According to Vic in this thread, after the first check, all you have is the result (a number) - no traits at all.
(Which I still think is an unfortunate ruling because it's so unlike one's natural expectations.)
Yeah I am still trying to figure out if that's what he said or not, the response was a bit unclear. In the end it f that's what he meant (and I'd still like him to confirm it clearly as there was some confusion above on if that's what he meant or not) this feels like it makes Chain Lightning far more powerful with the downside being you might run into an enemy that requires magic to defeat and get screwed lol, but could easily defeat an electricity immune enemy and that this result could be used regardless of how you choose to do combat (use a different weaker spell, use melee/strength, use a ranged weapon), it just changes the final number regardless of what is rolled but only gets traits from the newly used method? I guess that could make sense...
So you still have traits, those you choose based on how you choose to do any subsequent combat, you just get the result of your original chain lightning cast? So second battle use a staff, get strength, melee, combat, staff, bludgeoning, magic (if a magic staff), and element of the staff etc., anything added (gecko for fire etc.), but the result can be whatever chain lightning had? Would I roll first, then choose if I want that result or Chain Lightning's? I'm thinking yes.
The most natural interpretation of what Vic said is that the check has no traits whatsoever. His "surprised you find it counterintuitive" post below even somewhat confirms this. So that's how I'd (begrudgingly) play it for now.
However, it's entirely possible that all he actually meant was "The original check's traits aren't (automatically) added to the check", or even more narrowly that "the skill you originally used isn't added to the check". He never explicitly addressed whether the rule:
"Some cards may allow you to replace the required skill for a check with a different one; ... When you play a card that does this, add that card’s traits to the check;"
doesn't (separately) apply, so it still might. I don't personally see any good reason why it wouldn't other than Vic maybe indirectly having said so.
... but could easily defeat an electricity immune enemy and that this result could be used regardless of how you choose to do combat
Nope. Go back and read the parts of this thread that discuss immunity (and also that fact that choosing to use your previously-rolled Chain Lightning result *is* playing the Chain Lightning card).
Even though your check wouldn't have the Eletricity trait, you can't use the result against a monster immune to Electricity.So second battle use a staff, get strength, melee, combat, staff, bludgeoning, magic (if a magic staff), and element of the staff etc., anything added (gecko for fire etc.), but the result can be whatever chain lightning had? Would I roll first, then choose if I want that result or Chain Lightning's? I'm thinking yes.
Nope. I suggest re-reading Vic's explanation in this thread. You decide whether or not you are going to use the Chain Lightning result when you are determining your skill for the check. Then that's your result. All you can do after that is use powers or play cards that effect the check but not the result (for instance to add a trait).
Rulebook says: “A few cards that can be used on checks don’t use any of your skills; they instead specify the exact dice you need to roll or the result of your die roll.” And “When you’re playing a card to determine the skill you’re using, that card’s traits are also added to the check;”
Both quotes are in the determine which skill you’re using step of the check. This makes RAW 100% for-sure add Chain Lightning’s traits to subsequent checks, since you are still playing Chain Lightning on those checks (you have to choose to use its power to take the existing result each time).
You don’t get any other traits though, such as traits from your Arcane skill (meaning no Intelligence trait of you have Arcane: Intelligence and no Charisma trait of you have Arcane: Charisma), because you aren’t using that skill on those checks.
Long debate.....
We are using the following as a rule as of today:
Chain Lightning (and similar), where you can reuse a result:
All it does it give you a result. Here's how it breaks down in the steps of the encounter:
Determine Which Skill You’re Using:
The first paragraph says you get to choose any of the listed skills for your check. So you choose a skill (this is essential for the "Determine the Difficulty" step to function). In the second paragraph, we see that "A few cards that can be used on checks don’t use any of your skills; they instead specify the exact dice you need to roll or the result of your die roll." So even though you chose a skill, you don't use it for the check. Then the result of the sentence "The skill you’re using for the check, and any skill referenced by that skill, are added as traits to the check" is that no traits are being added to the check at this time.
Determine the Difficulty:
All applies as usual.
Play Cards and Use Powers That Affect Your Check (Optional):
As usual, but note that since you already have a result, you can't play cards or use powers whose only effect is determining a result.
Assemble Your Dice:
"The skill you’re using and the cards you played determine the number and type of dice you roll," and since none of those things actually did that thing, nothing actually happens here.
Attempt the Roll:
Since you have no dice, none of the die rolling stuff applies, but you do process this: "If the result is greater than or equal to the difficulty of the check, you succeed. If the result is lower than the difficulty, you fail." And then you go on from there as usual.
So, as written, it gives you a result, and only a result. It doesn't use a skill, or add a trait.
So you can use the chain lightning result on a bane that is immune to the attack trait.
And you can use it against a ghost but unless you have a way to add the magic trait to that check the ghost won't be defeated.
Determine Which Skill You’re Using:
The first paragraph says you get to choose any of the listed skills for your check. So you choose a skill (this is essential for the "Determine the Difficulty" step to function). In the second paragraph, we see that "A few cards that can be used on checks don’t use any of your skills; they instead specify the exact dice you need to roll or the result of your die roll." So even though you chose a skill, you don't use it for the check. Then the result of the sentence "The skill you’re using for the check, and any skill referenced by that skill, are added as traits to the check" is that no traits are being added to the check at this time.
You've skipped the part that says "When you play a card that does this, add that card’s traits to the check". This is the part that should add the cards traits to the check.
We all agree (by now) that "The skill you’re using for the check, and any skill referenced by that skill, are added as traits to the check" doesn't apply, that's not the issue in question any more.
So you can use the chain lightning result on a bane that is immune to the attack trait.
Either way no you can't, as others have already said above. You can't for the same reason you can't use the 2d4 from Incendiary Cloud, if they're immune to something they can't be affected by a card with that trait, regardless of whether the trait is added to the check or not.
...you can't use the 2d4 from Incendiary Cloud, if they're immune to something they can't be affected by a card with that trait, regardless of whether the trait is added to the check or not.
Um... I apologize for muddying the immunity discussion, but if Incendiary Cloud was displayed during a prior encounter, the only reason you couldn't add Incendiary's Cloud's 2d4 to a combat check against a monster immune to fire is *because* Incendiary Cloud specifies it adds the Fire trait along with the 2d4. If it didn't say that, you could add the 2d4, because adding a static bonus granted by a displayed card is not playing the card. (This is the RAW for immunity. It's weird, but there it is.)
...you can't use the 2d4 from Incendiary Cloud, if they're immune to something they can't be affected by a card with that trait, regardless of whether the trait is added to the check or not.Um... I apologize for muddying the immunity discussion, but if Incendiary Cloud was displayed during a prior encounter, the only reason you couldn't add Incendiary's Cloud's 2d4 to a combat check against a monster immune to fire is *because* Incendiary Cloud specifies it adds the Fire trait along with the 2d4. If it didn't say that, you could add the 2d4, because adding a static bonus granted by a displayed card is not playing the card. (This is the RAW for immunity. It's weird, but there it is.)
Ok sorry you're right about the clouds and the attack trait. I was actually mixing up this quote “If a card tells you to ignore something, the thing you’re ignoring never has any effect on you.”, and applying it to immunities rather than to ignoring. I guess it doesn’t work the same both ways!
The point is actually that Chain Lightning says “may”, and thus you are playing the card when you (re-) use it. So you genuinely can’t use it, just for different reasons than I said above.