We have a group that consists of a Cleric, a Witch, and a Samurai. What would you recommend the Alchemist build for, also should he be a vanilla alchemist or a particular archetype?
What level?
Starting at level 1
I would look for area debuffs or battlefield control. That is a specialty of bombs, so you are doing good there.
You don't really even need to build too much for that- mostly just spend discoveries on bombs. The bombs hit touch, so even if you are melee, you can do fine.
I mostly say bombs, since you have little battlefield control (not super sure on witch list, but seems more debuffs). Since the witch can evil eye things, you don't need to worry about DCs too much.
After that, go with whatever you want. You could go with claws, maybe a sword or bow from grenadier, or just stick to the back and do things like buffs. You have plenty of options- alchemists are great at options.
Yup, consider the Wings discovery to get flight early and often. Raining down bombs from the air is always a plus.
You get it at level 6, and you get minutes/level (which can be split up into minutes).
That means 6 minutes. Most battles last less than 1 minute. So that means 6 battles from the moment you get it.
I frankly find it a bit hard to imagine that you use more than that in a day unless you get involved with a dungeon and use flight every fight.
Also depends on what role the cleric is going to play. Presumably the samurai is going to be melee, and if the cleric is going to be melee as well, then ranged support might be a better role. Early levels, bombs aren't nearly as potent compared to mid to higher levels, but a longbow can fill in the gaps.
I know the Grenadier archetype is popular for ranged alchemist builds, but I've been saved so many times by having poison immunity (eventually) that I can't imagine giving it up.
The cleric is deciding on his role but his starting stats I can tell you are STR 11, Dex 10, Con 17, 16 Int, 16 Wis, 14 Cha.
I personally love a well-built Bomber type.
The last one I built was a Bomber but I built it with Agile AoMF and took a few buffs that would work well at both ranges (Displacement, Fly, Alter Self). I ended up being tankier than the Cavalier in full plate. While still being able to bomb the crap out of things and keep things controlled with Tanglefoot Bombs, force, curse and Stink Bombs.
So really a well-built alchemist I believe can accomplish just about anything and fit anywhere. Playing that character really got me aboard the Alchemist train.
The cleric is deciding on his role but his starting stats I can tell you are STR 11, Dex 10, Con 17, 16 Int, 16 Wis, 14 Cha.
What a waste. Q.Q
Looks like the cleric is most likely going to be a support caster with those stats. Witch is probably debuffing focuses, a subset of controll, and samurai is almost certainly a striker, so you have all the roles covered. Usually my advice is that the first double up should be another striker. Alchemist can perform this role admirably in either melee or ranged combat. Samurai is likely melee, and doesn't particularly depend on having a friend nearby so you either are good options there as well. Covering range, particularly with an archetype like the grenadier that has good range beyond just the thrown bomb range is a pretty good idea.
Yeah an aoe control bomber would be great
|
It seems like control bomber and melee are the top two options. Their are multiple ways to do both. For this you want high INT high primary physical stat.
One is Dex with weapon finesse, agile amulet of might fist (similar to Louise Bishop's build).
Pro:
- High accuracy at low levels with bombs. Good ac for little investment.
- Better initiative.
Con:
- Basically zero melee until you have 4000gp.
- To make the most of it you only have a few viable polymoph forms.
The second is Strength.
Pro:
- Better damage out the gate.
- Much better polymorph forms.
- Can use natural weapons or manufactured weapons (reach is nice, better for DR hardness)
Con:
- Low accuracy at low levels with bombs, but fine at mid levels as touch does not scale well.
- Likely want to pick up armor proficency (feat or dip).
Con:
- Low accuracy at low levels with bombs, but fine at mid levels as touch does not scale well.
- Likely want to pick up armor proficency (feat or dip).
I would not view accuracy as a problem on str build.
Because you only have a couple of bombs anyway at low levels, and only so many discoveries to do anything interesting. So it only starts to shine anyway around the level where touch AC stops being noticeable.
Early bomb use is just to do some damage. If you are a strength build, you can easily do damage early on with just normal means anyway.
Other note- Armor proficiency.... you can fake it. Grab armor expert, and then mithral armor. This works because the penalty for nonproficient armor use is to apply the Armor Check Penalty to attack.... so an ACP of 0 means 0 penalty. With armor expert and mithral breastplate you get that 0. So it is fairly simple for anyone that can grab metal armor to get this much.
|
I had an alchemist in a similar party configuration, and I had great luck with a trap breaker alchemist. They can find/disarm traps and make mines. All they give up is poison resist/immunity. Ended up being a utility build where I had infusion, and a bunch of potions with alchemical allocation. Did really with providing the party what it needed when it needed it, and still had bombs.
|
|
has everyone not noticed what the party is missing?
Skills - particularly Disable Device. Maybe also Stealth.
I'd suggest CryptBreaker Alchemist, maybe Chirurgeon/CryptBreaker to get some back-up healing (ultimately Breath of Life around 10th level). It get's Trapfinding like the Trapbraker (and get's it at 1st level, where Trapbraker get's it at 2nd), it just doesn't throw bombs at traps...
Racially, if this were in PFS, I'd suggest Wayang - or Ratfolk if it's available. Or just fall back to Elf (or Tiefling). But a small race with darkvision would be good, and all three of those races are +2 Int, +2 Dex which makes a good alchemist. (if you go Tiefling, but sure to pick up Prehensile tail so you can draw Splash Weapons more easily).
Add in the other trait, sargavan guard(?) to reduce the penalty by another 1, and the comfort enchant and you can wear fullplate with 0 ACP... Or hellknight plate in my case.
I tend towards the mithral breastplate, since it gives full speed, but yeah- if you are willing to pay the resources, why not? Seems like it would take a looong time to get the benefit though (since you need mithral heavy armor and an enhancement), so you might need to grab the breastplate as an intermediary armor anyway.
Probably the skill/scout role is going to be yours as well.
You make one orchids drop one time then use alchemical allocation to maintain it after taking the infusion discovery. Infusion keeps the orchids drop elixir from disappearing, and alchemical allocation lets you backwash it back for reuse every day. Its basically 2 extract slots and a discovery for a stackable +2 to saves and 2d10 heal on using mutagens.