Question About Reach Weapons

[DungeonmasterCal]

So, let me get this straight. If you have a reach weapon you can't attack an adjacent opponent, but a monster with reach can, correct? I should know this, but it's not a good brain day. Depression has been bad and I haven't been able to satisfactorily find the answer in the rules.

Thanks in advance,

DMC

[Dark Midian]

Correct. Manufactured reach weapons cannot (Normally) hit adjacent creatures, but a big monster with reach can smack everything close to it and 10' away.

[DungeonmasterCal]

Ok. That's what my player and I were thinking was the correct answer, but I just wasn't focused today so I thought I'd get some back up. Thanks!

[Gisher]

I hope things get better soon, DungeonmasterCal.

[DungeonmasterCal]

Thanks, Gisher. I appreciate it. It'll pass in a day or three. Just a kind of downish day. They happen. :)

[Melkiador]

I prefer to think of it as natural reach vs weapon reach. A player can very easily access natural reach by using a spell like enlarge person. And the different reaches can even be combined into confusing combinations.

[DungeonmasterCal]

Yeah, my player and I got into a discussion about that very thing. He has the Mythic Ability "Titan's Rage" which essentially acts as an Enlarge Spell, so he was worried he might not be able to fight adjacent foes when he used it. So we decided "natural reach" was just that and you're able to fight adjacently. Using a reach weapon was a different animal together.

[PossibleCabbage]

I like to think of this as "your arms have joints, so you can touch your nose or anything that's up to the extent of your reach, whereas you cannot do the same with your poleaxe."

[lemeres]

Manufactured weapon: Blade on a stick. You only effectively hit when you hit with the blade. Hitting with the stick doesn't work out quite as well.

Natural Reach: The dragon decided he wants to step on you. This is just as easy if you are directly under him, or whether he has to reach his leg out a little.

Anyway, natural reach is better if you can do it without wasting actions. Reach weapons are great if you just want constant reach (mostly for getting AoOs when monsters approach, often at the start of the fight, and possibly before your turn).

[_Ozy_]

And then there's Natural Reach + Weapon Reach, when you want to command a large swath of the combat area.

[lemeres]

_Ozy_ wrote:

And then there's Natural Reach + Weapon Reach, when you want to command a large swath of the combat area.

while leaving a large doughnut that you can't attack in.

reach+reach is a combo that you use for a single, very particular purpose- zoning so that enemies suffer if they go after your squishier party members. you abandon your role as an effective attacker, since the 10 feet where you can't attack.

at medium size, reach weapons only have a 5 foot gap. you can cover that with a 5 foot step. but at large, the gap is too large and you have to spend a move action to attack something right next to you. while things like armor spikes may help for dealing withc cheeky casters trying to avoid AoOs, it is not good as your primary attsck- it does match up to your big, well enhanced two handed weapon.

so there are trade offs when you put on a reach weapon onto a creature with natural reach. that is why i usually advise going one or the other- both can make you a circle of pain 25 to 30 feet across.

[GinoA]

A primary natural attack is the best way to deal with the center of the donut. If you only have one, that single attack is still pretty effective.

I like a bite.

[Saldiven]

lemeres wrote:

_Ozy_ wrote:

And then there's Natural Reach + Weapon Reach, when you want to command a large swath of the combat area.

while leaving a large doughnut that you can't attack in.

reach+reach is a combo that you use for a single, very particular purpose- zoning so that enemies suffer if they go after your squishier party members. you abandon your role as an effective attacker, since the 10 feet where you can't attack.

at medium size, reach weapons only have a 5 foot gap. you can cover that with a 5 foot step. but at large, the gap is too large and you have to spend a move action to attack something right next to you. while things like armor spikes may help for dealing withc cheeky casters trying to avoid AoOs, it is not good as your primary attsck- it does match up to your big, well enhanced two handed weapon.

so there are trade offs when you put on a reach weapon onto a creature with natural reach. that is why i usually advise going one or the other- both can make you a circle of pain 25 to 30 feet across.

That's what Pushing Assault is for. (At least, when you get high enough level that iterative attacks matter.)

It's even better if you have a natural attack to use in conjunction with the reach weapon. Bite the target first, then swing with the reach weapon.

[lemeres]

GinoA wrote:

A primary natural attack is the best way to deal with the center of the donut. If you only have one, that single attack is still pretty effective.

I like a bite.

it is nicer for AoO's, but that still doesn't address the problem that you can't do a proper, full strength full attack on an enemy right next to you. armor spikes are light weapons, and natural attacks don't get iteratives.

unless you are running with a medium (which can get 4 full bab attacks with the right build, which could apply equally to weapons and natural attack; rather nice reach build actually, since they can get auto access to that exotic 18-20 reach weapon), you are going to see simple positional problems with your ability to directly attack.