I would not give them bonuses that invalidate other feats or abilities, but for flavoring I figure why not. If you killed someone with a spear, I'd consider letting you impale the body and go after another.
You can always follow the old adage.
Anything at a -4.
This is possibly a good place to implement Ryan Stoughton's "Raising the Stakes" (available in pdf form here).
Specifically the example given of " Player: “I attack the goblin, raise you a decapitation frightening his buddies against me falling prone".
Seems like if you just standardized this to a standard wager both the player and GM are generally amenable to, you could have a signature move that doesn't break anything.
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I think saying yes is a skill GMs should learn. Any idiot can say no (& disengage the player a bit), saying yes and working out how to make it happen is much better.
If the players are OK with 2 that's the easiest obviously. 4 is probably how I'd do it on the spur of the moment. 5 or "Raising the Stakes" looks like the best long-term option.
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First thing you should do is to figure out if the signature move is more flavor or game mechanics. If you can refluff a standard game mechanic to fit the players signature move than just do that. In the case of the sunder/disarm I am not even sure why you would want to combine them. Sunder can destroy an item so what would be the point of disarming and sundering at the same time? You usually use disarm to take an item away form a person without damaging it. I would have no problem allowing a player who destroys an item to knock the fragments of the item from the person’s hand.
The second thing you should do is to see if there is an existing feat or other game mechanic that does something similar. Disarming Strike and Sundering Strike both trigger their respective maneuvers on a critical hit with a melee attack. Considering both of the maneuvers are melee attacks you should be able to trigger one from the other. While the feats specify that only one can be active at a time it does not say that you cannot use a regular disarm and trigger a Sundering Strike if you critical on the disarm.
If neither of these work than I would create a custom feat for the player. More than likely there should be some prerequisites to the feat. By making the character spend the feat you have justification for not allowing other to do the maneuver. In all fairness if you give a character an ability for free others, should also be able to do it as well.
I reflavor things all the time so they fit the characters. The same spell could look different when casted by different characters. I.e. my Witch gets Disintegrate because of her Time Patron. I can flavor it as an object or person quickly taking damage because of accelerated aging until they crumble to dust. A cleric with Destruction domain could cast the same spell looking like the object or the creature is somewhat imploding. Same spell, different visual.
About custom signature stuff, I allow it in very few cases and I handle it with care.
This player wanted a custom spell that allowed him to summon a rain of blades from an extradimensional space.
OK, we can work it.
He wanted to physically own the blades, even if I had stated that he was not gaining any benefit from magic or masterwork enhancements and that they'd deal a damage not related to the weapon type.
OK, your WBL will probably be affected but if you're OK with it I can allow it.
He wanted to loot ALL the blades magic or not that appeared on the adventure and wanted the other players to be OK with it and let him loot them IN ADDITION of his normal loot. He was adamant about that.
Sorry, that's not going to happen. No custom spell for you.
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He wanted to loot ALL the blades magic or not that appeared on the adventure and wanted the other players to be OK with it and let him loot them IN ADDITION of his normal loot. He was adamant about that.
Sorry, that's not going to happen. No custom spell for you.
...And Fire Wizard (tries to) strike again!!!
Was your player Gilgamesh? lol xD
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As long as it's home brew, much of this can also be balanced by simply saying, sure I logically see how a character can do a sunder+disarm as one action, but since you're getting 2 for 1, deal you take both rolls at a -4 since you're not focusing on doing either. Also the players have to understand you've now changed the rules, since the bad guys play by those same rules they can now attempt to sunder & Disarm your weapons!
As for trapping the weapon then stabbing at the exposed arm, I feel that mechanic is already in play Improved/Two-Weapon Fighting + Improved/Two-Weapon Feint. "HOW" you are creating the denied dex bonus from the feint is all flavor, but that's almost exactly how you achieve that result, First attack is a Feint, if successful the exposed arm/limb is right there ready to stab repeatedly while not able to move. If the player wanted to say they should be able to do it without having to make a bluff check. then you could propose a similar chain (Improved TWF + 2 'Pinning Strike' feats) that uses D20+BAB as a bonus vs target's Touch AC symbolizing the combat abilities to manage the maneuver and use skill to defeat the opponent. Touch because a more nimble dexterous opponent would be more able to counter that type of attack. and straight BAB because it's about skill, not strength or weapon style. (and to help keep it balanced since you are only targeting touch)
Your Inquisitor would work similar to what is above, and might LOVE using intimidate to scare someone into moving where they wanted them to causing the exposed arm.
The Sorcerer, could take a "Shaped Spell" Feat that allows them to adjust spells to (pre approved) shapes, so maybe instead of a 20' Radius Fireball your Bruce Wayne Sorcerer has a 22.5' Radius (45 Diameter instead of 40') and a Bat Shape in the middle that doesn't get hit, maybe something like:
#=Fireball
O=No Fireball
OOOOOOOOOOO
OOOO###OOOO
OOO#####OOO
OO#######OO
O##O#O#O##O
O#OOOOOOO#O
O##O###O##O
OO#######OO
OOO#####OOO
OOOO###OOOO
OOOOOOOOOOO
So for a feat your fireball as an example would get a larger radius, some empty space in the middle, and actually hit 5 more squares than a normal 20' Radius fireball would hit.
The disarm/sunder can already be done with the existing rules, but is pretty feat intensive. If a character has both improved disarm, improved sunder and disarming strike. This also requires combat expertise and power attack for a total of 5 feats. You make a sunder attempt and roll a critical hit, if you do not sunder the item you disarm the item if your conformation roll exceeds your opponents CMD. You still get to roll damage for the item so you could destroy the item in addition to disarming it.
The inquisitor could simply use a hammer with the Reliquary property to cast Brand or Greater Brand.
You already have a solution to the two handed fighter signature move.
For the Sorcerer I would simply create a metamagic feat that allows him to reshape spells without changing the total area. Probably take a spell slot of one level higher than the spells actual level.
If something can be done using the existing rules, that is probably the best way to handle it. The more changes you make the more complicated things get and the more difficult it is to maintain balance and control of the game. Once you start giving the character extra abilities it can quickly spiral out of control. For example if you allow a player to get the disarm/sunder than what happens when they take Tripping Strike. You now have a character who can disarm, sunder and trip an opponent with a single attack. Also when you start giving characters special abilities they will ask for more.
Every one of your examples can be achieved without adding or changing any existing mechanics. Whenever the PC scores a critical hit (or rolls a natural 20 on a CMB check), simply describe the hit in the desired manner to illustrate the "signature move". Tying it to critical hits also serves to make the "signature move" more dynamic and special since it doesn't happen on every single hit.
It only works on one opponent at a time, but consider Impaling Critical and its Improved variant.
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The response seems that this should be used with caution...? Or in the spur of the moment. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, so players can expect to happen against them. Fair enough.
Free signature moves seems to be something most people are against. I guess it's pretty firmly in houserule territory anyways.
Raising the Stakes looks like an interesting idea. I'll see if my group likes the concept.
I haven't gotten many responses on the 2-3 person impale chain. For this, a spearman would skewer 2 or 3 enemies in line with one stab, perhaps with some of them still alive. And leaving them stuck. Would this just be a custom feat situation? Or is there a feat or way for people to do this normally? Should it not be an option entirely? Or should it be just have a minor circumstantial allowance, a la MageHunter's linear Cleaving Finish idea.
Would it be reasonable to allow characters to have a single custom move (without spending a feat) if they spend money/time researching it, and make a BAB check, like how a prepared arcane caster might research a spell? Or would this lend itself to abuse?
Problem with your spear attack (aside from just the mechanics and forces required to shove a spear that far through a person and actually hit the person behind him with enough force to actually have a chance of also impaling the second) you still have the mechanics of combat spacing and weapon reach. If people in combat are all standing 5 feet apart, your normal spear just isn't long enough, if you are using a long spear, you can't attack the person adjacent to you, and the person 15' away is too far for the spear to reach.
IF you really wanted to allow it, I would say a feat "call it rushing impale" Where when using a long spear as part of a charge (or in conjunction with a 5' step) A confirmed Critical hit on the first target will impale that target and allow an attack roll the target opposite the player as well. So the Attacker would either 'continue' their charge 5' further so they are adjacent to the first target attacked, and then be able to hit the second with a subsequent attack roll, or would have to 5' step into the attack to become adjacent to the first target so they can attack the second.
But honestly you open up a whole can of worms here as to what happens with a still living creature impaled on a spear. I really think this is one that should just be done for flavor when someone has multiple attacks and kills/KO's an opponent and proceeds to attack a second, you say the first was skewered on the spear and then the player shifts the spear to the next target and attacks. The first target flailing madly but ultimately passes out/dies from the pain and trauma of being forced around on the spear through it's middle. Then withdrawing the spear from the body is the final action of that round, leaving the player still able to take AoO's appropriately since this was a flavor ruling.
The impale chain I would just call it a cleave or greater cleave
I like the idea of having a signature move it simply doesn't suit pathfinder very well mechanically. Instead of implementing rules for doing so I encourage players to get more RP and description into combat
I use a combination of #2 (refluff) first, as I try to follow the rules to create a living, reacting, and consistent world.
Then, keeping #2 in mind, but also rule 0, I listen to what my players want, what they suggest. if they come up with an idea? I resort to #4 (let it happen at a penalty.) I don't just do this for signature moves, let's say a house is on fire. if the wizard only has ray of frost I'll ask for a spellcraft check to turn the normally only good for combat spell into a 15 foot cone fire extinguisher.
Then, keeping #4 in mind, if a suggestion starts getting used a lot, I'll offer a new spell, feat, or ability, that usually has to be paid for in some way. Regular spell research costs, or training under a more skilled character, or renting out a dojo for a while, or asking the church to allow the character to have solitary confinement for prayer. That kind of thing.
For the sunder/disarm as an example. I'd limit the ability only to the weapon type the player was using and require he have weapon focus and improved disarm and improved sunder. Then after paying some kind of training fee he could take the new feat "Weapon Removal" as a bonus feat. if he didn't want to pay the fee, he'd have to take it as a regular feat when he next earned a feat. And I'd probably make weapon removal have the same penalties as twf except in reverse. So -6/-6 if using a light weapon, -4/-4 for a one handed, -2/-2 for a two handed weapon.
I see three options:
- You get a malus to your attack relative to the difficulty of the move itself (and the effects it has)
- That happens whenever you confirm a critical strike
- You use a Hero point to make it happen