1 lvl oracle dip for vanilla bard?


Advice


Hi everyone,

I'm looking at creating a lvl 4 character to join an ongoing homegame, and considered bard since the existing team are melee/ranged heavy.

I really want to play up the master of knowledge, so going catfolk for the favored class bonus. Other than that he will be the face out of combat and buffer in combat.

I'm thinking about a 1 lvl dip in lore oracle with deep one curse and extra revelation to get charisma to AC and knowledge skills.

20 point buy, and standard WBL so planing to start with a +2 charisma item for a total of 20 cha (15 base +2 race +1 lvl 4 +2 item).

The other feet goes to lingering performance.

The question part:
Which traits would help this cat?
which lvl 1 oracle spells are still useful without level increases?
What does he do when not using performance/casting spells?

Grand Lodge

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I'd seriously consider Magical Knack(Oracle) as a trait. Round/level spells become viable, CLW improves, and the duration on other buffs is dramatically improved.

Fallback Strategy is my go-to spell for Cleric/Oracle dip. Embrace Destiny is good if you have Magical Knack, if a little redundant with Fallback Strategy. Protection from Evil, Endure Elements, Comprehend Languages, Bless, and Moment of Greatness are all good options.


Moment of Greatness Paired with the Flagbearer feat. You can use all your spells on moment of Greatness. Later pick up Banner of the ancient kings. Which when all put together gives everyone a +2 morale bonus which you can double with Moment of Greatness. It is a very strong combination and does not require a high CL.

Endure Elements lasts 24 hours and is a good quality of Life spell.


Traits:

Lillend's Harp [Race Aasimar - Musetouched]
+1 Perform (string) checks, +2 for a bardic performance.
Maestro of the Society (Social)
+3 bardic performance rounds per day.
Warrior Poet [Region]
+1 Knowledge about dwarves and +1 Fort saves on bardic performance rounds.

"What does he do when not using performance/casting spells"
Never stop... use Tuned Bowstring. Pick it up BEFORE the +2 charisma item. Really, do it. The Bowstring acts as a masterwork stringed instrument + enhancement bonus of ant bow it's on. The important part is that you maintain a performance in combat without expending rounds of bardic performance as long as she fires at least one arrow each round!!!!! If you have no dex, take smoke, tangleshot and lode stone arrow to help. Just remember, the bowstring doesn't require a hit, just an attack so even if you attack that 'invisible' creature that round, it still works. ;)

Spells:
1st
Stone Shield [immediate action defence]
Dream Feast [never starve]
Barbed Chains [seems odd but uses your BAB and casting stat for attacks so it keeps up with attack/trip]
Ant Haul [even 1st level is 2 hours]
Infernal Healing [healing is the same no matter level]
Know the Enemy [level doesn't matter]
Ears of the City [even with a single round of use, it does 1d4 hours worth of Diplomacy to gather information]

Create Water [this and Dream Feast means never having to carry food/water]
Enhanced Diplomacy [who can't use a +2 diplomacy/intimidate]
Stabilize [can't hurt]
Guidance [again, who can't use a +1 to skill checks]


If you want to be the Knowledge check god, then it's worthwhile to make the dip to squeeze out each and every bonus you can find. Bonus points for Masterwork books that grant a +2 Bonus to the respective Knowledge skill that you can call upon as needed.

Depending on your Dexterity score, the Charisma to AC won't be worthwhile, due that there are better things to spend your revelation on. I'd instead recommend the Noble Scion feat, which only requires Charisma 13 (which you meet easily), and that it's your 1st level feat.

You can get the Arts choice (+3 performance rounds, +1 to Perform skills), Lore (+1 to all Knowledge checks), or War (Charisma to Initiative in place of Dexterity). Personally, I'd recommend Lore if your Dexterity is good, though going War for the late-game scaling would be a great decision as well.

For Oracle spells, Divine Favor grants a +1 Luck bonus to Attack and Damage rolls, even though it's self-only, and its duration is only ever 1 minute. With the Fate's Favored trait, that increases to +2, which is pretty huge starting out, and nice to have later on when bonuses to hit become absolutely necessary. Guidance for the +1 on a Knowledge Check is always nice too, if you can make it work.

Know the Enemy spell might have use, if you're expecting to fight identical monsters the following day (such as Undead, Outsiders, Humanoids, and so on). A +10 bonus to your check would be huge, but due to the 1 minute casting time, really only helpful if you can get the jump on said bad guys.

Moment of Greatness doubles a given Morale bonus effect for a single roll or check, which is pretty huge. While both Bards and Oracles can cast this spell, it's nice to save your 1st level Bard slots for something else besides this.

If a friendly squishy is in a bind, Liberating Command may help. It's only a +1, but the factor that it's an Immediate Action and grants a reroll on an escape check, still might have use.

Air Bubble is great for those situations where you're somehow unable to breathe, such as being dragged underwater, or a creature choking you to death. It's only a minute per level, but this can give you a major reprieve for your allies to come help you, or to create a multi-round plan to escape.

Other than that, there really aren't too many great 1st level spells that are useful via 1 level dips...

**EDIT**

For non-performance/casting options in combat, Bards can be effective in combat with the proper feats and set-up. I mean, you have a lot of buffs, and you're still 3/4 BAB; with a decent modifier, you're probably about as effective as a melee cleric, if not moreso. Otherwise, look into Wands or Scrolls and other consumables to use in combat.

Sometimes, you don't even have to do anything; while it's not a good idea to not take actions, it's sometimes smarter than wasting actions (and by relation, resources) when it's not really necessary.


Hi everyone, thanks for the help.

For stats I'm looking at:
Str 14 Dex 10 con 12 int 12 wis 10 cha 22 (lvl 4 increase and +2 item).

Traits:
Magical knack (bard) and Maestro of the Society.

One level oracle spells
Orisons: create water, enhanced diplomacy, detect magic, and purify food and water.
Lvl 1: Stone shield and Infernal healing.

3 levels bard spells:
Orisons: read magic, dancing lights, mage hand, message, prestidigitation and mending.
Lvl 1: Cure light wounds, grease, Hideous Laughter and vanish.

Feats: lvl 1 Noble Sion (war) lvl 3 extra revelation. Lvl 6 lingering performance.

Curse: deep one.
Revelation: lore keeper and secret sidestep.

Gear: +2 cha headband, +1 leather armor, masterwork buckler, scorpion whip, spiked gauntlet.


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Stats are good. Sidestep Secret is probably the only reason I don't recommend a higher Dexterity at the cost of Intelligence, but it's a good thing you have it, right?

I'm curious as to why you took Maestro of the Society, since it just gives you +3 Performance rounds, and there are much better traits to take (see Fate's Favored with Divine Favor, Indomitable Faith, and so on). With a 22 Charisma and 3 levels under your belt, you have plenty of performance rounds as it is (14 rounds worth, in fact), probably enough to last the entire day's worth of combats. And that's only going to go up from there.

Keep in mind that Infernal Healing is an [evil] spell, and a GM will rule that with enough uses, you'll change alignment, even if it's used for a good cause, I'd suggest switching that to Divine Favor or one of my other suggested spells to avoid that conundrum. It's also pointless when you took CLW to add to your spells known as a Bard.

Whips are difficult to use as a Bard, and aren't really combat savvy unless you have the feats for them (which you don't). You also aren't even proficient with them, which means it's not going to work out since you're suffering a -4 penalty to attacks. I'd suggest using a Longsword instead.

Later down the road, I suggest you take Steadfast Personality so you can better counter mind-affecting effects, the #1 bane of Will Saves.

Silver Crusade

It sounds like you've got your heart set on Lore Oracle, but if the party is melee/range heavy and you expect the character to get into a lot of combat, you might want to consider Metal Oracle instead and take the Skill at Arms revelation. Proficiency in all martial weapons and heavy armor does not suck.

As far as spells that are worth having, Bless and Inspire Courage both stack nicely with Inspire Courage.


Pageant of the Peacock Can eliminate the need for Lorekeeper revelation.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


Whips are difficult to use as a Bard, and aren't really combat savvy unless you have the feats for them (which you don't). You also aren't even proficient with them, which means it's not going to work out since you're suffering a -4 penalty to attacks. I'd suggest using a Longsword instead.

Just pointing out Bards are proficient with Whips.

Also you're going to need a lot of performance rounds once Shadowbard and those other spells come into play. Plus they can fuel a lot of cool Masterpieces. It's never a waste.

Silver Crusade

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I have a pathfinder society character like this. If you really want to amp up the support and knowledge further I can give a few tips:

-Take dual cursed oracle (archetype) instead of a normal oracle. Go with Lore and sidestep secret as you suggested. Then take another additional revelation feat for the misfortune revelation which is specific to this archetype. The misfortune revelation allows you to use your reaction (swift action during your own turn) to allow allies to reroll their attack or saving throw role, or force your enemy to do the same. It works once per day per creature, which is still insanely good. This also makes lingering performance a little less necessary as you don't need top use saving finale as often. It's fun to cast a spell and make an enemy reroll a succesfull save if they make it. :)

-Especially in a melee heavy party, it's unlikely their knowledge checks are that great and I'd heartily agree with your decision to go lore oracle and focus on buffs and knowledge skills.

-I would personally go for the flagbearer feat, which is a passive always active buff for your allies, over using a melee weapon and use your points in strength for a more useful stat. Even if you don't take flagbearer, casting is virtually always better than melee unless you are a dedicated melee with 18 str and supporting feats (you could for instance get a wand of cure wounds and use that on an injured ally if you run out of spells). If you want to play a weapon using bard I'd recommend using a bow and taking the arrowsong minstrel bard archetype.

- Pick up deific obedience (Irori) as a feat somewhere later. It gives a +4 sacred bonus on *all* your knowledge checks.

-In my opinion with only a 1 level dip in oracle, magical knack really serves no purpose. It's extremely rare that one additional round of an effect will matter since fights are most often decided in three turns, or at least the enemies you hit with your spell will be so crippled that they tend to die in three turns (glitterdust blind and such). I would recommend reactionary for an additional +2 initiative, since you want to go first so you can buff your allies before their turns come up.

-I'd drop one of your oracle spells to get obscuring mist. This is a potentially life saving spell for the entire party against a numer of situations, such as a group of enemy archers, since they can't see where you are then, have to guess which square you are in and if they guess correctly they still have a 50% miss chance. It also prevents enemy rogues from being able to sneak attack party members and can even the odds if you are stuck inside magical darkness with enemies able to see through it while you can't (then the fog still blocks their sight). One of the absolute hardest fights I've ever been in was against a group of flying enemies with bows and this would have almost completely crippled their offense (I was the tank and had to rush out to save someone, which almost resulted in a total party kill, but as a support you have more time).

Grand Lodge

Lay of Scholar-King is a skald saga that add cha to knowledge checks. Your gm may let you take it.

I like diefic obedience irori for a knowledge monkey +4 to all knowledge checks is nice.

Check out the lore needle. It let's you use you highest knowledge for any other knowledge check. It's really powerful in clutch situations.

Amature investigator is good if you want to further boost knowledges.

Guiding spirit trait let's you roll twice on a check once a day.

Historian (Human) is a trait you may want. It's a bit oddly worded but should be fine.


@Darksol the Painbringer For the Maestro of the Society trait it was just that I imagine myself using bardic performance every battle, but you are right, it's overkill. Especially when I get lingering performance.

Did not think about the alignment implications for Infernal healing, was just thinking it was a way to double potential healing. In the current team the barbarian usually require a fair amount of patching up after battle. And it would be fun to freak out the paladin.

For the whip my impression was that the bard proficiency with whip covered scorpion whip. Seems as if I was wrong about that. Probably be borring and go for a short sword.

I'm not expecting to use it much, but I like the fact that the whip gives reach with one hand free for buckler. Planing to stay out of melee range when possible.

The rest of the team is a paladin, ranged inquisitor, barbarian and rogue/wizard. I will be replacing a unchained rouge who takes my spot as GM.


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No knowledge check can truly tell you about the Scorpion Whip's true rules.


Pageant of the Peacock lets you use a bluff on all INT checks. Not only knowledge checks but also appraise, craft, spellcraft, and Linguistic checks.

I love the idea of it cause you can BS your answers. Oh, that is a fluffy do-dad..it has X, Y, and Z.


Even if you were proficient in whips, it's a bad weapon that requires feats just to even use properly in combat. And that's not even including that, in normal circumstances, whips are Exotic and require a feat just to use them without an additional -4.


Got Ninjaed while typing up my last post.

Louise Bishop: I'm looking at that one. RAW it works, but I do not think I would allow it as a GM. You dance moves make you able to bluff yourself into remembering things?

I just have a problem getting the logic fluff wise.

@Trevor that is good advice. Was already looking at the diefic obedience irori, will pick that up when I have a free feat.


Pageant basically puts you into the mindset of a snooty noble being able to fabricate the best lies... that happen to be right.

Also it's Bluff not Perform.

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