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I have been kind of intrigued by the idea of basing a build around the Ninja Trick 'Pressure Points'
I am picturing a ninja/monk type character who runs up and pokes you in a dozen places, crippling all your limbs. (Kinda like Ty Lee from Avatar)
I'm thinking 3 levels in unchained rogue to get the talent, finesse, and dex to damage...then switching to unchained monk for flurry, unarmed strike, better BAB, etc.
The idea is throw out a bunch of low damage attacks that sap the targets strength down to where they can't even move.
Thoughts?
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I'd consider Monk of the Mantis and the mantis style feat chain. Monk of the mantis gets sneak damage on the flurry and their stunning fist can give wis mod in rounds of exhaustion for 1 ki, so an extra -6 str/dex.
Mantis feat chain would be mostly to up the DC on stunning fist, but its also a chance to land long lasting fatigue.
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Monk of the Mantis gives up a ton of feats to get higher sneak attack damage...my thoughts for this character were to stick with low 1 or 2 d6 sneak attacks, and focus more on doing Str damage with the pressure points modifier. Launch a full attack with 5-6 strikes and watch as the enemy is suddenly too weak to swing their weapon, or move in their armor, etc.
Stunning fist fits really well thematically, but with every monk I have seen played, it ends up being a gimmick ability that rarely works (or even gets used)
Its a fair criticism, but i'm just thinking that after 5-6 attacks, including sneak attack damage most things might be a little too dead to appreciate the stat damage, whereas with the exhaustion chance the effects will be felt after maybe 1-2 attacks instead.
The ninja trick flurry of stars could work with pressure points, but you'd need greater invisibility or something with a similar effect (fog + a means of seeing thru it, a means of blinding your enemy first, whatever). A dip in waves oracle for a revelation to see thru fog could help here.
I have been kind of intrigued by the idea of basing a build around the Ninja Trick 'Pressure Points'
** spoiler omitted **
I am picturing a ninja/monk type character who runs up and pokes you in a dozen places, crippling all your limbs. (Kinda like Ty Lee from Avatar)
I'm thinking 3 levels in unchained rogue to get the talent, finesse, and dex to damage...then switching to unchained monk for flurry, unarmed strike, better BAB, etc.
The idea is throw out a bunch of low damage attacks that sap the targets strength down to where they can't even move.
Thoughts?
I'm Literally Playing a Brawler Named Ty Lee who acts like an aloof Diva much like the character from Avatar. No one believes she is an adventurer and always doubts her abilities. It is very comical when I beat the hell out of the big brutes or Knock out punch a caster. I abuse Martial Flexibility to adapt to my enemies and exploit perceived weaknesses. Like Tripping, Disarming, Grappling, Stunning Fist. I took as many prereq feats as I could and now I have access to a ton of combat feats to overcome enemies. Has been a very fun character, to say the least.
Reskinning the Dirty Trick maneuver as pressure points and qi blockage made my Maneuver Master Monk a good bit of fun to play.
Likely a Cad would be even more effective at this. Have to try it sometime.
Unfortunately, as others notes requiring multiple hits to cause any significant detriment to the enemy means they're usually dead by the time you accomplished your goal.
If you can pull of 4 successful sneak attacks against a target, it should be probably be dead anyways.
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I have been kind of intrigued by the idea of basing a build around the Ninja Trick 'Pressure Points'
** spoiler omitted **
I am picturing a ninja/monk type character who runs up and pokes you in a dozen places, crippling all your limbs. (Kinda like Ty Lee from Avatar)
I'm thinking 3 levels in unchained rogue to get the talent, finesse, and dex to damage...then switching to unchained monk for flurry, unarmed strike, better BAB, etc.
The idea is throw out a bunch of low damage attacks that sap the targets strength down to where they can't even move.
Thoughts?
Your character probably won't pop off fully until level 8 or 9 which means that you will be less effective and hindered to a degree up until that point. But your build will have an impact. The most effective thing to do is to kill an enemy but hindering them can be useful and fun over building a raw damage dealer. There will be people you play with who do not appreciate your character at all and will insult it or insult you but there is no reason to not play the character you want to.
Any enemy you encounter is likely to either be immune to the ability damaging class ability or be killed by your party members before the full effect of your build can be witnessed in its glory or be appreciated for its debuff. With that in mind, it is completely legit for the percentage of the time that it is going to help a bit. Also consider that while you aren't building a ton of sneak attack damage that you are still mostly an unchained monk. You are going to hand out ok damage regardless.
Guess I'll put this character on the back burner for now, sounds like it would be under powered and slow to achieve.
Thanks all :)
Its unfortunate because it really is a great character idea, just lacks the in game mechanics and options to make it work.
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I think it would work out to your advantage better when used with nonlethal attacks on target(s) you mean to capture and not kill, in a fight to the death it may not be optimal, but I do think its a fun idea and I am more partial to thematic and interesting over min/maxing.
I think it would work out to your advantage better when used with nonlethal attacks on target(s) you mean to capture and not kill, in a fight to the death it may not be optimal, but I do think its a fun idea and I am more partial to thematic and interesting over min/maxing.
I like taking thematic and interesting subpar strategies and trying to crank them up to as high a power level as they can go.
Like: How good can you get within these bounds of a character.
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Only way I could see this working out (after thinking about it for a couple days) would be if there is some way to get a ridiculous number of attacks per round as quickly as possible...preferable touch based attacks to make it easier to connect with them.
Maybe 2 levels in U-Rogue for the pressure points talent, 1 level in kineticist (with the kinetic knight archetype to get an energy based touch weapon), then TWF focused monk for flurry/ki attacks...even that would still come online pretty late for a PFS character...it is probably something best left to a homebrew campaign.
The option I've always considered on this front is the tengu ninja build with Imp Unarmed and TWF. If you spend ki points, you can get up to 6 attacks per round before you get to any BAB iteratives. It's worth noting that unchained rogue can get pressure points, as well, but you give up the ki pool to get dex to damage and other unchained rogue goodies.
The variation on the mist assassin I mentioned takes exactly 3 levels to get up and running. Ninja 2 / waves oracle 1. As a human your first 2 feats are PBS and precise shot, the 3rd level one is extra ninja trick. Your ninja tricks are flurry of stars and pressure points, your revelation is water sight (flame oracle/gaze of flames would also work), your spells known are obscuring mist and one other.
After that point you can go for unchained monk or whatever but it does work at level 3, with 3 attacks with shuriken at that point.
Is the important goal implementing a character concept OR using one specific Trick mechanic?
If it's the latter, that's been covered, and I can't help you.
If it's the former,
I'm going to suggest you consider mechanical means
besides the one that happens to be NAMED "Pressure Points" but that can still implement the concept.
The attraction to the Trick (besides the name) is the STR drain, which is pretty unique, but what does that really mean in game?
I don't think your character concept depends on doing STR tests of opponents at any point in time.
I don't think real-world or cinematic usages of "Pressure Points" hinges on the target having lower STR at any time.
(it is more so effect of neurological paralysis, not unimpeded action but simply weaker)
So what is real crux of concept?
You want to use lots of attacks (great, that isn't particularly unique) to disable opponents without killing them.
I'm going to suggest that simply dealing Non-Lethal damage is a good approach to use here.
It drops opponent without killing them, and if they have 'normal STR' when they 'come to', that doesn't contradict Pressure Point fluff.
How you want to approach that mechanical angle is pretty flexible, literally every class CAN do it.
Assuming you want to be very good at it, Monk is good place to start re: lots of attacks angle.
The Sap Master chain is also way to boost Non-Lethal damage, which means you will be very effective at this technique.
The previously mentioned Mantis Monk might be well used here, combining Monk Flurry with Sneak Attack.
(and of course does have STR drain aspect which certainly doesn't HURT your schtick/concept)
You could combine that with Rogue/Ninja to get some more Sneak Attack along with class abilities,
such as Finesse (DEX build helps Init -> Flat Footed) or others (Thug's Sicken effect seems VERY appropriate).
This is going to be much more effective because it doesn't hinge on you winning a STR drain mini-game nobody else is playing.
Non-Lethal Damage depletes same HP pool that normal damage does, so you will be working together with allies doing normal damage.
Using Mantis and Thug you will even get serious debuff effects along the way, which further the conceptual theme.
Although I'm sure there is many other builds that can also pull of the concept, just using Non-Lethal Damage concept as core.
I think you could probably build an esoteric magus via the frostbite/enforcer/rime spell build to do something similar too, not too thematically pressure point but with cosmetic alterations and gm wiggling for rule of cool itd probably be a doable thing.
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Just doing straight non-lethal damage doesn't really feel right to me...just feels like running up and beating them unconscious, which is what most PFS characters do the majority of the time. I was hoping for more of a disable them while they look on, helpless to do anything about it...poke them in the shoulder, their arm goes limp...tap to the thigh, cant move that leg...etc.
Building around the 'Dirty Trick' maneuver can sort of come close...maybe a few of the other maneuvers to diversify debuffs...
Any martial based disabling oriented feats (other than just straight non-lethal damage)?
Monk of the Mantis gives up a ton of feats to get higher sneak attack damage...my thoughts for this character were to stick with low 1 or 2 d6 sneak attacks, and focus more on doing Str damage with the pressure points modifier. Launch a full attack with 5-6 strikes and watch as the enemy is suddenly too weak to swing their weapon, or move in their armor, etc.
Stunning fist fits really well thematically, but with every monk I have seen played, it ends up being a gimmick ability that rarely works (or even gets used)
I used to think the same thing about stunning fist because I would forget to use it. But then with my most recent monk I actually made a point to use it the first time in a session (and when I had 3-4/day, first time in a fight) where I thought it would actually make a difference. It doesn't always land but it does land often enough to be worth the class feature, especially since my newest monk relies on as many consecutive hits as possible to do damage. So far it works about 2/3rds of the time I declare it. Could just be a campaign fluke, but its possible it is more useful than it seems.
For martial strength sapping debuffs, enforcer+cruel weapons flavoring the penalties as a sense of numbness accompanying terrifying strikes. Pretty solid -4 to attacks to represent a limb going numb and buckling. Maybe Felling Smash as well for the legs falling out from under them, or Quick Dirty Trick. Brawler is good for combat maneuvers in general.
I have been kind of intrigued by the idea of basing a build around the Ninja Trick 'Pressure Points'
** spoiler omitted **
I am picturing a ninja/monk type character who runs up and pokes you in a dozen places, crippling all your limbs. (Kinda like Ty Lee from Avatar)
I'm thinking 3 levels in unchained rogue to get the talent, finesse, and dex to damage...then switching to unchained monk for flurry, unarmed strike, better BAB, etc.
The idea is throw out a bunch of low damage attacks that sap the targets strength down to where they can't even move.
Thoughts?
People who say PP isn't good because after 3 hits the enemy is dead forgets they might have DR or you are.dealing non-lethal....
People who say PP isn't good because after 3 hits the enemy is dead forgets they might have DR or you are.dealing non-lethal....I have been kind of intrigued by the idea of basing a build around the Ninja Trick 'Pressure Points'
** spoiler omitted **
I am picturing a ninja/monk type character who runs up and pokes you in a dozen places, crippling all your limbs. (Kinda like Ty Lee from Avatar)
I'm thinking 3 levels in unchained rogue to get the talent, finesse, and dex to damage...then switching to unchained monk for flurry, unarmed strike, better BAB, etc.
The idea is throw out a bunch of low damage attacks that sap the targets strength down to where they can't even move.
Thoughts?
If you're not dealing enough damage to bypass the DR, you're not doing Pressure Point damage either. You need to sneak attack to deal Pressure Point damage as well so you're hitting even harder than normal to apply the str or dex damage and are in a tactically optimal position which means the fight is already leaning your way.
Let's say you hit twice in a round. You've given either a -1 to attack rolls and damage or a -1 to AC and reflex saves basically. Is that worth the dip? Dunno. Dex to Damage is a big deal and might be. Going slightly more for Debilitating Injury might be good too.
Usually though unless you're a thug rogue, the answer to a "Should I multiclass Rogue?" is "No."