Fallen Paladin

[GhostwheelX]

The other day, I had a player who was playing a paladin to fall. Details below, spoiler'd for spoilers from #6-22, Out of Anarchy.

Spoiler:

The paladin watched as others in the party took part in torturing Olandil for information after they sided with the Loyalists. I ruled that in simply watching without saying anything, or even leaving in disgust that Sarenrae was disgusted with his inaction, and that he fell due to this.

Was I right in ruling that the player's paladin fell from grace, and requires spending 8 PP (or buying spellcasting services) for an atonement spell to regain his paladin-hood?

[Ragoz]

You have to give them a chance to take corrective action before an alignment change. If after that warning they still proceed then you change their alignment.

[GhostwheelX]

While he had multiple chances to take corrective action (it took a few checks to get the job done, and in that case, what is a phylactery of faithfulness for?), I didn't explicitly state that he would fall due to what occurred. Should I change my ruling before finalizing the chronicle sheet?

[Terminalmancer]

Can't speak to exactly what happened but based on your summary, I would be particularly careful about it and would hesitate to make a paladin fall. Paladin/party interactions and whether a paladin can and should fall for the actions of party members (in PFS especially) is a bit of a controversial subject... as evidenced by some recent threads in the general PFS forum.

There's also the metagame question of whether the player was actually paying attention, were they distracted, etc.

Generally Ragoz is correct, so if you didn't explicitly warn them, that's a problem. Also keep in mind that PFS paladins are generally expected to work well with other party members, including clerics of evil deities, necromancers, thieves, devil summoners, and the like. The level of behavior needed to fall is usually expected to be more dire in PFS due to the number of things that are out of the paladin's control.

[BigNorseWolf]

You absolutely have to warn them. PFS characters come with a phylactery built in, exactly for this sort of situation. There is no way the player and DM can get on the same page on an issue this complicated, so you have to warn them when you think they're crossing the line.

[outshyn]

Here is the relevant section from the PFS rules:

Quote:

Alignment infractions are a touchy subject. Killing an innocent, wanton destruction, and other acts that can be construed as evil might be considered alignment infractions. Ultimately, you are the final authority at the table, but you must warn any player whose character is deviating from his chosen alignment. This warning must be clear, and you must make sure that the player understands the warning and the actions that initiated the warning. The PC should be given the opportunity to correct the behavior, justify it, or face the consequences.

If infractions continue in the course of the scenario or sanctioned module or Adventure Path, an alignment change might be in order. If you deem these continued actions warrant an alignment change, you should note it on the character’s Chronicle sheet at the end of the session in the notes section. The character can remove this gained condition through an Atonement spell.

If Atonement is needed, players are supposed to resolve that before going home after the game. Being a "fallen paladin" isn't allowed to carry over into the next game. The player forks over cash immediately at the game conclusion, and goes back to being a normal paladin in good standing.

If you didn't warn the player outright, by flat-out stating exactly what would happen and what was at risk, then you cannot make the paladin fall, according to PFS rules.

[GhostwheelX]

Gotcha, in that case easy to take care of the matter and simply handwave it. Thanks for the advice!