What are some good wizard spells to deal with the undead?

[ElyasRavenwood]

What are some good spells for a wizard to deal with the undead....in terms of harming them, in terms of neutralizing their special abilities, in terms of controlling them, In terms of well dealing with them?

For corporeal undead?

Incorporeal undead?

Thank you

[Just a Mort]

Harming undead.

Anything Evocation. Points for dazing. Reflex isn't really a good save for most of them. Burst of radiance - the 5d4 damage to evil creatures has no save, and its reflex or get blinded.

Chill Touch - will save(their strong save) or run as if panicked.

Burning gaze (if dazing) - since it can set objects on fire, it should work for undead as well, and fort is generally not a strong save for undead.

Controlling undead

Command undead. Control Undead. Generally if it creates spawn, please don't try to command it/control it. Because if it gets killed - all the spawn it created is going to come after the party.

Incorporeal

Neutralizing special abilities (partly) - Ghostbane dirge. If it lands that is considering there is a will save(which undeads have lots off) to negate, not to mention the 50% miss chance due to incorp. So it's really a general waste of time.

Neutralizing both Incorporeal and Corporeal special abilities - Anti Magic Field. It screws your party over too...so maybe that wasn't the best idea.

[avr]

Command Undead, obviously. Daylight has its uses. At high levels maybe Undeath Ward. Neutralising special abilities is more the job of a divine caster though. If you just want to kill undead, fire usually works.

What level are you looking at and does said wizard have any feats, school abilities or magic items?

[Ascalaphus]

Harming
Magic Missile (vs. Incorporeal)
Purge Spirit (vs. Incorporeal and Haunts)
Burst of Radiance (easy to place, no save against damage)
Fireball
Scorching Ray
Summon Monster (beatsticks, or something immune to the undead's attack trick, or something to soak up the negative levels so the PCs don't have to...)

Controlling
Command Undead

Battlefield control
Boneshaker ("control" where they're going, like directly into a flank set up by your allies, and away from you)
Grease
Create Pit
Glitterdust (vs invisibility)

Defense
Wand of Mage Armor (in case of incorporeal)
Shield

---

Undead are moderately difficult to take down with magic. Not flat-out impossible but they have many immunities. It can be more efficient to buff teammates to handle them than to try to take them down yourself. Haste, Bull's Strength, Heroism, Fly, Magic Weapon (at low level, so the fighter can harm incorporeals) as well as debuffing (Grease) are effective tools.

[tonyz]

Don’t forget the cantrip, disrupt undead. If you can stay out of reach, keep casting it until they all go away.

[Lady-J]

battering blast, disintegrate, wish, black tentacles,(haste the barbarian and let them deal with the undead), death ward to avoid negative levels

[MrRetsej]

All of the above are good spells for dealing with the Undead. Here are a few more:

Harming
Oil of Magic Weapon - Ensure your BDF can hit incorporeal undead at lower levels.

Controlling
Boneshaker + any Pit spell/precipitous ledge
Force Anchor - GREAT Vs incorporeal, since most players forget they can 5ft step into solid objects to escape.

Defense
Protection From Evil

[ElyasRavenwood]

Thank you for all of these suggestions,

I will have to make sure my wizard memorizes such spells as burst of radiance, and force anchor.

Thank you for reminding me of the utility of spells like grease, glitter dust, protection from evil.

I will have to look into Ghost bane Dirge, bone shaker, battering blast....

Thank you all great suggestions! Please keep them coming!

[avr]

Do you want to let us know anything about this wizard now? Level or level range, which arcane school and opposition schools, maybe even relevant feats?

[Dr Styx]

Tiny Hut is a good Defensive spell against Incorporeals.

[Dragon78]

Death ward is a god send against negative energy based abilities.

[Shorticus]

One of my favorite tools for dealing with the undead on my Brown Fur Transmuter is actually Undead Anatomy. By being undead, you become immune to undead nastiness.

However, where a Brown Fur Transmuter can turn their allies into undead, this would solely exist as a self-buff for you. Probably not what you're looking for, but it COULD be useful if you want to be able to get touched by undead without being drained. You can still cast spells in that form, I believe.

Disrupt Undead is stronger than most cantrips, damage-wise.

If you're fighting mindless undead, manipulating the terrain can be SUPER advantageous. Fighting zombies in a 5 or 10 foot wide hallway? Create Pit in the center, pelt them with arrows or thrown axes or whatever - turn it into a duckshoot. Spells like Wall of Fire are also highly effective against mindless undead because they inherently just want to eat you. You can, with a little effort, get them to stand inside the fire and burn themselves to death while your melee friends hold the line.

Intelligent undead are trickier. Others have already given plenty of suggestions on how to fight them. I personally feel that Magic Missile is a fun spell to use at low levels vs. Shadows and the like, especially if you have a metamagic Rod for Empower Spell.

Another solid low level spell in general? Grease. Grease is always nice to have. It sucks against incorporeal undead, obviously, but it would work well with zombies, ghouls, skeletons...

A really good option, in my opinion, is summoning monsters. CON or STR damage or level drain matters a lot less when it affects a summon, and summons often can appear with Celestial templates to help beat up the enemy in question. The issue is that you want to get Standard Action summons if you go this route, so getting Sacred Summons somehow (playing a Pact Wizard, perhaps) will help.

But even without Standard Action summoning, if you can safely use your Summon Monster spell you can conjure up some mean creatures to beat up the bad guys with. Lantern Archons, Dire Lions with Versatile Summons so they can fly + pounce, Crocodiles to grapple the lich... You get the idea. Take a Rod of Giant Summoning for good measure.

If you haven't chosen a race yet, consider the Tiefling alternate racial trait that gives at-will Deathwatch. This is useful for spotting undead infiltrators, for seeing if a corpse is literally just a corpse or if it's undead, etc. Very handy in the right campaign.

[ElyasRavenwood]

AVR Sure I would be happy to share details about my character

:

Sure my character is 11 level in PFS. He is a Sylph with 10 levels of Wizard air elemental specialist and 1 level of Magaambyan Arcanist.

Name: Imuthes

Senses: Dark vision, Cloud gazer (see through non-magical mists and fogs with no penalty, in magical fogs, see x3 distance), oil of daylight, scroll of See Invisibility, Perception +12

Alignment: Neutral good, Faction: Scarab Sages, Deity: Nethys

Abilities:
Str 8
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 27
Wis 12
Cha 10

Int= base 16 +2 race, +2 Protegé Boon, +2 Level advancement, +1 Research specialist boon, +4 Headband

Saves:
Ft +7
Ref +9
Will: +12

Attack Bonus +5,
Hit Poings 57,
Speed 30’,

Armor Class 15, Touch: 14, Flat Footed 12
(+3 Dex, +1 Nat, +1 Deflection)

Armor Class with Mage Armor, Shield, Protection from evil,
AC: 24, Touch 15, Flat footed 21
( Armor +4, Shield +4, Dex +3, Nat +1, Deflection +2)

Feats:
Additional traits, Alchemical Affinity, Cloud Gazer, Oppositional Research (remove’s earth as opposition school) , Scholar: arcana, engineering, spell focus Evocation, spell mastery, Spell penetration, Time Stutter

Traits= 6 (2+2 extra trait boons, +2 Additional traits feat)
Ease of faith, Osirionologist (engineering), pragmatic activator, student of philosophy, Tomb raider, Underlying principiles.

Skills: (Favored Class Bonus +10 skill ranks)
Appraise +12, Craft Alchemy +14, Craft calligraphy +14, Craft Cartography +14, Diplomacy +23, Fly +21, Knowledge Arcana +27, Knowledge Dungeoneering+ 14, Knowledge Engineering +21, Knowledge Geography +13, Knowledge History +14, Knowledge Local +13, Knowledge nature +17, Knowledge Nobles +13, Knowledge planes +23, Knowledge Religion +13, Linguistics +22, Perception +12, Sense Motive +12, Spellcraft +22, Use Magical Device +23

Languages: Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Hallit, Ignan, Infernal, Kelish, Osiriani, Osiriani Ancient, Polyglot, Skald, Terran, Thassilonian, Tian, Varisian, Vudrani

Special Abilities: Aura of Good, Cyclone, Dark vision, Lightning Flash, Storm in Blood, Weather Savy. Energy resistance 5 Electricity.

Spell like abilities: at will: Feather Fall, Fly, Levitate

Spells Memorized: (can change them)
0) Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
1) Air Bubble, Comprehend Languages, Magic Missile x3, Obscuring mist, Windy Escape
2) Aggressive Thundercloud (DC21), Burst of Radiance x2 (DC 21), Glitter Dust (DC 20), Gust of Wind (DC 21) See Invisibility, Web (DC 20)
3) Dispell Magic, Fire Ball (DC 22) Force Anchor, Lighting bolt (DC 22) Comunal Resist Energy, Storm Step, Tongues
4) Ball Lightning (DC 23) Black Tentacles, Emergency Force Sphere, Freedom of Movment, Greater Invisibility, Resilient Sphere (DC 23)
5) Lightning Arc (DC 24) Passwall, Teleport, Wall of Force
6) Chain Lightning (DC 25) Disintegrate (DC 24) Summon Monster VI

Magic Items: Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Blessed Book, Cloak of Resistance +3, Handy Haversack, Headband of Vast Intelligence +4 ( Knowledge planes, Sense Motive), Oil of Daylight, Pathfinder pouch, Pearl of power 1st level, Potion of Delay Poison, Potion of Feather step, Potion of water breathing, Ring of Protection +1, Scroll of communal Resist Energy, Scroll of Haste (X3), Scroll of See Invisibility, Staff of Abjuration (Bonded Item), Wand of Burning hands (Cl 3rd, 4 charges), Wand of Cure Light Wounds (33 charges), Wand of Mage armor (29 charges), Wand of Protection from Evil (8 charges), Wand of Shield (22 Charges), Wand of Stone Call 37 charges,

Gear: Air Crystals x2, Antiplague X2, Antitoxin X2, Masterwork tools for Alchemy, Calligraphy, Cartography, Smoked goggles, Vermin repellant x5, Wreath sheath x2 wand CLW, Wand of Protection from Evil.

Weapons: Dagger,

I almost forgot This character has a few PFS boons applied to him. There is the GM star boon, another that gives him endure Elements for heat, one that allows him free access to the Dwarven language...there are others, I don't have access to my PFS chronicle notebook at the moment

I had initially made this character for the year of the Sky Key and he had the Technologist feat, but I eventually wanted to get into the Magaambyan Arcanist prestige class, and I was able to get a boon alowing me to swap out the Technologist feat for a feat allowing me access to the prestige class.

Recently I played this character through a scenario involving undead and incorporeal opponents. My character was one un prepared wizard. I am curious how I can improve my wizard's prepared spell selection if he expects to tackle the undead again. Any other suggestions would be welcome too.

Thank you

Elyas

[John Mechalas]

I am not a fan of Command Undead. It effects one creature, targets their best save (Will), at close range, and doesn't scale with level. It is a lousy spell at CL3 and it never gets better.

[avr]

Cool, as an air elementalist you should be able to outfly any undead - even those which can fly are slow. Especially incorporeal undead.

Incorporeal undead can't pass thru force effects. Resilient sphere is effective for separating out one if there are a group. This also works on corporeal undead of course. While they can't pass thru a wall of force either there's nothing to stop incorporeal creatures going under it.

See beyond may be helpful for locating undead.

Aggressive thundercloud is well past its best by date at this level. Scorching ray has just hit 3 rays though and gives you a non-save based option if you need it. Working with fog cloud is easier than obscuring mist due to being able to place it more easily.

Contingency is a spell I'd get ASAP, just on general principles. Contingent scroll w/a scroll of lesser restoration is an alternative if there's a lot of ability damage flying around, but you'll want the real thing eventually.

A couple of people suggested death ward and undead anatomy. Unfortunately death ward isn't a spell most wizards (including you) have access to, and undead anatomy carefully skirts around protecting you from ability damage/drain and negative levels.

[SanderJK]

Resilient Sphere is a pretty good offensive spell for any multi-enemy fight.
You have to be able be fighting large creatures or smaller and it does have SR and teleport abilities work through it, but otherwise it almost always traps someone, on a reflex save.
What's extra nice about it is that it's also a defensive ability if you need protection, and a possibility to disable the dominated or confused frontliner if needed.
It's a force effect, so it imprisons incorporeals too.

The humble magic missile remains a good choice against incorporeals. 5d4+5 isn't a lot, but it's autohit and nosave. It's damage is the same as a 10d6 nonforce effect.
A rod of toppling can help boost the MM and is hilarious, though the way CMB scales this only works vs medium or smaller.

If you know for sure you're facing undead, Halt Undead isn't bad at all. Up to 3 targets, medium range.

Boneshatter works on objects, and thus on undead, targetting their usually bad fortsave.

Vampires are tough tough foes if played to their full (100 different) abilities. If you know you're facing them, you may want to be prepared to counterspell them.

[Coidzor]

John Mechalas wrote:

I am not a fan of Command Undead. It effects one creature, targets their best save (Will), at close range, and doesn't scale with level. It is a lousy spell at CL3 and it never gets better.

Mindless undead never get a save, and you have control over them for 3 days at the base CL and 20 days with no CL boosters at max level.

Quote:

A nonintelligent undead creature gets no saving throw against this spell.

So you can go through someone's base, take over their mindless undead security systems, and then turn them against their master. Unless he's high enough level to use an AoE dispel magic and dispel your Command Undead spells, in which case it's better to just use them to fight the other mooks and minions populating a dungeon to save your party members some damage.

The fact that there's no first party Chain Spell metamagic in Pathfinder does weaken the spell in terms of your ability to take over all the enemy undead in an encounter or to maintain longterm control over your undead hordes more easily if you're the minionmancer kind of necromancer, but it definitely still has uses.

The real problem with it, though, is that even with only a single target per spell slot, the long duration allows a necromancer to have way too many minions to feasibly resolve combat turns in an amount of time that still preserves fun and enjoyment for everyone else playing the game.

Now, if you were thinking of using it against intelligent undead, yeah, that's a mug's game. You're better off using the Threnodic Spell metamagic from Ultimate Magic as I recall.

[John Mechalas]

Coidzor wrote:

So you can go through someone's base, take over their mindless undead security systems, and then turn them against their master. Unless he's high enough level to use an AoE dispel magic and dispel your Command Undead spells, in which case it's better to just use them to fight the other mooks and minions populating a dungeon to save your party members some damage.

This circumstance is so rare that I can count the number of times it's come up on zero hands. YMMV, of course.

If you're a necromancer creating undead of your own, then yeah, it's a staple so it doesn't attack as soon as it appears. Otherwise, there is just not much going for it to justify a spell slot unless you know exactly what you are going to be facing. Which makes it circumstantial.

In a campaign with a lot of skeletons and zombies, it'd be good on a wand.

[Fourshadow]

Not a spell but very useful for your meatshields in the party: Holy weapon balm. When put on a magic weapon, it hits incorporeal as if Ghost Touched. Also, does additional damage as if it was Holy Water.

[LordKailas]

Halt Undead can be very powerful in the right circumstances. Since mindless undead don't get a save and there is no HD limit.

This means it automatically works on brutes like the Frostfallen Mammoth.

The only downside is that it breaks on damage and is rounds per level, so it's only good for temporarily taking an enemy out of combat so you can deal with other enemies.

[Dragon78]

Undeath to death isn't bad but it has a costly material component:(

[Tacticslion]

Dot.

[Lyoto "The Dragon" Machida]

What about getting an ectoplasmic metamagic rod? Wouldn't that solve like all the problems vs. incorporeal?

[Ascalaphus]

Dr Styx wrote:

Tiny Hut is a good Defensive spell against Incorporeals.

This relies on a rather stretched interpretation though. Yes, Force effects can affect incorporeal creatures as if they were solid; but, Tiny Hut doesn't keep out corporeal creatures either. The spell is primarily about keeping out rain.

Also Ghostbane Dirge: this spell has the problem of not having enough descriptors like Force.

Bestiary > Universal Monster Rules wrote:

Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.

That's clearly a flaw in the design of Ghostbane Dirge, but RAW it's not a very good spell. In a home campaign you can try to talk sense into the GM, in PFS it's a problem. (Linda spoke about this in the Labyrinth of Hungry Ghosts thread after people brought up that the wand the party is giving during the briefing is... lackluster.)

[John Mechalas]

Hide from Undead works OK if your goal is avoidance. You can put it on multiple targets, though you have to be careful that none of them attack anything.

Intelligent undead still get a saving throw which limits its utility. As a 1st level spell, though, it's a good way to get a low-level party past skeletons and such.

[avr]

Dragon78 wrote:

Undeath to death isn't bad but it has a costly material component:(

Well, undead of 9 HD or less aren't major opponents by the time you're high enough level to cast it. It kind of is bad.

[Bearserk]

avr wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

Undeath to death isn't bad but it has a costly material component:(

Well, undead of 9 HD or less aren't major opponents by the time you're high enough level to cast it. It kind of is bad.

Word!!!!