at a level when a common hit does 18d6+52f or 115 damage (-10 so 105)
I'm guessing that's 12d6 (max Solarion weapon) + 6d6 (true Photon Crystal) + 20 (weapon Spec) + 8 (Str) + 3 (Photon Mode Insight) + 10 (Plasma Sheath) but that only comes to 18d6+41 (average 104). Where is the other 11 coming from?
I'm sure you're correct, I'm not arguing, I just want to know how to get that extra 11. Is 10 of it from Deadly Aim? If so, where's that last 1? What am I missing? I'm trying to reverse engineer your numbers for my own edification.
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at a level when a common hit does 18d6+52f or 115 damage (-10 so 105)I'm guessing that's 12d6 (max Solarion weapon) + 6d6 (true Photon Crystal) + 20 (weapon Spec) + 8 (Str) + 3 (Photon Mode Insight) + 10 (Plasma Sheath) but that only comes to 18d6+41 (average 104). Where is the other 11 coming from?
I'm sure you're correct, I'm not arguing, I just want to know how to get that extra 11. Is 10 of it from Deadly Aim? If so, where's that last 1? What am I missing? I'm trying to reverse engineer your numbers for my own edification.
Maximum possible strength is actually +9 at level 20 if you start with an 18, increase every level, and get a +6 personal augmentation. 22 base + 6 = 28, which is a +9 modifier for strength. Photon mode insight bonus is +1 and then + 1 every 6 levels, so it is a +4 bonus at 20. And yes, he's also using deadly aim, although whether that actually increases your expected damage per round depends on the enemy's AC and whether you're full attacking or not.
His point still stands though with a 50% chance to hit and only 100 average damage per hit in melee. On the other hand, Black Hole does something that a full attack doesn't - move the targets. As I noted in my commentary, if you're looking for pure damage, Supernova or a full attack are likely to be better, especially if the target has fire resistance (on the other hand - fire immunity means a bunch of effects in Photon mode do nothing so you'll likely be in Graviton mode)
However, its a nice rider effect if you had already adjusted your team's initiative order such that you were going to pull a couple enemies out of cover so your ranged allies could avoid a -4 to hit penalty while full attacking before the enemies could move back - or hit an extra enemy or two with an AoE weapon or spell. Or if you were in Graviton Mode already to take advantage of an effect providing cover to you for +4 AC and wanted a flashy finish.
Has anyone run the numbers on the bull rush method of taking advantage of blazing orbit? The benefit there is that you don't have to invest at all into charisma, and you can stay photon attuned the whole time.
Thank you both for the breakdown on the math. It looks like I had a couple things wrong (max strength and the insight bonus). I figured I was wrong I just wanted to know how. Thanks.
You can combine a Solarian with Armor Storm soldier to get the Bull Rush DC down to +0 (feat+Armor Storm's Smash Through), but you're still very unlikely to Bull Rush the target very far.
Hello. Thank you for putting this guide together. I have looked over the class, but it seemed a bit clunky, at first glance. Your guide put it into focus.
Question: Would the darkness 20' emmitted from your armor, weapin or floating thingy grant you concealment, along with miss chance, against those without darkvision?
Seems like a good debuff, coupled with Radiation.
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With the release of Pact Worlds, I'm curious as to how the Solar Disciple theme affects a Solarian build. I'm considering switching my Scholar Solarian, Arcalinte Soter, into a Solar Disciple. The switch wouldn't really impact my stats too much, I'd just be Int 10, Wis 11 instead of Int 11, Wis 11. What do you folks think? He was built using the Versatile Build from this very guide...
A glowing Solar Manifestation, regardless of its form, sheds dim light in a 20-foot radius. You can shut off the light or darkness as a standard action in order to blend in or assist in stealth, but whenever you enter a stellar mode, the glow or darkness returns immediately. Once made, these choices cannot be changed.
Bold is mine. Doesn't that line suggest that both--light and darkness options--allow the 20' radius?
Then what darkness is there to shut off?
I understand it as if the darkness option makes it 20' around you dim light (reducing it from bright light if needed)
Pact Worlds has a feat Divine Blessing.
One option is:
Sarenrae: The first time you deal fire damage each round, you can convert half the fire damage into holy energy damage. Fire resistance or immunity does not apply to the holy energy portion of the damage.
Nice way for a Solarian to get around some of the Fire Resistance. You would need to worship Sarenrae, but it is easy to image her followers liking the class anyways.
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Pact Worlds has a feat Divine Blessing.
One option is:
Sarenrae: The first time you deal fire damage each round, you can convert half the fire damage into holy energy damage. Fire resistance or immunity does not apply to the holy energy portion of the damage.Nice way for a Solarian to get around some of the Fire Resistance. You would need to worship Sarenrae, but it is easy to image her followers liking the class anyways.
I really like that feat as fire resistance / immunity seems pretty common.
I really like that feat as fire resistance / immunity seems pretty common.Pact Worlds has a feat Divine Blessing.
One option is:
Sarenrae: The first time you deal fire damage each round, you can convert half the fire damage into holy energy damage. Fire resistance or immunity does not apply to the holy energy portion of the damage.Nice way for a Solarian to get around some of the Fire Resistance. You would need to worship Sarenrae, but it is easy to image her followers liking the class anyways.
I sadly don't have access to the Pact Worlds book yet (will get it eventually).
While nice, I'll point out the cons of this feat:
1) Once per turn. This really only plays nice with single, big fire hits all at once. So good with Supernova and Sunbolt (although Sunbolt isn't particularly good). Much less effective with Blazing Orbit, Corona, Miniature Star. Using Plasma sheath, only one melee attack per turn, so not so great with full attacks or AoOs.
2) Only up to half damage is affected. So if the fire resistance is less than half the damage you deal, it doesn't really do anything. On the other hand against fire immune targets, it means you are doing only half damage (and possibly much less as it only affects the first fire damage roll a turn). Solarians have options for dealing non-fire damage (namely physical melee attacks). At half damage, only Supernova is likely to be competitive with just attacking with melee in terms of damage output.
If your only way to damage targets is fire damage (like a fire Kineticist in Pathfinder), then this feat is really good. However, if you have multiple damage type options, then this becomes much more situational.
The value of the feat could get better for Solarians as more stellar revelations dealing fire damage in one big chunk are added. I see it as a niche feat to make Supernova useful against fire immune enemies and potentially very useful against fire immune swarms.
After someone pointed out that the soulfire fusion only lets Charisma boost damage and doesn't give you a BAB I think it's a bit blah. If the Soulfire let you use Cha vs Str when attacking it would've been epic. Would've solved that MAD debate.
It does.
It does.Pardon?
It does what you think it does.
He wishes it subbed out Cha for Str on ATTACK, which would let you save some attribute points on Str once you get 14 for heavy armor. A few points on damage don’t matter compared to a couple of points of to hit and some saved attributes for shoring up saves, AC, or skills.
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First off, 1st level Solarian Weapon crystals in the Pact Worlds and Armory are good. Brings the average damage up from 3.5 to 4.5, which is in line with the best wieldy weapons (as opposed to unwieldy) you can start with.
Soulfire fusion makes the Solar Weapon build starting with an 18 Charisma quite a bit more attractive than it was before, as its melee output is now better or on par with the best melee Soldiers.
Human Solar Weapon Solarian
14 Str, 10 Dex, 10 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis, 18 Cha
Bonus Human Feat: Heavy Armor
1st: Weapon Focus
+4 to hit, 1d6+7 damage or 1d6+8 in Photon mode at 1st level.
Compare to an 18 Str Melee Soldier with +6 to hit and 1d8+4 damage.
CR 1 combatant array is 13 KAC.
Move and Attack
Solarian 0.6 * 3.5+8 = 6.9 expected damage per round
Soldier 0.7 * 4.5+4 = 5.95 expected damage per round
Full attack
Solarian 0.4 * 3.5+8 * 2 = 9.2
Soldier 0.5 * 4.5+4 * 2 = 8.5
By the time you hit 20, and assuming it a max Charisma build with Str second, you've got 24 Str/20 Dex/14 Con/10 Int/14 Wis/28 Cha
Full Attack (vs 37 KAC)
Solarian +20+7+1=+28 to hit, -5 penalty on full attack
18d6 + 20 + 7+ 9 + (4 Photon + 10 plasma sheath) = 18d6+36 (or +50)
0.35*3*99 = 103.95 or 0.35*3*113 = 118.65
Soldier +20+9+1=+30 to hit, -6 penalty on full attack
12d10 + 20 + 9 + 4 Melee Striker
0.4*3*99 = 118.8
Solar Armor + Constructive Interference + Enhanced Resistance gets you resist 5 to nearly everything by 5th. My only issue with Constructive Interference is it doesn't scale, but otherwise is a solid graviton power.
I don't know what to think of Stellar Equilibrium. I suppose its useful if your GM takes your armor and Aeon stones away, but its terribly niche and everything it does is covered by equipment except for the +4 to disease and poison saving throws. Although those bonuses only work in combat, and while photon attuned. It leaves me very meh.
Atractive Force makes it so a Solar Weapon build can also be a disarm build. Its also very niche, but at least its more proactive - i.e. you choose to disarm opponents and at least make the bonus matter. However, unless you are a Solar Weapon disarm build, its probably not worth it.
Subduing Beams are great for roleplay. Problem is, nonlethal only matters if its the last hit, so unless the rest of the party is using nonlethal weapons, its not all that great.
Burn Enchantment has some possibly synergy with Stellar Rush and Solar Acceleration. Trade your move action for +2 to saving throw against one enemy if you hit. Its not great though.
Also, I'm not very impressed by things which add critical effects. Clearly the developers value critical hit riders, but I feel they don't come up often enough to be spending limited power selections on. Especially with weapon crystals or fusions providing the same kind of options.
Debris field I think is strong. Clearly on a Ranged Graviton focused Solarian its crazy (50% damage mitigation), but its good on a melee Solarian as well, as they tend to suffer focus fire. I don't think melee Soldiers currently have anything nearly as good as this power in terms of damage mitigation.
Particle Field is weird. Its a move action for 25 hit points. And it also has fast healing 4 (or 6 when attuned) - which probably doesn't matter because at level 14, most hits are going to be more than 25 damage. Move action for 25 hit points seems good to me at 14th. Glow of life is a move action plus a resolve point for 42 hit points at 14th for comparison. However, a move action for 25 hit points seems bad to me at 20th level, given enemy damage scaling.
The problem is it doesn't scale for some reason, like Constructive Interference.
Solar Fortification is nice for Solar Armor, as Light Armor can't get Fortification plates, but is competing against Gravity Shield, which is +4 AC in a lot of cases. Still might see some use in some builds, as it doesn't cost any action to start, like Gravity Shield does.
Particle Wave is *insane*. There's a reason its not allowed in SFS. You know all those Pathfinder parties which were not prepared for swarms? Imagine every encounter by scenerio designers having to plan a counter to player swarms.
You become immune to attacks and effects that target a single creature. Some enemies will simply be unable to deal with you on round 3 or later. A Kyokor is completely unable to damage you for example. At level 9.
You become immune to: Bleeding, critical hits, flat-footed, off-target, pinned, prone, staggered, stunned, combat manuevers, and flanking.
Combined with Divine Blessing (Sarenrae) to ensure your ability to damage anything (allowing half of your swarm fire damage each round to get converted to holy, which at this time nothing is resistant or immune to).
Quantum Entrapment is an interesting control power. Its single target, making it less useful than on enemies than Time Dilation, it does have potential being used on an ally, to get them out of harm's way for a few rounds. The 17th level version is arguably much better. A resolve point for 8 or more rounds is really good. Rolling a 1 on a d4 is going to make you wonder if it was worth spending your turn doing it, but 8+ rounds is basically gone for the rest of the fight.
Lastly, having a full set of options for Power armor now, with many 1 charge/hour usage, means its theoretically possible to ignore your Strength past 7th level in melee. Even if you make Strength a secondary or tertiary stat, Power armor can bring it up to match a max strength Soldier. Also, the lower Dex limit means you don't feel so bad having a low-ish Dex as a Solarian.
Take that Charisma focused Solar Weapon Solarian at 15th. Stick them in a Commander's Harness.
Str 23 (28 in armor)/Dex 18/Con 14/Int 10/Wis 12/Cha 27
Now you've got the best melee to-hit in the game, the best melee damage, and maximized saving throws on a couple supernatural abilities. Given nearly all Solar weapon solarians are going to want heavy armor anyways, grabbing power armor is just one more feat for a lot of benefits, potentially starting at 5th level.
Now you've got the best melee to-hit in the game, the best melee damage, and maximized saving throws on a couple supernatural abilities. Given nearly all Solar weapon solarians are going to want heavy armor anyways, grabbing power armor is just one more feat for a lot of benefits, potentially starting at 5th level.Would it be worth it if you were a castery type that wanted to hit things in the face hard to grab a level of soldier so you only need the Powered armor feat and that way you can actually make use of the weapon slots on the armor. (Maybe one of those Entangle Blast Heavy weapons)
Or would the lost solarian level for DC's be more valuable?
If you're primary concept is to be a caster type hitting stuff in the face in melee, then grabbing a level in Soldier resulting in lower save DCs, lower Solar Weapon damage, and other delayed ability progression is probably not worth it. For example, supernova will do 1d6 less damage, you don't get your first stellar revelation until 3rd level, you get Flashing Strikes at 8th level, your first zenith revelation choices are at 10th, and so on.
Also, if you plan on hitting things in the face in melee, then ranged weapons don't add all that much. Sure, have backup ranged option, but the question is, how much of your character concept do you want to spend on better backup plans?
On the other hand, if your concept is do use a lot of weapons in Power Armor while casting, then grabbing a level of Sharpshooter or Guard Soldier and the versatile weapon specialization at 3rd level makes a lot of sense. If you plan on using heavy weapons attached to your power armor primarily, then you might actually want to go full Soldier Bombard with an Archetype that adds some spells or spell-like abilities, rather than Solarian.
Also, while expensive in terms of feats, you could also just spend feats on weapon proficiency and specialization as a full Solarian. Keep in mind, there are no feats currently which improve a Solarian's revelations, Solar Weapon, or their save DCs, so while you save a bunch of feats with a Soldier dip, you can't get that caster power back.
I think any of the above character concepts could work, its just they'd be emphasizing different things, and be better and worse in different situations.
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Question for you, Hiruma Kai...
I'm still using your Versatile Build, but I was wondering something: If I wanted to use a Plasma Sword as my weapon of choice, could I safely ditch Plasma Sheath as a Stellar Revelation and maybe take one of the new Solar-Armor-based Revelations that were introduced in the Armory?
Also, what would be a good feat to replace with Divine Blessing (Sarenrae) regardless of whether I keep Plasma Sheath or not?
Question for you, Hiruma Kai...
I'm still using your Versatile Build, but I was wondering something: If I wanted to use a Plasma Sword as my weapon of choice, could I safely ditch Plasma Sheath as a Stellar Revelation and maybe take one of the new Solar-Armor-based Revelations that were introduced in the Armory?
Also, what would be a good feat to replace with Divine Blessing (Sarenrae) regardless of whether I keep Plasma Sheath or not?
Plasma Sheath is a raw damage stellar revelation option. Which depending on your build goals can certainly skipped. If you're aiming to be harder to hurt, the Constructive Interference revelation is an interesting option, as it takes no additional action to activate initially, and DR 10 electric or sonic could be quite handy at the low levels.
I'd probably swap in Divine Blessing (Sarenrae) for Coordinated Shot.
Hello everyone!
Well, I'm going to start playing Aeon Throne and I was thinking of doing a lot of damage with a Solarian, as I found the skills of the class very fun and deadly. Well, summing up everything that has already been said, what is the best melee character builder damage to a Solarian? We will start at the first level and GM authorized all official books!
Grateful!
I'm a huge fan of the 'Power-Larian' build, which is to start with a 13/14 Str and then as much Cha and Dex as you can (in that order). At 1st take a cheap solarian weapon crystal and the soulfire fusion for damage. At 1 or 3 take Weapon Focus Advanced Melee and at 1 or 3 take Heavy Armor Prof and then at 5 take Power Armor Prof. At level 5, you can end up with a 18/16/21 or even (possibly) 18/18/23 Str/Dex/Cha and you'll be mowing through just about anything in your way. If you can reach it, it's probably dead. Korasha Lashunta are the best core race for this, because of their stat layout and student ability.
That being said, 1st-3rd with that sort of build can really really be painful. The high charisma+soulfire means you'll be doing plenty of damage, but the low strength means you won't be hitting very much and will often be crit fishing vs bosses, especially on full attacks. If you were asking about Signal of Screams I'd say it's the only way to go because by 7th, you're an almost unstoppable killing machine.
For AAT, though, I think your best bet is to go with a blitz-larian. Take a level of Blitz Soldier first (for Heavy Armor, bonus to movement, bonus to init, set Strength as your Resolve pool). At 1 or 3 take Weapon Focus Advanced Melee and at 5 take Enhanced Resistance Kinetic. For stats, max out strength (at least 16) at level 1 and put everything else in Charisma and then Dex (in that order, try to get at least a 14 in both if you can). Vesk are the best core race for this, because of the AC boost and stat layout, but they will be skill poor.
The only downside to this path is 3rd level will probably suck. You're either going to have to take Weapon Specialization - Advanced at 3 and then retrain it at 4 or you're going to take a hit to damage for that level. All the monsters are built assuming everyone has weapon spec at 3, so you can go from 1 or 2 hit killing things to needing 3 or 4.