Viable dex to attack and damage slayer, help wanted.

[ViConstantine]

Im trying to design a pure slayer that just straight up doesnt need str, maybe the highest possible id take is 13 to be able to have something like power attack if its needed. I have 25 points to spend and want to make an epic slayer that relies on their dexterity over everything. I need feats and weapons that work well together to make this work. Suggestions? Im playing a Human.

So far the feats I have planned are Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus: Shortsword, Piranha strike, and Slashing grace. These feats should all work well with the Shortsword though the Shortsword isnt really an amazing weapon and im afraid that not being able to two hand it if needed could be an issue, I cant even have a shield in the second hand other than a buckler :/

[Lady-J]

4 levels of unchained rogue rest slayer and twf with kukris

13,(18+2)20,16,7,12,7

[ViConstantine]

Lady-J wrote:

4 levels of unchained rogue rest slayer and twf with kukris

13,(18+2)20,16,7,12,7

This answer would be acceptable but.....i kinda really dont want to dip, if i wanted to dip id take the obvious answer and just go 1 level into swashbuckler to get any one handed weapon I wanted to be usable with finesse....you know, from there use power attack instead of pirhana strike and still get weapon focus and slashing grace but I dont want to multiclass. The challenge here is using a pure slayer. Its especially not worth throwing 4 levels into unchained rogue.

[avr]

As a slayer that means you're taking either fencing grace, slashing grace or starry grace (for a rapier, a light slashing weapon, or a starknife respectively.) In any case you'll be using a single weapon to attack which isn't ideal but it does mean that the Weapon Trick: One-handed feat is an option. It might be worth picking up Combat Reflexes and that Weapon Trick feat.

Another way to make this good would be to go all in on a combat maneuver. Trip, disarm, sunder and maybe dirty trick can be performed with a weapon, which would avoid requiring agile maneuvers as another feat tax. e.g. for trip:
1: Weapon Finesse
Human: EWP: Whip
2: Weapon Training (Weapon Focus: Whip)
3: Slashing Grace
4: Ranger Combat Style (Calistria): Whip Mastery
5: Improved Whip Mastery
6: Ranger CS: Improved Trip
7: Poised Bearing
8: Combat Trick: Fury's Fall
9: Combat Reflexes
10: Ranger CS: Greater Trip

Or for dirty trick:
1: Weapon Finesse
Human: Weapon Focus (gladius)
2: Combat Trick: Slashing Grace
3: Dirty Fighting
4: Ranger CS (Underhanded): Improved Dirty Trick
5: Piranha Strike
6: Ranger CS: Greater Dirty Trick
7: Kitsune Style
8: Poison Use
9: Superior Dirty Trick
10: Ranger CS: Quick Dirty Trick

[ViConstantine]

avr wrote:

As a slayer that means you're taking either fencing grace, slashing grace or starry grace (for a rapier, a light slashing weapon, or a starknife respectively.) In any case you'll be using a single weapon to attack which isn't ideal but it does mean that the Weapon Trick: One-handed feat is an option. It might be worth picking up Combat Reflexes and that Weapon Trick feat.

Another way to make this good would be to go all in on a combat maneuver. Trip, disarm, sunder and maybe dirty trick can be performed with a weapon, which would avoid requiring agile maneuvers as another feat tax. e.g. for trip:
1: Weapon Finesse
Human: EWP: Whip
2: Weapon Training (Weapon Focus: Whip)
3: Slashing Grace
4: Ranger Combat Style (Calistria): Whip Mastery
5: Improved Whip Mastery
6: Ranger CS: Improved Trip
7: Poised Bearing
8: Combat Trick: Fury's Fall
9: Combat Reflexes
10: Ranger CS: Greater Trip

Or for dirty trick:
1: Weapon Finesse
Human: Weapon Focus (gladius)
2: Combat Trick: Slashing Grace
3: Dirty Fighting
4: Ranger CS (Underhanded): Improved Dirty Trick
5: Piranha Strike
6: Ranger CS: Greater Dirty Trick
7: Kitsune Style
8: Poison Use
9: Superior Dirty Trick
10: Ranger CS: Quick Dirty Trick

These are interesting suggestions though im vetoing whips automatically because personally i think whips are one of the stupidest weapons known to man and the idea of using one annoys me too much to consider. Im not sure why pick the gladius over the shortsword either as they are essentially the same weapon. I drastically hate the idea of dipping in general but I felt I might have to dip to get a better weapon as I just cant get a longsword or something along those lines to work with weapon finesse which is a massive shame as its such an iconic and descent weapon. I do appreciate the suggestion though. Dipping for 4 levels into rogue just seemed like way too big of a dip for me and im completely unwilling. 1 level into swashbuckler for the longsword is much more reasonable though I still dont like the idea to be honest.

[avr]

A short sword is a piercing only weapon so isn't valid for slashing grace. There's other alternatives of course - with the river rat trait daggers are as good as either for example, or you could go with a rapier/fencing grace or a starknife/starry grace.

The difference between a gladius/short sword and a long sword is only 1 point of damage on average. A level dip in swashbuckler for the parry is sensible, but if you're doing it for one point of damage/hit you might want to reconsider.

[ViConstantine]

avr wrote:

A short sword is a piercing only weapon so isn't valid for slashing grace. There's other alternatives of course - with the river rat trait daggers are as good as either for example, or you could go with a rapier/fencing grace or a starknife/starry grace.

The difference between a gladius/short sword and a long sword is only 1 point of damage on average. A level dip in swashbuckler for the parry is sensible, but if you're doing it for one point of damage/hit you might want to reconsider.

Thats fair i guess but...i dont know 1d6 and 1d4 weapons are just...so g*@ d+%n pitiful in my opinion. I dont roll high with them no matter what build I use and I cant explain why. The fact that I cant crank out that extra 2-4 damage on a roll bothers me on a very small level. I just wish there were light weapons that were ascetic and not just plain old not good. If slashing grace only allows me to use a single weapon then why on earth would I not go for one with the potential to do more damage in the end? Also the dodging panache and parry are pretty decent abilities for level 1.

[Entryhazard]

Two-Weapon Grace from the Villain Codex lets you use Slshing grace with two weapons, but you get an ulterior -2 to attacks

Hand's Autonomy from Haunted Heroes Handbook should compensate that

[Lady-J]

ViConstantine wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

4 levels of unchained rogue rest slayer and twf with kukris

13,(18+2)20,16,7,12,7

This answer would be acceptable but.....i kinda really dont want to dip, if i wanted to dip id take the obvious answer and just go 1 level into swashbuckler to get any one handed weapon I wanted to be usable with finesse....you know, from there use power attack instead of pirhana strike and still get weapon focus and slashing grace but I dont want to multiclass. The challenge here is using a pure slayer. Its especially not worth throwing 4 levels into unchained rogue.

the dip would let you twf with dex to hit and damage or thf with dex to hit and 1.5x dex to damage and slayer with a 4 level unchained rogue dip is actually really good

[avr]

If a large damage die is necessary for you to be lucky there is one more alternative. I'd forgotten it at first. There are some problems - it starts off slowly and you have to worship the Goddess of Shallow but Stubborn Cheerleaders. If you're after 1d10+dex mod damage on a slayer though, the bladed brush feat is for you.

Assuming pure slayer then it'd start
1: Weapon Finesse
Human: Weapon Focus (glaive)
2: Combat Trick: Bladed Brush
3: Slashing Grace

I'd probably get that 13 Str so that levels 1-2 aren't a disaster, and so you can take power attack. Combat reflexes would also be on the get early list. You could then build on one of those two or maybe head for a trip build, a reach weapon helps with that.

[Torbyne]

Sawtooth Sabers, Slashing Grace, Two Weapon Grace and hands autonomy?

i think that would take up ~7 feats to pull off though but you get dex to hit and damage with two D8 weapons.

[Jack Rift]

It's only 3 lvls in unchained rogue, not 4 lvls. Gladiī are actually better than shortswords in that they allow for either piercing or slashing damage and benefit from feats and abilities that effect shortswords. As already mentioned, slashing grace only works with light or one-handed slashing weapons. There is no easy way to deal Dex damage with out either dipping 3 lvls into unchained rogue, or going down feat chains, most which require single weapon and off-hand and without shield. I don't have the new adventurer's book, that might have some stuff to help. But, only Slayer is hard. Sorry.

[Jack Rift]

Now, if you don't mind dipping. Unchained Rogue (knife master) 3 (pick daggers), slayer 4, and swashbuckler (flying blade) 5. Stopped at 12 lvls if your doing Society, otherwise Slayer keeps gaining lvls. Traits, River Rat for the extra +1 to damage and probably either reactionary or something to pad Will Saves. Stats 20pt buy are as fallows 10,19(17+2),14,13,13,7. Feats would be primarily aimed at weapon fighting, quick draw, and at least point blank and precise shot. With swashbuckler being a fighter for feats you can pick up weapon specialization for the extra +2 damage. I can put up a full build at some point if someone wants it.

[ViConstantine]

avr wrote:

If a large damage die is necessary for you to be lucky there is one more alternative. I'd forgotten it at first. There are some problems - it starts off slowly and you have to worship the Goddess of Shallow but Stubborn Cheerleaders. If you're after 1d10+dex mod damage on a slayer though, the bladed brush feat is for you.

Assuming pure slayer then it'd start
1: Weapon Finesse
Human: Weapon Focus (glaive)
2: Combat Trick: Bladed Brush
3: Slashing Grace

I'd probably get that 13 Str so that levels 1-2 aren't a disaster, and so you can take power attack. Combat reflexes would also be on the get early list. You could then build on one of those two or maybe head for a trip build, a reach weapon helps with that.

I never knew this feat existed and its absolutely hilarious, this is probably the best suggestion ive seen one one of these posts in a very long time. I appreciate it very much. For all of you who have mentioned something, thank you. I dont plan to dip anymore than a single level of anything if needed and if I go the glaive route, I dont even have to and thats marvelous. Thank you guys.

[ViConstantine]

Also, for anyone who reads this thread and needs help similar to what I have been doing, I just learned about the Effortless Lace magic item.

"This elegant silk ribbon gleams like mithral and feels like polished steel.

When wrapped around the grip of a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon for 24 hours, the ribbon’s magic permanently merges with the weapon, reducing the attack roll penalty incurred by a wielder who is smaller than the weapon’s intended wielder by 2 (to a minimum penalty of 0).

If the weapon is wielded by a creature whose size matches that of the weapon’s intended wielder, the weapon is treated as a light melee weapon when determining whether it can be used with Weapon Finesse, as well as with any feat, spell, or special weapon ability that can be used in conjunction with light weapons.

Once an effortless lace’s abilities have been conveyed to a weapon, the ribbon must remain attached to the weapon or its effects end immediately, its magic is permanently lost, and it is reduced to worthless cloth. Effects that would dispel the magic of the weapon or cause the weapon to gain the broken condition (such as sundering) destroy the ribbon as well."

With this 2500 gp item someone could use an ordinary one handed weapon and make it considered light for weapon finesse and feats, this also means that with this single item attached to a long sword or any other item thats weildable in one hand then I believe you could also use the feats I have been talking about with it.

[Lady-J]

Jack Rift wrote:

It's only 3 lvls in unchained rogue, not 4 lvls. Gladiī are actually better than shortswords in that they allow for either piercing or slashing damage and benefit from feats and abilities that effect shortswords. As already mentioned, slashing grace only works with light or one-handed slashing weapons. There is no easy way to deal Dex damage with out either dipping 3 lvls into unchained rogue, or going down feat chains, most which require single weapon and off-hand and without shield. I don't have the new adventurer's book, that might have some stuff to help. But, only Slayer is hard. Sorry.

yes but if your going 3 levels for the dex to damage and also going into another class that gives sneak attack dice you may as well go 4 levels in rogue for the debilitating injury and uncanny dodge

[Imbicatus]

An aldori dueling sword plus a one level dip in the aldori sword lord prc will give dex to damage with the dueling sword.

[Talon Stormwarden]

ViConstantine wrote:

avr wrote:

If a large damage die is necessary for you to be lucky there is one more alternative. I'd forgotten it at first. There are some problems - it starts off slowly and you have to worship the Goddess of Shallow but Stubborn Cheerleaders. If you're after 1d10+dex mod damage on a slayer though, the bladed brush feat is for you.

Assuming pure slayer then it'd start
1: Weapon Finesse
Human: Weapon Focus (glaive)
2: Combat Trick: Bladed Brush
3: Slashing Grace

I'd probably get that 13 Str so that levels 1-2 aren't a disaster, and so you can take power attack. Combat reflexes would also be on the get early list. You could then build on one of those two or maybe head for a trip build, a reach weapon helps with that.

I never knew this feat existed and its absolutely hilarious, this is probably the best suggestion ive seen one one of these posts in a very long time. I appreciate it very much. For all of you who have mentioned something, thank you. I dont plan to dip anymore than a single level of anything if needed and if I go the glaive route, I dont even have to and thats marvelous. Thank you guys.

This feat made me very happy until I realized it is not PFS legal. :(

[Diachronos]

If you're looking to go straight Slayer with absolutely no dipping, then you're going to be limited in weapon choice.

For high damage dice, I'd recommend:
Aldori Dueling Sword - Functionally the same as a longsword, but Exotic Weapon Proficiency allows you to use it with Weapon Finesse. Then just take Slashing Grace.

Estoc - Basically the rapier's answer to the scimitar-falchion relationship. Similar situation to the dueling sword: EWP to use it as a one-handed weapon with Weapon Finesse, take Slashing Grace.

Glaive - Take Bladed Brush and Slashing Grace.

Aside from those, the only way to pull off Dex to attack and damage is to either take 3 levels in Unchained Rogue, 1 level in Swashbuckler, or getting the Agile enchantment on a weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse.

[Garbage-Tier Waifu]

Diachronos wrote:

If you're looking to go straight Slayer with absolutely no dipping, then you're going to be limited in weapon choice.

For high damage dice, I'd recommend:
Aldori Dueling Sword - Functionally the same as a longsword, but Exotic Weapon Proficiency allows you to use it with Weapon Finesse. Then just take Slashing Grace.

Estoc - Basically the rapier's answer to the scimitar-falchion relationship. Similar situation to the dueling sword: EWP to use it as a one-handed weapon with Weapon Finesse, take Slashing Grace.

Glaive - Take Bladed Brush and Slashing Grace.

Aside from those, the only way to pull off Dex to attack and damage is to either take 3 levels in Unchained Rogue, 1 level in Swashbuckler, or getting the Agile enchantment on a weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse.

Estoc's a piercing weapon. Can't use Slashing Grace.

Honestly, is there any reason to build for Dex to Damage? I've played Strength Slayers and they are devastating. You have the option of getting Two-Weapon Fighting and it's tree without the annoying Dex requirements as well thanks to the Combat Style slayer talent, which allows for some seriously high damage output.

Dex to damage is just so absolutely terrible if you're not a URogue, and Swashbuckler only just manages to make it good by merit of Precise Strike. If you really wanted a dexterous warrior, I think a URogue with Scout and Outslug Style can do that just as well, if not better.

[Gray Warden]

Trait: Adopted -> Tusked,

1- Weapon Finesse
1B- Power Attack / Piranha Strike
2- Slayer Talent -> Ranger Combat Style Feat -> Natural Weapon -> Aspect of the Beast -> Claws

Buy an Amulet of Mighty Fists Agile (4000gp, you should be able to afford one between 3rd-4th level). You now make 3 primary natural attacks per round (bite, claw, claw) at full BAB using Dex to hit and damage. Throw in a Helm of the Mammoth Lord when you have money to add a gore attack.

[Garbage-Tier Waifu]

Gray Warden wrote:

Trait: Adopted -> Tusked,

1- Weapon Finesse
1B- Power Attack / Piranha Strike
2- Slayer Talent -> Ranger Combat Style Feat -> Natural Weapon -> Aspect of the Beast -> Claws

Buy an Amulet of Mighty Fists Agile (4000gp, you should be able to afford one between 3rd-4th level). You now make 3 primary natural attacks per round (bite, claw, claw) at full BAB using Dex to hit and damage. Throw in a Helm of the Mammoth Lord when you have money to add a gore attack.

Your only problem would be bypassing material DR (a pain in the ass for any natural attack build) but thankfully you can just use special material gauntlets to get around that without negatively affecting your attacks too much (they're unarmed attacks, so they benefit from AoMF).