One of my current characters is an assassin, who will occasionally be using injury poisons to weaken and dispatch targets. I want her to be able to use those poison needle rings that you sometimes see in cinema, to deliver low-damage attacks out-of-combat that won't be noticed by the target. It doesn't have to be a ring - an acupuncture needle or something else would be fine for this purpose. The damage doesn't matter, either, as long as it can deliver an injury poison to the victim without him/her noticing.
I couldn't find any rules on attacking without catching the target's attention, however, so I want to ask the forum for assistance. Are there any optional rules that deal with this, or any way to accomplish such a thing by RAW?
Thanks.
NOTE: I know it's possible to use inhaled or ingested poisons, but the poison I want to use is a 3pp feature (from the Rajah class), so it has to be injury. I have access to DSP, Legendary Studios, and Spheres of Power/Might as well, if it helps.
Basically, this isn't supported by the rules at all as far as I know.
Unless there is something to specifically state they don't notice the attack, they notice it.
By the rules there is no way to do this. Once you are attack stealth ends so they will know where you are, and you can't remain hidden without stealth.
The closest thing to what you are trying to do is sniping, but that requires a ranged attack, and even then there is a big penalty to your stealth check so it will be hard to not be seen.
a Slayer is usual a better choice for a Assassin. They get Assassinate which can be use a rang and silent kill where they can slip into the shadow, Adder Strike might help as was as Switch Blade Knife, or Spring blade. A Dagger Mark Poisoner or a Alchemist can change poison types. I do known somewhere in 3.5 their is a poison ring and I have the book I just don't know where at this time.
Even then, successfully using stealth doesn't mean they don't notice the attack, only that they don't notice the attacker.
There is nothing anywhere in the rules that implies that you don't know when you're damaged, if fact it seems to be a base assumption of the rules. So while they might know it was you, they're going to know they've been attacked (though probably not with poisons).
In the movies I have seen, the target FEELS the poke of the needle, and but the assailant has successfully hidden the instrument used (sleight of hand), and the target is made to think the poke was from something far less sinister (bluff), like a stray thorn on the assailant's clothing, or a larger impact of a full on collision (bull rush) is used to hide the pin prick sensation. Either way, the assailant either keeps running right past the target (spring attack, or use of a quick runners shirt), or stops to apologize for being such a clumsy oaf (bluff), before going on his way.
Regardless of the approach, a good disguise is key to make the encounter believable. For the running by pin prick, maybe incorporate a semi-open bag, slung over your shoulder, filled with a variety of pointed objects sticking out (sticks, arrows, scrap-metal, etc).For the knocking hard into the target option, get the Shield Slam feat for the free bullrush. Then, get a diminutive sized light steel shield with a shield spike. You can poison the shield spike, and either mount the shield to your hand as a decorative ring. You will take a -6 to the attack roll due to the shield being inappropriately sized by 3 size categories - but the target should also be flatfooted to the attack (so long as you made the proper bluff check to feign harmlessness ahead of time)
The other option that hasn't been mentioned is that maybe you should focus on custom trap-making. A trap can be triggered and go off without you being there or anyone knowing that a person was responsible for what occurred. You could have a time delay touch activated poison dart trap, where the dart has been made invisible and had silence put on it.
now the target gets hit by something he can't see, and if he yelps out in pain, nobody around him hears him yell. the only way he could successfully tell anyone about the attack is if he removes the invisible dart and drops it, thereby losing his evidence of any wrongdoing... meanwhile, you are nowhere near the trap, and are just blending in with the crowd looking concerned at the "manic street mime".... possibly you are looking for a new place to set your next time-delayed trap to him him with the next dose of poison...
Sleight of hand and Bluff. SoH to deliver, Bluff to look innocent after they notice the small prick. (insert gratuitous joke here)
There are two ways I know of to do this explicitly by the rules, both of which require rogue talents.
You can do it with a +1 weapon of spell storing that stores Memory Lapse. Place the poison on the weapon, and presto, you have your desired delivery.
Of course, with a Will save on the spell, it might not work.
/cevah
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Many thanks for the replies.
I think that given all the suggestions, the best (easiest) way would probably be to bluff+sleight of hand it off, since I have high bonuses in all of them. She could go around carrying a bunch of wooden boxes and "bump" into her targets by accident, or fake weakness and play it off. The other methods are a bit too conditional (or require 3.5e stuff that might not be approved).
Many thanks!
Many thanks for the replies.
I think that given all the suggestions, the best (easiest) way would probably be to bluff+sleight of hand it off, since I have high bonuses in all of them. She could go around carrying a bunch of wooden boxes and "bump" into her targets by accident, or fake weakness and play it off. The other methods are a bit too conditional (or require 3.5e stuff that might not be approved).
Many thanks!
That also doesn't work by the rules. If they are attacked they know they have been attacked, and attacking automatically ends stealth.
So you are facing two issues. One is hiding the fact that you attacked them, and the other is keeping stealth after the attack is made.
DrDeth's suggest requires GM fiat to overrule the book at least on the not breaking stealth part, and it doesn't just break stealth against the person you attacked, but for everyone with line of sight to you.
I can't say the rules persay..
but that ring you were taklinga bout? is actually in one of the books somewhere. I dont' remember what it said though...
but I want to say it allowed a touch attack to apply the poison.
Are you thinking of Poisoner's Gloves?
According to the description of the Nonchalant Thuggery trait, it takes a Bluff check to "keep others from noticing your aggressive actions".
It's practically impossible to deny you just stabbed someone with a poisoned dagger though. But that's okay: it's just a -20 modifier to the Bluff check.
@wraithstrike - Just because have been attacked, and know you have been attacked, doesn't mean you know every detail about the attack. We aren't saying that the assassin should use a two handed greataxe and come running at the target while yelling "BLOOD & BATTLE!!!!" before overhand chopping the guy in the head in order to apply the poison. Sure - in that case, there would be no question what had happened.
But if the assassin uses an invisible weapon, a disguised weapon, or a weapon that was concealed before the attack and was quickly hidden directly after the attack, their is already casue for doubt as to what just transpired. AND... if after the attack, the assassin is able to make the bluff check to feign harmlessness (even if he AHD just hit the guy one time with a greataxe, such a roll would only be performed with a -10 penalty), convincing the target that the pain he had just felt was a one-time fluke (a task for which he will likely gain a circumstance bonus due to the props he has brought with him that provide a perfectly believable explanation for what caused the target's sudden pain)..... we are saying that it is possible to attack the target a single time, without the encounter ever escalating into an initiative roll/combat encounter.
This isn't by any means a slam dunk/always win solution. Even if the assassin has invested heavily in SoH and Bluff... even if he makes all of his rolls... there could still be a target with a short fuse. You know they type - the guy that is itching for a fight, and will punch the first person who bumps into him at a crowded tavern. But even then, he isn't attacking you because he thinks you are an assasin who just tried to poison him - he is attacking you because he is a bully.
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According to the description of the Nonchalant Thuggery trait, it takes a Bluff check to "keep others from noticing your aggressive actions".
It's practically impossible to deny you just stabbed someone with a poisoned dagger though. But that's okay: it's just a -20 modifier to the Bluff check.
(-20 or more, subject to the DM)
The heavy wrist launcher fires a crossbow bolt as a light crossbow (80' range increment, max distance = 400'-0"). Sure, the target will know they got hit by a poisoned bolt, but with those range- based penalties to perception, they would have no clue you were the one who shot them.
i still like the idea of making the ammunition invisible and having it carry the silence spell on it. the confusion it would cause would give you ample thine to be far far away before anyone could make sense of what had happened
find some wonderous item that is a delayed blast fireball. SoH to activate it and drop it in the folds of someone's clothes. find a way to get a darkness and silence effect on it as well. and maybe some boots to help you move faster after planting the bombs.
Dude - a single use, delayed blast fireball bomb would cost 2200 gp.
a command word activated, multi-use delayed blast fireball bomb creator would be 167,800 gp!nor sure if that is really sustainable