arm can be handy for holding onto various things like wands while you make full attack actions with your claws and bite, but you may not really need it (again it fits well with the heavily mutated idea).Of course the tumor familiar and tentacle are both great options for extra mutations on your character as well.
I would also not completely disregard bombs. Frost bomb has a great debuff ability added to it's damage plus it gives you another energy damage type. Even if you aren't going to do much else with bombs, when you get the chance, fast bombs is probably still going to be worth it for the number of times you run into huge things in high level scenarios and want to soften them up before rushing in. This doesn't require much investment in DEX since you are hitting against touch AC for bombs.
Master Chymist looks interesting...a level 1 dip is probably best, but going for 2 would allow me to grab the Furious advanced mutagen to up my natural attack dice by one step, or level 3 would unlock Brutality for +2 per hit with natural attacks.
Just to clarify, taking 3 levels in MC to get the Furious Mutagen advanced discovery and Brutality would net you an average of +3 damage per attack (which is pretty nice). Taking Beastmorph to level 10 would get you Greater Beastform Mutagen, which gives you 3 abilities from BEAST SHAPE 3 (replacing the abilities gained from Beastform/Improved Beastform), most notably POUNCE.
It's up to you whether +3 damage per hit, or the ability to full-attack from a distance is worth more, those are really the benefits of going either way (also you don't really have to decide this till you hit level 9, so you might as well start playing and see what you think).
|
|
Just to clarify, taking 3 levels in MC to get the Furious Mutagen advanced discovery and Brutality would net you an average of +3 damage per attack (which is pretty nice). Taking Beastmorph to level 10 would get you Greater Beastform Mutagen, which gives you 3 abilities from BEAST SHAPE 3 (replacing the abilities gained from Beastform/Improved Beastform), most notably POUNCE.
That definitely sounds better when put into those terms, I have not finished looking into all the beast shape options and mechanics yet.
So...10 levels of Beastmorph Alchemist, 1 level of Master Chymist (maybe more if I take the character into Seeker levels) sounds like the way to go.
For stats, I'm guessing Str>Con=Int>Dex>Wis>Cha?
Feral Mutagen means I won't need the Half-Orc racial bite, but the +10 minutes FCB from Orc could be handy, since mutagens are such a limited resource until I take that level in Master Chymist. The Dwarf FCB of +1/4 natural AC is nice, but their stats are not great, and I don't picture this guy as a dwarf really. I was thinking either Human of Half-Orc (maybe Half-Elf)
|
|
Definitely an interesting build, a bit more convoluted than I think I want to go with this guy, and it doesn't really come online until level 7+, which is a bit late for a PFS character.
I am most likely just going to go 7 Alchemist (Beastmorph), 1 Master Chymist, 3 Alchemist.
I am thinking Feral Mutagen, Tumor Familiar, Tentacle, Preserve Organs, Mummification for my discoveries. Possibly taking an extra discovery feat or 2 depending on what feats I end up with.
Speaking of which...anyone got any recommendations for a natural attacks based character like this? Weapon Focus Claw and/or bite? Power Attack? Not quite sure where to go with my feats.
So...10 levels of Beastmorph Alchemist, 1 level of Master Chymist (maybe more if I take the character into Seeker levels) sounds like the way to go.
If it were me, I'd put 7 levels into Alchemist, 1 level into Master Chymist, 3 more levels into Alchemist (to get that sweet 10th level Beastform), then 9 more levels of Master Chymist. MC does delay your "spell" progression, so you won't get 6th level extracts till level 19 (which is pretty late), but I like the flavour and the mechanics are pretty solid. Since you're in PFS you likely won't care so much about delaying extracts by 1 level, you'll still pick up your 4th level extracts before you finish.
For stats, I'm guessing Str>Con=Int>Dex>Wis>Cha?
Feral Mutagen means I won't need the Half-Orc racial bite, but the +10 minutes FCB from Orc could be handy, since mutagens are such a limited resource until I take that level in Master Chymist. The Dwarf FCB of +1/4 natural AC is nice, but their stats are not great, and I don't picture this guy as a dwarf really. I was thinking either Human of Half-Orc (maybe Half-Elf)
Dwarf stats aren't amazing offensively, but they're incredible defensively. Since you'll be getting 3 attacks at full BAB, you'll likely be hitting with 2-3 of your attacks every round (from level 2 onward). As a d8HD class with only light armour and a slow will-save progression you might find that boosting your defences a bit will help you more on the front line. Also remember that you'll probably be wearing an Amulet of Mighty Fists, so you'll be missing a bit of that AC bonus from an amulet (well you'll be using Bark-skin extracts). +2 AC from your FCB would be nice. Honestly the main drawback of going Dwarf for me is the slow movement speed -_- I'd probably just pick a race you like for the flavour, the class is mechanically strong enough to support just about anything.
|
|
That is basically what I was thinking...this is for PFS, so I probably won't get to play past level 12 (unless I find a GM willing to do Seeker level games)
I'm probably just going to stick with Human for my race, take advantage of the extra feat, as well as an extra skill point per level.
Got any recommendations for feats through level 11?
|
|
Not really interested in the ranged stuff. I was wanting to be more of a melee bruiser, who can chuck a bomb at something if he needs to.
Maybe something along these lines for feats?
1. Dirty Fighting, Combat Reflexes
3. Power Attack
5. Improved Trip
7. Intimidating Prowess
9. Greater Trip
11. Cornugon Smash
Gives me a couple options in combat (Smash, Trip, Intimidate, Bombs, Extracts)
|
|
This is exactly what I'm running for my alchemist. Lemmie tellyall'ya what I have going on.
I find Human to be the best race. Not only are their stats good, but you get the most impact for your theme of corruption and mutation when the base form is something as mundane as a regular person.
In terms of build, I started with Iron Will (which I consider mandatory on my low will damage dealers) and Improved Initiative. II was retrained into Extra Discovery for a scoprion tumor familiar to get the same benefit but with a much better theme. (Protector familiar is ideal but Ultimate Wilderness is killing that option in a reprint.) Other than taking Power Attack at 3rd, every single feat is Extra Discovery. The more the better.
Meisoa's current mutations are Extra Arms x2, Tumor Familiar, Tentacle, Infusion, Spontaneous Healing, and of course, Feral Mutagen. She has max ranks in disguise just to go out in public.
Character theme and roleplay are even more key. Think of WHY your character does what they do. Why they go further and further down the rabbit hole. And of course, why they're a Pathfinder.
For example, Meiosa is a transhumanist who seeks to become something greater one part at a time. Her discoveries (and some extracts) are flavored as her harvesting monster organs and implaning them in her own body.
I'm phone posting at work, so I'll tell you more later. Like awesome extracts and absolute must play modules that are a BLAST for this kind of character.
|
|
I thought about taking the vestigial arm discovery, it fits in flavor-wise...but for a natural attacks based character, they serve no mechanical purpose.
I wasn't planning on taking infusion, since Alchemists can use wands without having to UMD them. I'll pick up a wand of CLW early on, the rest of my formulae will most likely be focused on buffing myself (Enlarge Person, Barkskin, etc)
I may drop the trip feats and replace them with discoveries to get Spontaneous Healing and something else.
As for theme and motivation, I was imagining him having accidentally given himself his first mutations while he was learning, then devoting himself to finding a cure...only the more he tries, the worse he makes it. I picture him joining the Pathfinders and the Dark Archive as part of that quest...he hopes to find the knowledge he needs to cure himself. A definite Jekyll and Hyde type, later on (once he gains his Master Chymist level) his mutagenic form will start to develop its own personality, trying to assert control, etc. I picture him as kind of a mix of Bruce Banner, Henry Jekyll and Wilbur Whateley
I would love to hear your take on extract choices and fun modules (My local GMs are very nice about running requested scenarios)
|
|
Here is my build as it stands so far, I am always open to ways to improve it.
Race: Human
Alignment: NG
Faction: Dark Archive
Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
(All level ups to Str)
Traits: Bruising Intellect, Omen
Items:
Amulet of Mighty Fists +2, Cruel = 36000
Belt of Giant Strength +4 = 16000
Boots of Strinding and Springing = 5000
Cloak of Resistance +3 = 9000
Deliquescent Gloves = 8000
Headband of Vast Intellect +4 = 16000
Mithral Chain Shirt +3 = 10100
Ring of Protection +2 = 8000
1. Alchemy, Bomb 1d6, Extra Bombs, Mutagen, Throw Anything
Feat: Skill Focus Intimidate
Human Bonus Feat: Intimidating Prowess
2. Poison Use
Discovery: Feral Mutagen
3. Beastform Mutagen, Bomb 2d6
Feat: Power Attack
4. Discovery: Tumor Familiar
5. Bomb 3d6
Feat: Extra Discovery: Tentacle
6. Improved Beastform Mutagen
Discovery: Spontaneous Healing
7. Bomb 4d6
Feat: Iron Will
8. Master Chymist 1: Bomb-Thrower, Mutagenic Form (Chaotic Neutral), Mutate 2/day
9. Feat: Cornugon Smash
Discovery: Preserve Organs
10. Bomb 5d6
11. Feat: Extra Discovery: Combine Extracts
Discovery: Mummification
12. Bomb 6d6
|
|
No shield proficiency means I would be taking an armor check penalty to all my attacks, unless I spent a feat on shield proficiency. I could get a shield bonus with no ACP via a mithral buckler without having to use a discovery on an arm or a feat on proficiency.
Not to mention the fact that I could also hold a shield with a tentacle.
|
|
Here is my build as it stands so far, I am always open to ways to improve it.
** spoiler omitted **
Looks pretty good. Intimidate is going to be pretty darn good, but it's a shame it won't really complement your combat until you pick up Detroit Cornugon Smash at 9th level. It would flow a bit better if you had reliable means of dealing nonlethal damage as well as the Enforcer feat, but that ain't quite the Alchemist's style and that's cool too. Consider taking either the Wings discovery or the Beastmorph archetype to give yourself a reliable means of flight that doesn't eat up a 3rd level extract.
Also, you can almost get away with just a Cruel amulet of mighty fists, considering you can spend 2 prestige points to get a potion of Greater Magic Fang. This is one of many potions that you can milk forever thanks to its long duration and the Alchemical Allocation extract.
Owning a shield isn't too big of a deal since Shield is on your 'spell' list. Prepping a 1st level slot is fine, and so is carrying around a wand. Which you could totally have if you had a spare hand or two, wink wink. That, and being able to hold a weapon while using Feral Mutagen and keeping your tentacle open as a grapple option.
In terms of extracts that fit the theme? Countless Eyes is a favorite, since it provides a somewhat decent bonus but it also has a duration that might as well be 24 hours. Also, while it's not quite one extract, the Infusion discovery is pretty fun. Meiosa uses stolen organs as her power, so how does she pass that on? Simple: By bottling symbiotic little fleshlings that bond to a host's body and rapidly mutate into a temporary organ instead.
As for places you should take the character?
From Shore to Sea - Just make sure you have a GM that can do atmosphere. If you play one thing on the list, let it be this.
Broken Chains - While it would work better for Meiosa (her backstory puts her in the exact same shoes as the villains) it still has potential for your character's studies.
#8-08—Tyranny of Winds, Part 1: The Sandstorm Prophecy - You'll really like one of the NPCs here. Not much for him in parts 2 and 3.
That's it off the top of my head, I'll keep you updated (via PMs?) if I remember any more.
|
|
I guess I forgot to state it in the build I posted above, but I will be using the Beastmorph archetype :)
I had not thought about all the fun that could be had with Alchemical Allocation and various potions...that one will probably end up eating up all my level 2 extracts :) This build is going to require a bit of pre-fight buffing to hit his full stride. Too bad the Hybridization Funnel only works on alchemical splash weapons...they need a way to make a potion mixer so I don't have to spend 5+ rounds buffing to be able to fully fight.
I'll keep those scenarios in mind, and yes, feel free to PM me if you think of any others that seem fitting.
|
|
I've made it to 8th level and so far Mutagen, Barkskin, Greater Magic Fang and maybe a Shield on the first round of combat are enough to get the job done. Heroism is just now becoming a thing that I can have up as well. Granted, this is a bit skewed because of my reliance on cheese with a Protector familiar. (Side note, I really hope the changes in Ultimate Wilderness allow me to either retrain the discovery or get a new familiar for free.) I suppose I'm in the market for a new tumor familiar. Mauler seems like a really great way to play up the monster angle.
And yeah, AA is amazing. GMF is a good potion, but so is Fly if you have a couple rounds of time. Remove Blindness/Deafness is the most must-have potion that I never hear PFS players talk about, but make sure to specify that its in an oddly shaped vial so that way you can actually recognize it while blinded. Heroism is a cheeky potion that basically uses a 2nd level slot for a 3rd level extract. Gaseous Form is also nice for bypassing obstacles.
Skim the list of spells and get creative.
|
|
Here are some of the extracts I was thinking about taking as I get free formulae with new levels.
Enlarge Person
Heightened Awareness
Long Arm
Monkey Fish
Shield
True Strike
Alchemical Allocation
Barkskin
Haste
Thorn Body
Greater Invisibility
Countless eyes definitely fits, as do a ton of others, which I might try to buy/inscribe into my formulae list:
Adhesive Blood
Alter Self
Animal Aspect (Greater as well)
Blood Armor
Extreme Flexibility
Ironskin
See Invisibility
Skinsend
Spider Climb
Vine Strike
Amplify Elixir
Bloodhound
Blood Scent
Burrow
Burst of Speed
Displacement
Eruptive Postules
Gaseous Form
Heroism
Rage
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Remove Disease
Resinous Skin
Temporary Graft
Caustic Blood
Dragon’s Breath
Earsend
Echolocation
Eyes of The Void
Fluid Form
Freedom of Movement
Miasmatic Form
Persistent Vigor
Restoration
Rubberskin
Stoneskin
Tail Strike
Touch of Slime
Vitriolic Mist
I could see having 2 bandoleers loaded full of potions in protective iron vials, either know which slot holds what in case of blindness, or have them with different shapes/notches no differentiate them.
With a 14+ Int, you could have 2 Alchemical Allocations a day as soon as you hit level 4, along with the fame to buy 3000gp potions...see below.
Greater magic fang +5 (3000gp for a level 20 potion means 20 hours a day (it would only apply a +1 to all natural weapons, still WAY cheaper than an AoMF, and essentially permanent in exchange for a level 2 extract slot per day)
Resist Energy 30 (1100gp for 110 minutes (per element), not bad if you know you are going to face something heavy on an element)
Sadly Magical Vestments is an oil, not a potion...otherwise you could essentially trade 3000gp and a level 2 extract slot for permanent +5 armor.
Most of the 750gp potions could be good buys as well since you can re-use them as many times as you want...
Unlimited Endure Elements, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Curse, Disease, Lesser Restoration, Cure potions, etc.
|
|
Consider monstrous physique. There are forms that will boost your combat ability by providing things like senses, ac, strength, flight, and extra natural attacks. If you are in a tough spot and only have time for one buff this can be a life saver. Consider it a back up mutagen.
Heroism at a lower level is worth mentioning again for AA. You don't want to fail a will save with a well build alchemist.
Look through elixirs. This is one I like.