Ahh... alliteration. Ha!
Context:
The reason I mention it is because we're likely going to be playing our characters for about 10 levels, so I want him to both enjoy and understand his character. He has told to make a character for him because "it looks really complicated" and "I trust you."
So, the other members of the party are a half-orc Volcano Oracle, an elf Scout Ninja, a dwarf Freebooter/Trapper Ranger, and a Grippli Bolt Ace.
This guy wants to play a Human, and Chaotic Good. He likes magic, but cannot STAND squishiness. Now, some people are going to suggest things like Magus, or Bard, or even Barbarian or Bloodrager, but I'm telling you: I know the guy, and I know that would overwhelm him.
So, I took a look at a Fighter, and thought, "hmm, with all these feats, I'm sure we can do something cool..." I'm thinking Eldritch Heritage and Raging Blood, so I'm looking for recommendations for that stuff, but also any other fun quasi-magical feats, too. Oh, and his concept of magic is basically Destruction magic from Skyrim, so nothing too subtle...
If he has a hard time getting things I suggest building his character picking a lot of passive options. The Fighter can be complicated if you make a build that it's too based in combat maneuvers, i.e.
Have you thought of the Slayer? It is also a good class and not very complicated. A ranger could be also a good option and he could have some spells while not relying on them to deal damage.
If you want to stick to the Fighter probably a two handed fighter with power attack is the most simple thing he could play. Note all his attacks counting already the power attack and he wouldn't have to do a lot.
If he has a hard time getting things I suggest building his character picking a lot of passive options. The Fighter can be complicated if you make a build that it's too based in combat maneuvers, i.e.
Have you thought of the Slayer? It is also a good class and not very complicated. A ranger could be also a good option and he could have some spells while not relying on them to deal damage.
If you want to stick to the Fighter probably a two handed fighter with power attack is the most simple thing he could play. Note all his attacks counting already the power attack and he wouldn't have to do a lot.
Thanks for the response!
He didn't want be a Ranger since someone else was. Slayer could definitely work...
I also should have mentioned that I was looking at the Eldritch Guardian archetype... the one "complicated" thing he wouldn't budge on was an animal companion, so we were thinking Rhamphorhyncus with Mauler Archetype.
I understand where you're coming from with passive abilities. However, I'm afraid he'll get bored with it if that's all there is. I'm leaning towards abilities he activates, but are consistent each time he plays (other than scaling with level, perhaps). Kind of like the dynamic of spontaneous, versus prepared, casting?
I totally get what you mean about Combat Maneuvers, too. That's why I was gonna hand him Power Attack, and then see what kind of "magicesque" feats I could hand him. He also likes the flavor of a Warrior with a smidgen of magic in his background.
Rather than focus on feats, why not mess around with Archetypes? After all, while they make your job slightly more complicated, we can use them to make a more interesting character that will be able to do more if your friend wants to do more than smash heads in:
I propose a combination (with some tweaking) of the Dragonheir and Martial Master archetypes, using Human for race.
First, Dragonheir allows you power up your sword with magic starting at level 1 via Arcane Strike as a bonus feat. We won't have any other use for that Swift Action until 9th level, so just assume it to always to be "on". At 3rd level, we even add some flavorful energy damage in place of your feat for that level.
Second, bravery, being a pesky save bonus that rarely comes up, is replaced with a bonus to Intimidate. And at 5th level, you can use Dazzling Display as a Standard Action without a weapon: while this seems complicated, there is BOUND to be an instance where your friend wants to scare the entire crowd, and this will allow him to do it.
The rest of Dragonheir stuff just boosts AC and grants protection to energy until level 15 when you get wings and 20 when you get some immunities and blindsense.
NEXT: we have the Martial Master. Basically, my thought is that you limit the bonus feats he can get to a handful of predetermined combos, and in exchange set it up so that you only ever raise the number of feats he gains, but always count it as a swift action.
So,
At 5th level, gain 1 feat as a swift
At 9th, 2 as a swift
At 14th, 3 as a swift
At 17th, allow 3 as an immediate
Drop the 20th level option, Dragonheir already has a 20th level power.
Basically, Martial Master let's your friend try out different strategies on the fly. The idea is to leave plenty of room for improvisation, without committing to a particular strategy, so that if he suddenly decides to break the ogres sword, or push the wizard off the cliff, or really focus on a single attack, he can.
EDIT In light of the use of a Eldritch Guardian, just drop the intimidation bonus for the Dragonheir.
Example 10th level Build, Human
(20 Point, +1 Dex/Con)
Str 18
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 9
Primary Weapon: Greatsword
Skills: (2 + human + 2 Int) = 5
Intimidate, Perception, Diplomacy, Ride, Sense Motive
Feats:
1 Arcane Strike, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
2 None - Mauler
3 None - +1 Nat Armor/Resist Fire 5, +1d4 Fire with Arcane Strike
4 Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)
5 Dazzling Display (Standard, no weapon), Start Martial Flexibility
6 Toughness
7 Iron Will
8 Improved Crit (Greatsword)
9 Critical Focus
10 Greater Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Martial Flexibility Combos
Name: 1st Feat Gained, 2nd Feat Gained, 3rd Feat Gained
Maneuver: Improved (Maneuver), Greater (Maneuver), Dodge
Defense: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack
Focused Attack: Furious Focus, Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike
Archery: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (bow used)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@Anonymous Warrior
Okay, so the Dragonheir Scion is awesome, and my new favorite Fighter archetype! Thanks!
If he doesn't go for it because he wants the familiar (the archetypes don't stack, do they?), what about this:
I was thinking Eldritch Heritage: Elemental (Earth), Raging Blood, and Improved Eldritch Heritage.
I know the power from Eldritch Heritage Elemental is junkcity, but the Bloodrager power is swift action acid damage (while raging only? Not sure), and the 9th level Elemental Blast from IEH gives the enemies weakness to his acid weapon strikes if they fail the save. I know it's not the most optimal, but I think it'll make him feel pretty bad@$$. Is it an awful idea, or just not the greatest?
This is assuming Dragonheir is a no go.
(As for Martial Master, I'll have to take a closer look)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Familiar Bond and Imp Famikiar Bond.
It seems just about anybody can get a familiar these days. Why, back in my day, nobody but no stinkin WIZARD could get no stinkin familiar and we LIKED IT DANGNABIT!
Hmm... okay. Now do you need Improved Familiar Bond for the Mauler Archetype?
Also, is the Eldritch Heritage setup I have outlined any good?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't think a Mauler familiar would be a good idea. This is his first time, so he might already struggle to handle one character on the battlefield: two would only be worse.
However, familiars are an amazing feature that adds variety and a touch of magic. If he likes them, I suggest a Sage fox (+2 Ref) or arctic hare (+4 Initiative) acting as the character's mentor.
I've noticed in fact that there's no knowledge-guy in the party: the familiar might roll all the knowledge checks and then suggest the fighter the best strategy each time.
The fighter is an experienced soldier who has learned to rely on the wise advice of his mentor to flexibly adapt to each circumstance, mixing battle skills and magic tricks to overtake any obstacle.
I second the Dragonheir Scion/Martial Master build, however it's clear that the archetype doesn't get 4th and 6th level bonus feats, so the previous build is wrong. I suggest instead:
Stats: 16+2 12 14 10 10 13 (increments to Str)
Focused Study human alternate racial trait.
Feats:
1- Power Attack
1H- Skill Focus(Knowledge(something the familiar has not))
1F- Arcane Strike
2F- Weapon Focus
3- Eldritch Heritage(Arcane) -> Familiar
5- Weapon Specialisation
(6)- Dazzling Display
7- Raging Blood
8F- Dirty Fighting
8H- Skill Focus(Use Magic Device)
9- Improved Critical
Max Perception and UMD, alternate ranks in Diplomacy and Intimidate (or max Intimidate), put just one point in the knowledge you have selected the Skill Focus in. Throw in a bunch of low level wands or scrolls for every-day problem solving (at 10th level he should get a +20 to the roll, which is more than enough to activate any wand).
In the end, the familiar is actually you. You make the knowledge checks and suggest him the best strategies according to the result of the knowledge check. It's important that you still give him 2-3 options, so that he can choose one. You (now as GM, not as familiar) then tell him which feat would be best to fulfil the strategy he chose, so that he can select it via Martial Flexibility (especially in case of combat maneuvers: in case of trip/disarm maneuvers, from level 5 to 8 use Martial Flexibility to get Dirty Fighting, after getting it as a fixed feat use it to get the corresponding Improved feat).
This lets you advice him without doing metagame.
@Anonymous Warrior
Okay, so the Dragonheir Scion is awesome, and my new favorite Fighter archetype! Thanks!If he doesn't go for it because he wants the familiar (the archetypes don't stack, do they?), what about this:
I was thinking Eldritch Heritage: Elemental (Earth), Raging Blood, and Improved Eldritch Heritage.
I know the power from Eldritch Heritage Elemental is junkcity, but the Bloodrager power is swift action acid damage (while raging only? Not sure), and the 9th level Elemental Blast from IEH gives the enemies weakness to his acid weapon strikes if they fail the save. I know it's not the most optimal, but I think it'll make him feel pretty bad@$$. Is it an awful idea, or just not the greatest?This is assuming Dragonheir is a no go.
(As for Martial Master, I'll have to take a closer look)
Technically, none of these three stack (except Martial Master/Eldritch Guardian). But it is fairly easy to ad-hoc the various parts of it into working. The big issue that I forgot was that you lose your bonus feat at first level if you go ELdritch Guardian, but you could instead just give up your bonus feat for being human instead. This guy is completely new to the game: he won't care if his character is entirely legal and neither will the rest of the party as long as he's balanced enough to not ruin it for them.
Also, Dragonheir is awesome, but severely broken as written. Technically, his Arcane Strike doesn't advance at all with the class.
And it replaces several odd level "bonus feats" which is really weird seeing as it's a paizo archetype.
Hmm... Sage is interesting... I'll run that by him.
Now, I still have the question of if you get a familiar through the familiar Bond feat, whether you get an Archetype, or only if you take Improved Familiar Bond, or not at all...?
@Anonymous Warrior
Okay, yeah. I just noticed that stuff about the Dragonheir... That's weird.
So, is the acid/elemental EH really a bad idea?
|
|
Hmm... Sage is interesting... I'll run that by him.
Now, I still have the question of if you get a familiar through the familiar Bond feat, whether you get an Archetype, or only if you take Improved Familiar Bond, or not at all...?
Usually familiar archetypes swap familiar features, so you need Improved Familiar Bond to take them. However, Sage doesn't so it's ok. Nonetheless, I suggest you get a familiar through Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) rather then Familiar Bond, since it gives you the familiar and fulfils the prerequisite for Raging Blood at the same time.
First level bloodline powers are all quite meh, except for the familiar, of course. The magical attacks aspect is covered by the Dragonheir Scion features and consumables (a wand of Scorching Ray for example), so in my opinion you don't need the Elemental bloodline power.
EDIT. Yes, the elemental EH is definitely a bad idea :P
EDIT. For the archetypes stacking, just ignore the Dragonheir Scion's 20th level feature. I know this is not how RAW work, but it's close enough imho. Of course the 3rd and 5th level bonus feats stuff is a typo and refers to 4th and 6th level bonus feats, hence you get the associated features at those levels rather than at 3rd and 5th.
Also, what level are you guys starting at?
EDIT @Grey's idea for Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) is a good one. It would certainly work better than trying to get the Eldritch Guardian Archetype to work (a LOT of good fighter archetypes replace Bravery).
I also suggest the slayer. The class description says its parent classes are the ranger and rogue, but you can easily play it as a reflavored fighter. You can use the ranger combat style to gain bonus feats, it has better saves and great skill points. If he wants to reduce the "people hunter" aspect, the vanguard archetype replaces it with some military flavor.
@Gray Warden
Okay, but if he takes the Arcane bloodline for EH, doesn't he have to take it for Raging Blood too? And that power is kinda useless for him, right?
As for the Dragonheir, how would one fix its issues? Obviously, Arcane strike should scale with his level. But what about the "3rd bonus feat" and "5th bonus feat"? How does one address those?
(Personally, I think bumping them higher is too rough. Level six is harsh to wait to receive Dazzling Display, even if it is weaponless)
EDIT: Standard action too? Nevermind. 6th seems fine
You could also acquire a Familiar or some Magical Abilities via Variant Multiclassing (Sorcerer, Witch, or Wizard in particular).
Based on Gray's suggestions
Example 10th level Build, Human
(20 Point, +1 Dex/Con)
Str 18
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 9
Primary Weapon: Greatsword
Skills: (2 + human + 2 Int) = 5
Intimidate, Perception, Diplomacy, Ride, Sense Motive
Feats:
1 Arcane Strike (go ahead and scale it to fighter level), Power Attack, Iron Will
2 Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
3 Eldritch Heritage (Arcane)
4 None - +1 Nat Armor/Resist Fire 5, +1d4 Fire with Arcane Strike
5 Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)
6 Dazzling Display (Standard, no weapon req.), Start Martial Flexibility
7 Toughness
8 Improved Crit (Greatsword)
9 Critical Focus
10 Greater Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Martial Flexibility Combos
Name: 1st Feat Gained, 2nd Feat Gained, 3rd Feat Gained
Power Attack Maneuver: Improved (Maneuver), Greater (Maneuver)
Combat Expertise Maneuver: Dirty Fighting, Improved (Maneuver), Greater Maneuver
Defense: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack
Focused Attack: Furious Focus, Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike
Archery: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (bow used)
Wrestling/Boxing: IUS, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple
Survival?: Endurance, Diehard, Mauler's Endurance
With Martial Flexibilty, I'd have cards with the feats and their descriptions listed. That should help tremendously. Keep a separate list of what the different Greater Maneuver feats do.
Okay, so Arcane EH is a definite option...
But does thay mean he has to take Arcane Raging Blood?
And we're probably starting on level one, but possibly 3.
It would, but I think Raging Blood was intended to only work during a Faux-Rage anyway (that is, those 4 rounds). And "Have to" is a very strong term in this game: there's absolutely nothing stopping you from instead just making it use the power from a different bloodline. Or for that matter, just making the +1d6 portion constant. But as written, you would use the Arcane bloodline power for both feats.
The one great thing about building someone's character for them as GM is that you can manipulate things behind a curtain, and you don't have to follow the rules to the letter as long as your final build is one you can work with as the GM and it won't peeve the other players.
|
|
@Gray Warden
Okay, but if he takes the Arcane bloodline for EH, doesn't he have to take it for Raging Blood too? And that power is kinda useless for him, right?As for the Dragonheir, how would one fix its issues? Obviously, Arcane strike should scale with his level. But what about the "3rd bonus feat" and "5th bonus feat"? How does one address those?
(Personally, I think bumping them higher is too rough. Level six is harsh to wait to receive Dazzling Display, even if it is weaponless)EDIT: Standard action too? Nevermind. 6th seems fine
Yes, he has to select Arcane bloodline with the Bloodrager as well. I agree that it's not very useful when he's not facing spellcasters, but in my opinion is still better than a ray that can be easily duplicated through consumable. Also, when facing casters, it's quite good. Anyway, it's you choice.
You could skip the Raging Blood feat altogether and get the familiar through Familiar Bond. Iron Will is nice for Fighters (but in this way you don't benefit from humans' Focused Study trait, hence losing the free UMD skill focus). Remember that you don't get the familiar bonus to saves/skills/initiative in this way. This means that while you get a +2 thanks to Iron Will, you lose a potential +2 to saves (foxes give +2 to Ref, hedgehogs +2 to Will) or +4 to Initiative (arctic hares, dodos, greensting scorpions), other than 2 free Skill Focus (to wrap it up, I suggest EH if it wasn't clear enough lol :P).
Regarding the archetype, it's not harsh bumping the features one level up: it's clearly how it was supposed to work. Also, getting Dazzling Display at 5th or 6th doesn't change much. I'm not so sure about Arcane Strike scaling though. The fact it doesn't scale doesn't seem a problem to me, since it actually enables the elemental damage boosting later on. Anyway, if you think it should scale, use the Fighter level as CL, and increase the bonus to damage by +1 every 5 levels.
Btw, Anonymous' build doesn't respect EH prerequisites. If you want a familiar from level 1, the only way is to get rid of the Raging Blood idea and take Iron Will and Familiar Bond at first level, Power Attack at 2, Weapon Focus at 3, and then as Anonymous'.
However, since I'm not a big fan of Toughness, I would take Combat Expertise or Dirty Fighting instead, so that he can select Improved Trip/Disarm/other through Martial Flexibility.
@Gray Warden
So a rather neutered Arcane Strike replaces your bonus feat? Eh. I'd rather have a different bonus feat.
And, I said harsh specifically for Dazzling Display at 6th, which I THEN retracted upon finding out it was a standard action AND weaponless.
The problem with Martial Master's Martial Flexibility is that it adds complications (however minor) without adding a magical feel/flavor. Something I'd rather avoid...
How about traits/feats that add spell like abilities?
|
|
There are traits that give cantrips as spell like abilities. There are also some ioun stones that give cantrips and 1st level spells as SLA as well (although at a cost).
The point is: if you want a martial character with a touch of magic, Arcane Strike, elemental boost to weapons, a familiar, the ability to activate spell trigger/completion objects and various magical effects deriving from magic items should do the job.
If you think this is not enough, then you probably need to switch to actual spellcasting (Bloodrager to say one).
Okay. I get where you're coming from. That'll probably do then. Thanks!
There is also an archetype for fighters that can actually cast spells, Child of Acavna and Amaznen. Here is what it losses/alters Weapon/Armor Proficiency; Skills; 1st, 2nd, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th-level Combat Feats; Armor Training; Weapon Training. Proficiency losses 2-handed martial weapons and tower shields, alters skill point to 4+Int adds linguistics, knowledges (arcana & religion), and spellcraft. At second lvl adds zero lvl spells, prepare 1+1 per 6 lvls and at 5th adds Bloodrager spells (knowing in spell book 3+ Int) with
Ranger progression. Massive loss of feats, but gets actual spells and at 3 gets a modified version of arcane armor training that taking the normal feats adds an etra 10% to it's scaling reduction (also using swift like normal arcane armor feats(.
Sorry, for any weird typos, using phone.
There's also Combat Vigor, from the Healer's Handbook Player's Companion.
It also expands into other feats from that companion book using the Combat Vigor feat as a base starting point.