Level / Tiered equipment and advanced technology

[Torbyne]

I have been wondering about this for a few days now, does anyone know if it has been addressed anywhere yet?

A common trope in sci-fi/fantasy is that there are forces out there with really strange, alien, and advanced super tech. things that are usually beyond the hope of the central characters from understanding or at least beyond their means of reproducing. But how well does that mesh with the idea that all gear has a level and the PCs are expecting to always be able to have access to APL+2 gear whenever they return to the station? Does this mean that from level 10 onwards they will completely abandon regularly produced equipment and just happen to have advanced prototype gear from secretive factions? From level 14 they are lugging around alien tech that works on principles that their own sciences cant explain and then they just chuck that in the bin when at level 18 they have a mystical gun from an ancient alien race that once wiped out the population of an entire planet?

That kind of stuff can be fun for the first campaign but it seems like you either make Pact World tech on par with the most advanced things out there or risk every campaign running high enough to see every PC decked out in Azlanti Star Empire power armor and experimental anti-swarm blasters.

I assume there will be minor artifact level gear that wont come up in every campaign but for the... i guess i'd call it the run of the mill higher level stuff, how does that fit into the setting? are there rules for higher tech things other than just making them higher level? Is some gear faction locked by more than level so the party's choice of allies early on will affect their options for gear later?

[Oykiv]

I don't think this will mean they will completely abandon regularly produced equipment, but they'll use more pricey regularly produced equipment. Both my car and a Porsche are regularly produced equipment, I can't buy the second, but if I were an adventurer with a profitable career I could buy the second,and the second have better characteristics. The same happen with guns, not all are equally precise, can be buyed with the same licence, etc.

As players go up in level thay have more money, better contacts to obtain the licences and know who sells that equipment.

Regarding the trope, I don't know if it will be un the Starfinder fluff from the begining. But you can do it easily if you wish; the playes found a race who's weapons had sensors to detect the owner DNA-alien equivalent and work using a kind of psychic impulses that only that race can emit. But they doesn't know that, so every attempt to use their equipment fails. Also, make that equipment slightly better and different than PCs equipment in a way they can see (an increase in the dice damage/area of efect, a damage different from the usual for that weapon). Same with non combat equipment but that they can see; every alien has an implanted internal computer so they can communicate/work/whatever no matter where they are, welding guns that work on metal but doesn't affect flesh (so no accidents). They could even obtain some samples and even use a little of them (the same way a primitive alien could use some of your equipment), but they don't know how to replicate it and the Pact World scientists need more samples, both from equipment and specimens, to make test until they can reverse engineering it. If they are ever capable.

[Jimbles the Mediocre]

The APs will probably contain loot that isn't listed in the CRB; however, assuming it has a higher power level than "standard" loot is probably a mistake. I think that instead we'll see items with unique and new abilities that have roughly the same power balance.

[Torbyne]

Jimbles the Mediocre wrote:

The APs will probably contain loot that isn't listed in the CRB; however, assuming it has a higher power level than "standard" loot is probably a mistake. I think that instead we'll see items with unique and new abilities that have roughly the same power balance.

Oh yes, this is the same niche i was thinking the minor artifacts would occupy.

I supopse what got me thinking about it is the surprising modularity of weapons in Pathfinder. Not all of the weapons are created equally but there is enough variance in base weapon types, especially with classes modifying how base weapons can work (adding properties, changing threat range or die size) that you can use almost any weapon to good effect over the full course of a character's career. The magic system also serve to make weapons of the same type stand out differently, adding Impact or Keen or Fiery Burst can all make the same longsword feel different. An idividual build may have an ideal weapon in mind but there isnt one weapon at the top of the gear list that all barbarians know they need to work towards. i wonder how much variance there will be at the top of this system though, will everyone want to end up with the Gamma Ray Projector that is a level 19 laser pistol as the best weapon choice or will we have some variance between the best laser pistol from the pact worlds but there is also a competitive ion carbine from Eox, an ultra rare fusion pump gun from Vesk-27 and this weird neural annihilator from a crashed Gray ship and they all have pros and cons that make it an actual choice between them.

Even then, while i want there to be those choices, it seems a little weird that the pact world tech is at least on par with the best the universe has to throw at the players.

[Damanta]

Why would you not have Pact World tech be on par with the best of the rest of the universe?

I'd prefer to see the Pact World tech be superior to the rest, they have to defend the biggest drift beacon in the known universe.

[Torbyne]

Damanta wrote:

Why would you not have Pact World tech be on par with the best of the rest of the universe?

I'd prefer to see the Pact World tech be superior to the rest, they have to defend the biggest drift beacon in the known universe.

Basically the Pact Worlds are the new kids on the scene. We know there have been interstellar polities for at least 12,000 years prior to the setting. The Azlanti Star Empire seems like it hasnt suffered nearly as much set back as the other Golarion civilizations would have, the Dominion of the Black has been doing the evil space game for several thousand years as well... it seems strange that the plucky new guys who are just now getting out and about have equal or better tech than all these other long time players. I'll give you that some of these others could have had their own set backs and if everyone in the home system wanted to fully share all their toys than Eoxian and Vercitian and Aballonian technology could have given everyone else a big leap forward but it still feels weird to already be on top, like, why bother exploring all these strange new worlds when they are at best just peers or near peers to Absalom Station? it would change the feel of the game a lot for me.

[Jimbles the Mediocre]

Torbyne wrote:

Basically the Pact Worlds are the new kids on the scene. We know there have been interstellar polities for at least 12,000 years prior to the setting.

There have been interstellar civilizations, yes. However, as far as we know, the pact worlds (and those that have interacted with the pact worlds) are the only ones with access to large-scale faster-than-light travel. Other civilizations have spread between systems, but only at sum-luminal speeds, which takes multiple (human) generations. Such a slow rate of expansion would likely limit technological innovation.

It's not unreasonable to think that the pact worlds, with Drift tech, have leap-frogged other civilizations and are at the absolute pinnacle of innovation. Now, the odds of nobody in the entire galaxy being ahead of the pact worlds are functionally zero; however, it's not unreasonable to think that most space-faring races should be roughly on par when it comes to upper power levels, and encountering significantly more powerful tech would be unlikely.

[Torbyne]

Jimbles the Mediocre wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

Basically the Pact Worlds are the new kids on the scene. We know there have been interstellar polities for at least 12,000 years prior to the setting.

There have been interstellar civilizations, yes. However, as far as we know, the pact worlds (and those that have interacted with the pact worlds) are the only ones with access to large-scale faster-than-light travel. Other civilizations have spread between systems, but only at sum-luminal speeds, which takes multiple (human) generations. Such a slow rate of expansion would likely limit technological innovation.

It's not unreasonable to think that the pact worlds, with Drift tech, have leap-frogged other civilizations and are at the absolute pinnacle of innovation. Now, the odds of nobody in the entire galaxy being ahead of the pact worlds are functionally zero; however, it's not unreasonable to think that most space-faring races should be roughly on par when it comes to upper power levels, and encountering significantly more powerful tech would be unlikely.

I am not sure that is accurate, i thought the released information from Starfinder says when Triune ascended the Drift was suddenly universal and everyone could access it immediately, this is how pockets of Near Space and Beacons popped up across the galaxy almost at once. the Starstone acting as a giant beacon on its own makes Absallom a giant lighthouse for everyone to check out but it sounds like they didnt get any big head start over any one else.

There are also many means of FTL travel apart from the Drift though i think the new rules will severely curtail access to those. For one, there are gate systems that lead to other worlds, there are two or three species that can naturally travel at FTL speeds (being able to travel between systems in a few weeks or months, one of which specifically is able to carry passengers) and there is a proven method of traveling via wormhole technology. Aside from those, it has always been assumed that the interstellar polities had methods of traveling in strategically relevant time spans... possibly by studying one of the naturally occurring FTL biologicals. But in any event, there have been pockets of FTL capable polities for several thousand years and several groups who seem to have had stability and means to conduct research for a similar amount of time so i am surprised that they didnt end up vastly more advanced than the plucky heroes from the mudball who were whacking each other with pointy sticks up until recently.

[Gilfalas]

With the Starstone being the single most powerful drift beacon currently known, I am gonna guess Absalom station is a massive trading hub for nearly any species that uses the Drift.

That, over a few centuries, can translate into massive wealth and technological trading to get the most cutting edge tech available.

If your the easiest place in the galaxy to get to and you're literally on everyone's maps, that is a bug economic advantage.

[David knott 242]

Being in such a central location could also make Absalom Station a major target. I would not assume that it is necessarily in a permanently dominant position.

[Gilfalas]

David knott 242 wrote:

Being in such a central location could also make Absalom Station a major target. I would not assume that it is necessarily in a permanently dominant position.

I completely agree. It is definitely a double edged sword. I think it will be fascinating seeing if it has become a military power, economic power, both, neither or whatever it may be.