Stopped paying attention to pathfinder for ~1 year, help me catch up!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Hello forum!

I feel out of the pathfinder loop for over a year. I'm getting back into it soonish, what sweet builds, feats, and spells have been released?

Is sacred geometry still the best feat?


Of the top of my head, there is a feat that gives 1 skill point per level from Villain Codex I believe, there is a most bloated and OP wizard archetype ever, the Pact Wizard from Haunted Heroes Handbook, a cool archery based archetype for bard, the Arrowsong Minstrel, and an archetype for inquisitor that replaces the domain with couple of oracle revelations, the Ravener Hunter from Blood of the Beasts. Horror Adventures came out with some new rules although wasn't interested so don't know. That about sums my knowledge for new stuff since I don't follow the releases very closely anymore.


Bloodline mutations are kinda new? They make it so you don't have to be a cross blooded sorc to Blast effectively.


Prior posters covered it well.

In the opposite vein, there are a number of sweet builds (and powerful items) that no longer work. Most of these changes are relatively recent.

Double-barreled guns can no longer be activated except on a single attack (so it does still work with Vital Strike). This renders most gunslinger builds pointless compared to archery.

Sacred Fist warpriest is no longer almost strictly superior to every other warpriest option; you don't get full BAB when flurrying, and you can't wear armor. It is actually now a fairly poor archetype, albeit still superior to being a monk.

Feinting builds (that weren't strong to begin with, but they've printed some decent feinting options recently with a Mesmerist archetype and a prestige class) and lying in general took a huge hit with the Mask of Stony Demeanor's nerf. +10 to lying, +5 to feint, formerly 500 GP increased to 8000 GP, reducing it to a vanity item.

Similarly the Vial of Efficacious Medicine (3/day Cure Light Wounds and double an alchemical item's effect), underpriced at 700 GP, is now 7000 GP; and the Staff of Necromancy (expend charges for free metamagic, incredibly powerful at higher levels) no longer has any useful abilities.

And powerful favored class bonuses such as +1/2 to the level of oracle revelations (reduced to +1/6 level) have been almost universally nerfed.


The Oracle nerf isn't that bad, IMO. There are a limited number of revaluations and taking Extra Revalation is no doubt most oracle's first choice.


MannyGoblin, to be clear the FCB increased the effective level of a revelation, it did not grant bonus revelations. So for example, if a revelation provided 4 AC + 1 AC per 3 oracle levels, you would get 5 AC at level 3 from selecting +1/2 level twice. At level 6, you'd have 7 AC.


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To put it simply.

1.Wizards are still the best at solving problems other classes were meant to solve.
2.Fighters still hit things hard, and do little else.
3.Monks still have to deal with Amulet of Mighty Fists if they want decent combat capability.
4.Rogues get Dex to Damage with elven curve blades, making them my go to dip for finesse if I want two handed, to forever abandon afterwards.
5.Dominating a living persons will is fine and dandy, but raising skeletons is full on evil.
6.Tielfings have a lot of options.
7.So do aasimar.
8.Monks are still stuck with AoMF.
9.Now there's space rules.

You didn't miss all that much.


Nothing has changed, really.


CWheezy wrote:
Is sacred geometry still the best feat?

The new Improved Sacred Geometry is even better, and as for Greater Sacred Geometry---wow!


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CWheezy wrote:

Hello forum!

Is sacred geometry still the best feat?

You know it!


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On the martial front:

Fighter:

Fighters have received what is effectively 'Unchained' improvements. They now have access to Advanced Weapon Training and Advanced Armour Training options through the Weapon Master's Handbook and Armour Master's Handbook. These features can be taken in exchange for extra weapon groups from Weapon Training and further improvements to Armour Training. They are incredibly powerful and allow fighters unique power-ups with their specializations. Also, hilariously, Bravery is now the Fighter's best class feature by merit of Armed Bravery, which makes Bravery's bonus apply to Will saves universally. Any archetype that swaps either Bravery or Weapon Training is now pretty much dead.

There exists a feat called Shield Brace that allows you to wield a polearm or spear weapon two-handed while utilizing a shield. This has increased the power of shields and specifically tower shields by a very hefty amount, and has ensured polearms continue to be the most powerful martial option for weapon. Fighters in particular use these options best of all, so this has been a very good year to be a fighter.

And continuing for fighters, there has been a build that has emerged from these options called Iron Caster. Through Barroom Brawler, a feat that has seen little use previously but is now the single most powerful feat in a fighter's arsenal, a fighter can become a half-caster by way of a limited number of Martial Flexibility uses per day. You mostly only need Barroom Brawler in conjunction with the Advanced Weapon Training option Abundant Tactics, which increases limited daily use feats by a number equal to your weapon training bonus. This lets you FLEX into Advanced Weapon Training: Item Mastery. The numerous Item Mastery feats allow you to cast a spell or multiple spells a day through your favoured weapon (if magical), including Fly, Dispel Magic, Dimension Door, Burning Hands, Lightning Bolt and Telekinesis. You also get Lesser Restoration, See Invisibility and Darkvision, and Vanish. If you also utilize Combat Stamina with fighters, you can FLEX into item mastery feats as a swift action, allowing for some seriously intense action economy power. Better yet, these feats utilize Constitution as their casting stat, and improve as your base Fortitude save bonus increases, which for a fighter is a Good save. If these all don't sound incredible, maybe I haven't mentioned that you have Martial Flexibility, which means you can switch into combat feats on the fly as well. Get a pair of Gloves of Dueling, and you are golden.

There was a weapon enhancement released called Training, which grants the use of a combat feat that you meet the prerequisites to use, and only costs a +1 enhancement bonus. It cannot be used to meet prerequisites, but this is really powerful as a way to round out feat trees or snag feats you don't want to take as part of your normal feat-line. Combined with the above Iron Caster stuff, you can utilize the Warrior Spirit advanced weapon training option to grant your weapon either an enhancement bonus equal to your weapon training or purchase special qualities instead. This works much like a magus' arcane pool, though there isn't a limited list to choose from but is a standard action. This means you have a second pool of feats you could utilize using Warrior Spirit and any special weapon quality you need in the moment.

In addition to all this, Advanced Weapon Training and Advanced Armour Training are getting content support from books released after the handbooks and outside of the handbook line, indicating that Paizo are clearly intending to support these options further.

Core/Unchained Rogue:
Rogue got an archetype called Eldritch Scoundrel. This archetype, while reducing the amount of sneak attack they receive as well as rogue talents, removing armour proficiency and some rogue features, grants the rogue magus spell-casting drawing from the wizard/sorcerer spell list. This archetype hasn't really taken off as much as it should, because it is genuinely pretty powerful, and combined with Unchained Rogue is really quite strong. The fact that you have 6th level wizard spells while being a rogue is nothing to scoff at, particularly when you remember that sneak attack applies to attacks and not weapon attacks. In addition, sneak attacks being reduced can be resolved with a feat called Accomplished Sneak Attacker, which increases sneak attack up to half your character level (normally useless for rogues due to them naturally getting that much sneak attack, but great for Eldritch Scoundrel. Also Slayer, FYI). Sense Vitals is also one method to increase sneak attack damage, which the Eldritch Scoundrel can do themselves through spells. To go even further with this very loaded archetype, you can take ninja talents in place of rogue talents, and power them with spell slots instead of ki. You only get a rogue talent every four levels, starting at fourth, but this is still really powerful given the potency of ninja talents. However, Unchained Rogue in PFS cannot select this archetype, since it got knee-jerk banned pretty much as soon as it was released (probably due to utilising ninja talents rather than relative power, which seems like a weird gripe that the PFS devs have). Nothing in normal play prevents you from taking it however. Eldritch Scoundrel does NOT remove any feature specific to Unchained Rogue (Finesse Training, Debilitating Injury, Rogue's Edge)

Rogue also got the Phantom Thief, which I'm pretty sure is allowed for PFS Unchained Rogues. It removes Sneak Attack, Unchained Rogue's Debilitating Strike and Rogue Edge to give you Rogue Edge powers early, a ton of skill powers, and the ability to choose combat feats, skill focus or the Minor/Major Magic rogue talent an unlimited number of times using Rogue Talents. This makes Phantom Thiefs the strongest mundane* skill monkey, and their unlimited combat feat choices allow for them to fill a lot of niches outside of just sneak attack. Phantom Thief does not remove Finesse Training for Unchained Rogue.

Recently, as in the last month or so, there was released a feat (the name of which alludes me but it was in the Monster Hunter's Handbook) that allows you to deal precision damage and crit creatures normally immune to these effects (like, you have a 25% to do it but better than nothing), and reduce Fortification effects by 25%.

Sniping is now reasonably possible, if still kind of weak. Expert Sniper is a feat that reduces the penalty by -10, and the Rogue Edge 5th level bonus reduces it by another -10. Rogues can also choose Dampen Presence using rogue talents (from Magic Tactics Toolbox), and not need to meet the Skill Focus (Stealth) feat prerequisite for it or any feat that uses Dampen Presence as a prerequisite. This enables sniping to be a bit easier nowadays. Frankly, I think Dampen Presence as a rogue talent is pretty significant for every rogue, since that ensures they can sneak at all under certain circumstances and enables stealth against many enemies that would have otherwise invalidated the rogue through blindsight (like dragons)

Rapid Perception allows for Rogues to somewhat mitigate invisibility being the most powerful stealth option.

Spell Storing lets you store spells up to 2nd level in yourself. Ew.

Paladns:
Paladins now get an archetype that grants them swashbuckler powers. It's call the Virtuous Bravo, and grants the swashbuckler's Weapon Finesse and Nimble, but removes the deflection bonus from smite and mercies. It also removes paladin spellcasting for deeds. This archetype makes Paladins stronger at being a swashbuckler than the Swashbuckler. Power creep?

Gray Paladins are the long awaited 'non-lawful good paladin' archetype, but they suffer from extremely weakened class features. This archetype is not really meant to fill that above niche. What they are supposed to be are paladin spies who perform their work within places paladins would normally be unable to work in because paladins basically have an aura that screams 'I AM A GOOD PERSON, HERE TO SMITE EVIL'. Instead, Gray Paladins have a much, much weaker aura due to purposely disconnecting themselves to their purity, but by doing so can fool detection and scrying. They can also be one step away from Lawful good in alignment, so Neutral Good and Lawful Neutral. They can also smite anyone who is nongood by spending two uses of the feature. There is the stipulation that the paladin needs to believe that they are an opponent of good, so YAY MORALLY CONFLICTED PALADIN TIME! IF they commit an evil act, they still lose their paladin powers.

Tortured Crusader is the most edgy of all paladins. You stop being able to help others, but you are no longer reliant on Charisma, and use Wisdom as your casting stat. All the features make it so that you are permanently in a state of despair and basically you're convinced you're going to die for what you do in a horrible, horrible way. You lose divine grace and spellcasting bonus to smite, but you get a flat bonus on smite. You also cannot use lay on hands on anyone but yourself, but you can convert two uses into more smite evils. Your auras also do not benefit allies. You can, however, apply contingency lay on hands/mercies to take effect under a specific trigger, which is really good and thematic.

Speaking of dramatic stuff from paladins, Matyr turns you into a bard. You bleed profusely but replicate the effects of bardic performances. You lose a lot of paladin stuff (smite evil, divine grace), but your auras become stronger, making you much more of a supporter than the typical paladin frontliner. Combined with a Life Oracle dip, this can be really powerful.

Magus:
Magus gained the Mindblade archetype, which is essentially Soulknives of yore. Summon psychic blades to fight with. The mindblade is unique in that they can eventually spell combat with a two-handed weapon, and you get psychic spellcasting instead of normal arcane prepared spellcasting, utilising the bard spell slot system instead of your normal one, since you're now a spontaneous caster.

They also got Eldrtich Archer, which lets you spell combat and spellstrike with ranged weapons. It is simply a direct convert of the class into ranged stuff. HOWEVER, it also grants you a free masterwork ranged weapon as an arcane-bonded object (like a wizards, minus the free spell cast per day). This means you can immediately cash this in for a free revolver. Have fun! (you're not proficient, but that's fairly easy to fix, and taking a level dip into Spellslinger wizard can nab you a lot of powerful features along with proficiency, plus an additional gun)

Unchained Monk:
You can now take an archetype called Scaled Fist, a dragon monk essentially, in order to use Charisma instead of Wisdom with your class features. This is obviously not as powerful as regular monk but it does give you early access to some strong feats to make up for it, and can allow for monks to be better at being a face. In general, this archetype also makes it easier to go into Dragon Disciple from sorcerer if you wanted a martial dip before doing so, since you get Charisma to your AC and don't have to worry about armour as much, ignoring the obvious thematic combination.

Invested Regent, released about a month ago, is essentially the Quiggong Monk but for Unchained. While you are more MAD due to having a Charisma dependency, this is still really potent an archetype mostly due to only replacing bonus feats, and the powers generally being fairly good.

General Stuff:
Potion Glutton got nerfed. No longer works with extracts.

Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier and Quick-runner Shirts are now useless. The jingasa is now a deflection bonus and it's crit negation is once EVER per jingasa, and the shirt allows for an extra move action, but your turn ends immediately after using the move action.

There is now a feat that allows you to use Weapon Finesse and Slashing Grace, along with any swashbuckler+duelist features, with a glaive. Bladed Brush, which is a Shelyn specific feat.

Heritor Knight, a prestige class for being really into Iomedae, lets you use Vital Strike on any standard action attack with a long sword. Let that sink in as you look at Deadly Stroke. It also increases weapon training, so it's great as a prestige class for any fighter looking to be particularly righteous and enjoy bowl cuts.

There are now stuff for harvesting monster parts for power ups. I haven't seen this content properly yet and it is the same source book that the feat that enables you to sneak attack immune creatures comes from. So it's relative power isn't quite easy to determine. But I hear it's mechanically sound if lacking thematic variety. Which, for any content not from the core line, I'm pretty happy to hear regardless of the lack of specific flavour and broad harvesting rules


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Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier and Quick-runner Shirts are now useless. The jingasa is now a deflection bonus and it's crit negation is once EVER per jingasa, and the shirt allows for an extra move action, but your turn ends immediately after using the move action.

These two bear repeating. They totally f***ed-up here. Jingasa needed an increase in price (which was supposedly a problem for printed scenarios and stuff), while shirt needed that "24h till it starts working" rider so there's no "I change my shirt between the combats" scenario, and they were ok. Now they're not worth paper they're printed on.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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A banner year for awesome clarifications:

Silver Crusade

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James Risner wrote:

A banner year for awesome clarifications:


Don't forget haste!


After nearly two years, 1479 posts, one thread necromancy, and an FAQ that supposedly settled the debate, people finally stopped arguing over the DC to jump a 10' pit.


CWheezy wrote:

Hello forum!

I feel out of the pathfinder loop for over a year. I'm getting back into it soonish, what sweet builds, feats, and spells have been released?

Is sacred geometry still the best feat?

There's now Toughness, but for skill points. (The feat is Cunning.)

You can now play a full-BAB 6/9 caster. (Occultist with the warrior panoply.) There's also a 6/9 caster that gives full casters a run for their money. (Silksworn Occultist. Takes a bit to get rolling, but you get more spells known than a Sorcerer, DC increases, and extra spell slots.)

Casters can buy back casting levels lost to caster PrCs with feats. (Prestigious Caster. Has a feat tax, but still nice.)

Swarm Monger is awesome, and lets you (sorta) have a swarm companion.

There are now rules to kill them with kindness. (Kindness phantom is really cool, and a great team player.)

And that's just since October!


John Mechalas wrote:
After nearly two years, 1479 posts, one thread necromancy, and an FAQ that supposedly settled the debate, people finally stopped arguing over the DC to jump a 10' pit.

KC brought it back up again briefly! But then people started to take it seriously again :U


Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
KC brought it back up again briefly! But then people started to take it seriously again :U

That was the thread necromancy I referred to. :)


Oooooooooh, okay. My bad, I thought there were more. Seems like the sort of thread to have that happen every so often. Beyond known tricksters and their antics.


QuidEst wrote:


There's now Toughness, but for skill points. (The feat is Cunning.)

this seems like a different version of open minded which was published years earlier...


And is third party.


Still no simulacrum rewrite? Oh well, maybe in 2XXX


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Horror Adventures includes the Dread Lord template, which is perfect for representing some of the mechanics of the Ravenloft. Dread Lords also make really neat End-Of-Campaign Boss fodder.
Horror Adventures also includes expanded states of Fear, new rules for Sanity Loss, various nasty curses, afflictions, and Corruptions, lots of evil or somewhat archetypes, and the first Spellbook using Divine Spellcasting archetype for Pathfinder (as far as I know).

In case you missed Ultimate Intrigue as well... you can now play Batman, and eventually have an unlimited supply of +1 Flaming Burst Shuriken. The Vigilante is probably the class with the greatest number of Archetypes ever published in a single book as themselves. Also Wrist-Mounted Crossbows that share proficiency with Hand Crossbows.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
And is third party.

As is the only version of a cunning feat I could find. my google-fu may have been weak though.

Edit: This is the only version of the cunning feat I could find, by Flaming Crab Games, published 2014, according to the credits.


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I've added about 250 aliases.

Grand Lodge

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Air0r wrote:
Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
And is third party.
As is the only version of a cunning feat I could find. my google-fu may have been weak though.

Villian Codex.

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