So I had the sudden desire to build a character that carries two shields and just bashes everybody with them. I figured TWF ranger would be best for this, and I'm pretty sure I know how to build him, but I had a couple of questions.
If I have Imp Shield Bash, do I get the AC from both shields or only 1?
Say I want a couple of spiked heavy shields, how does the cost work to make them +2 for the purposes of AC and attacking?
So I had the sudden desire to build a character that carries two shields and just bashes everybody with them. I figured TWF ranger would be best for this, and I'm pretty sure I know how to build him, but I had a couple of questions.
If I have Imp Shield Bash, do I get the AC from both shields or only 1?
Only the higher bonus. Bonuses of the same type (in this case "shield" bonus) do not stack.
Quote:
Say I want a couple of spiked heavy shields, how does the cost work to make them +2 for the purposes of AC and attacking?
Normally you would enchant them the same way you would enchant a weapon. In other words making them +2 would cost an additional 300 gp (masterwork weapon cost) + 8000 gp (+2 weapon cost). Note that this doesn't affect the AC bonus. You have to enchant the AC bonus separately, for an additional 4000 gp (+2 enhancement bonus to AC). However you only have to pay the masterwork cost once (but it needs to be the higher cost). Total cost is 12,330 gp for a +2 weapon/+2 AC spiked heavy steel shield (each).
However as a ranger you may want to take the weapon and shield combat style from the Advanced Player's Guide. Despite the name of the style you can use it with two shields. At sixth level you can take the Shield Master feat as your bonus combat style feat. It makes the AC enhancement bonus on your shields count as a weapon enhancement bonus as well. It also removes any penalties for TWF on attacks made with a shield. So you would just make do with non-magical weapons until 6th level. At that point the total cost is 4,180 gp for a +2 weapon/+2 AC spiked heavy steel shield (each).
There is only one shield magic item slot, so you can only magically benefit from one shield enchanted as a shield. But you could treat the second shield purely as a weapon, and it would work fine.
If I have Imp Shield Bash, do I get the AC from both shields or only 1... how does the cost work to make them +2 for the purposes of AC and attacking?
Shield Bonuses to AC do not Stack. You only get 1 because you only get 1. If you have Improved Shield Bash, you keep the 1 even if you Bash with it.
The Cost is the Cost. 4000gp for a +2 Shield Enhancement Bonus or its equivalent, 8000gp for a +2 Weapon Enhancement Bonus or its equivalent. The Enhancement Bonus upon the shield to increase your AC will only work on 1 of your shields, again, because Shield Bonuses to AC don't stack.
You can enchant shields as Weapons, no problem there. That works just like enchanting any other weapon. Those bonuses apply separately to each weapon like normal.
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Say I want a couple of spiked heavy shields,
Heavy Shields are One Handed Weapons. Fighting with 2 One Handed Weapons will impose a -4 on your Attack Roll if you take the 2 Weapon Fighting Feat. I strongly recommend you make one of your Shields a Light Shield, reducing the Attack Penalty on both to -2, again, once you have taken 2 Weapon Fighting.
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
So I had the sudden desire to build a character that carries two shields and just bashes everybody with them. I figured TWF ranger would be best for this, and I'm pretty sure I know how to build him, but I had a couple of questions.
I'm not so fond of TWF Ranger for this. I mean, sure, take 2 Weapon Fighting, but make your level 2 Bonus Feat Shield Slam, not TWF. It seems to me that Shield Slam is the only reason to TWF with 2 shields, so you might as well get Shield Slamming as soon as possible.
Also, consider making your Light Shield a Quickdraw, Throwing Shield.
I have a lot of ideas on this topic. I have put together some shield-bashing builds that I think are pretty awesome if you want to see them.
I'm down for any PFS legal, level 12 builds you want to share. I'd appreciate including traits, what feats to take at each level, and what equipment to buy. I'm assuming normal WBL of 96k at level 12, even though my only level 12 character actually had more like 110k.
The only reason I want to take a level in Paladin is that I like the Swift Girding Spell. Full Plate is nice, but it takes several Rounds to put on, and you can't sleep in it. Mithral Full Plate + Endurance is possible, but Mithral Full Plate is prohibitively expensive. If you ever see a PFS character with MFP, I bet your find that that is a GM's character build with GM credit and not with real advdenturing. Anyway, the Swift Girding Spell lets you don the Armor as a Standard Action. A Wand of Swift Girding only costs 2 Prestige Points.
I like Freebooter's Bane better than Ranger's regular Favored Enemy. It's very versatile, and it gives a bonus to the whole party, not just you.
3P1R1Fighter1: Lore Warden, Weapon Focus Earthbreaker, Thunder and Fang, BAB+3
Thunder and Fang lets you use an Earthbreaker in 1 hand as a one handed weapon and a Klar in the other as a light weapon. Further, you get to keep your Shield Bonus to AC when you Bash with your Klar even though you haven't taken Improved Shield Bash.
Acquire a Wand of Lead Blades. It won't affect the Klar, but the Earthbreaker will do 3d6 instead of 2d6.
I like the idea of making the Klar Cold Iron or adamantine, but the Earthbreaker for this character MUST be Silver. Did you catch his name? Do you remember the Beatles' Song? "Bang Bang! Maxwell's Silver Hammer came down on her head. Bang, Bang! Maxwell's Silver Hammer came down, now she's dead...."
4P1R2F1: Shield Slam, Ability +1, BAB+4
Free Bull Rush with every Shield Bash.
5P1R2F1Inquisitor1: Judgement, Stern Gaze, Domain, Monster Lore, Spells, Power Attack
I could probably do this with just the Paladin, too, but now the character is clergy. Father MacKenzie is also a character in a Beatles' Song. He murdered Eleanor Riggby. "Ahhhh, look at all the lonely people..."
Now all your Allies get Attacks of Opportunity whenever you Bull Rush someone, and you do that with every Shield Bash.
8P1R2F2I3: Solo Tactics, Paired Opportunist BAB+7
Paired Opportunist gives you and Attack of Opportunity whenever your allies get one. Paired Opportunist is a Teamwork Feat, and you normally couldn't use it unless your Allies had it, too, but Solo Tactics lets you use any and all your Teamwork Feats as if your Allies them, too.
9P1R2F3I3: Combat Reflexes, +2 CMB & CMD
10P1R2F4I3: Harder they Fall
Bull Rushing has a size limit. Harder they Fall lets you get around that.
11P1R2F5I3: Coordinated Maneuvers, Weapon Training +1
Slayer do this amazingly well. Twf and improved shield bash at level 1 as a human, Lvl 6 shield master, Fcb to extra talents, itwf at level 6 or seven. And at level 10 opportunist.
The every thing else is up to you. I would consider iron will and two families feats to get a mauler familiar as a flanking buddy. Accomplished sneak attacker, double slice, two weapon rend are all contenders.
Stats
Str16+2, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 7
This is a very good dpr build. That can still locate and disarm traps.. Having a heavy shield and a light shield will minute twf penalties.
Hmmm, I might do a sword and board slayer. I'm leaning more towards sword and board now rather than two boards. Maybe a longsword and a light shield?
Something like this to start with:
Shieldy McShieldface
Human (Ulfen) slayer 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 53)
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +5
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 13 (1d10+3)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +1
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee light shield bash +3 (1d3+2) or
longsword +3 (1d8+4/19-20)
Special Attacks studied target +1 (1st, move action)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 7
Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 17
Feats Improved Shield Bash, Two-weapon Fighting
Skills Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (local) +4, Knowledge (nature) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Perception +5, Sense Motive +5, Stealth +3
Languages Common, Skald
SQ track +1
Other Gear chain shirt, light steel shield, longsword, 26 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Improved Shield Bash You still get your shield bonus while using Shield Bash.
Studied Target +1 (move action, 1 at a time) (Ex) Study foe as a Move action, gain +1 to att/dam & some skills vs. them.
Track +1 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
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Then switch over to dual shields once all the shield feats come online. The worst part of this build is going to be the 40k for a +4/+4 Str/Dex belt.
I like heavy shild+kukri the best. Light shield+scimitar is my second choice. The reason is you want improved crit and bashing finish by level 10.
Power attack and quick draw actually combo well on the kukri build. Because you can charge in two hand power attack with the shild then next round draw the kukri for a full attack. The build is accurate enough that against a lot of enemies you will power attack and twf.
How's this for a level 12 build? I think it has everything I need other than Greater Two Weapon Fighting, although at that point Two Weapon Rend is probably the better feat:
Shieldy 12
Human slayer 12 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 53)
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +19
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 31, touch 17, flat-footed 26 (+7 armor, +2 deflection, +5 Dex, +2 natural, +5 shield)
hp 112 (12d10+36)
Fort +12, Ref +15, Will +8
Defensive Abilities evasion
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +2 heavy shield bash +21/+16/+11 (1d6+20/19-20) or
+2 heavy shield bash +21/+16/+11 (1d6+20/19-20)
Special Attacks sneak attack +4d6, studied target +3 (3rd, swift action)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 24, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 7
Base Atk +12; CMB +18; CMD 36
Feats Bashing Finish[APG], Double Slice, Improved Critical (shield, heavy), Improved Shield Bash, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Shield Focus, Shield Master, Shield Slam, Two-weapon Fighting, Two-weapon Rend, Weapon Focus (shield, heavy)
Traits indomitable faith
Skills Acrobatics +19, Bluff +1, Disguise +1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +18, Knowledge (local) +18, Perception +19, Sense Motive +19, Stealth +22, Survival +16
Languages Common
SQ combat style (weapon and shield[APG]), slayer talents (combat trick, evasion[UC], ranger combat style[ACG], ranger combat style[ACG], ranger combat style[ACG], weapon training), stalker, swift tracker, track +6
Other Gear +2 mithral kikko armor[UC], +2 reinforcing shield boss shield spikes heavy steel shield, +2 reinforcing shield boss shield spikes heavy steel shield, amulet of natural armor +2, belt of physical might +4 (Str, Dex), cloak of resistance +2, ring of protection +2, 19,330 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bashing Finish Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon, you can shield bash the same target as a free action.
Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
Improved Shield Bash You still get your shield bonus while using Shield Bash.
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shield Master No off-hand penalties for shield bashes, add a shield's enhancement bonus to attack rolls.
Shield Slam Shield Bash attack gives a free bull rush on a hit.
Sneak Attack +4d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Stalker (Ex) Studied target bonus applies to Disguise, Intimidate, and Stealth as well.
Studied Target +3 (swift action, 3 at a time) (Ex) Study foe as a Swift action, gain +3 to att/dam & some skills vs. them.
Swift Tracker (Ex) Tracking penalties when moving at normal speed or faster are reduced.
Track +6 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Two-Weapon Rend Deal extra 1d10+10 if you hit a foe with both main and off hand weapons.
Edit: That's a great idea, Avoron. I think I'll do that until the double shield goodness comes online.
Edit: Level 12 I'm flipping back and forth between Gr TWF and Imp Critical. I don't really see the point of expanding the threat range to 19-20, but that 3rd offhand attack probably won't have a very good chance to land either.
Edit #2: Also don't know what to take as second trait, as I confirmed I do not own Inner Sea Gods and another book is not in the budget right now.
Shield Focus is nice, but Shield Slam is nicer. I think you should get that at level 2.
Or else, not at all. You are taking Shield Slam, but you haven't made room for Greater Bull Rush. With Greater Bull Rush, you are handing out Attacks of Opportunity. And with Paired Opportunist, you get them yourself.
To make room in your build for IBR, GBR, and PO, I'd remove Improved 2 Weapon and Greater 2 Weapon, and 2 Weapon Rend. All are nice, but not as nice as cranking out AoOs and battlefield control. Besides, what is the point of wielding 2 shields if not to maximize the Shield Slam?
If a 3 level dip in Inquisitor to make good on Paired Opportunist is too much, how about a 1 level dip in Cavalier? It's not quite as good, but it gets the job done for cheaper.
By the way, you might get some static from GMs playing my build as is. Some people say that you wouldn't get your bonuses from Improved Bull Rush, GBR, and Lore Warden with Bull Rushing via Shield Slam. As I write, I am not so sure about Lore Warden, but I am quite sure about IBR & GBR. And even if the PFS GM insists on breaking the rules and denying you your penalty, it will still be worth it to give out and and wrack up attacks of Oppotunity via Shield Slam, GBR, and Paired Opportunist.
@Grandlounge That's what I was thinking. I will do that.
@Scott I'm not really interested in multi-classing. I don't need to squeeze every ounce of juice out of this build. I'm looking at straight slayer for 12 levels. I could take all the bull rush feats, but I don't have Combat Reflexes (or the space for it) so I'd only get 1 AoO per round anyway.
Ok, there's the updated progression chart. I've got my level 12 slayer talent open and can still take Combat Trick for another feat. With dropping Shield Focus and Gr TWF, I made room to slot Combat Reflexes in, so Improved Bull Rush may be called for at 12.
So I have 2 other ideas for features to work into your build. I have no idea how you fit them in, but I wanted to put them out there.
1)Throwing Shield. Make your Light Shield a Quickdraw, Throwing Shield. Take Exotic Weapon Throwing Shield, Quick Draw, and acquire a Blinkback Belt. You can throw a Throwing Shield as a Free Action. The Belt teleports the shield back to itself instantly after the attack is resolved, and then you can re-draw it as a Free Action.
Theoretically, this would mean infinite attacks, since these are all Free Actions, but the Core Rulebook specifically empowers the GM to put "reasonable limits" on the number of Free Actions you can take in a turn. But you should be able to do something like make a Full Attack with your Shields and then get in a Throw, and still enjoy your Shield bonus to AC. Or, if you take Improved Snapshot, you can make Attacks of Opportunity to anyone who exits a Square within 10' of you. Or you could use the Shield to Trip (it has the Tripping Quality), and use the Throwing Shield to then take you AoO via Greater Trip.
2)Hamatula Strike. If you hit someone with your Piercing Weapon, such as a Spiked Shield, you also get a instant Grapple Check. If you are wearing Armor Spikes, you do Damage with every Grapple. I was thinking it might be cool to work in a Shield Slam Feature and a Hamatula Strike Feature. You hit, you skewer, you Bull Rush, you get an AoO, which is another skewer followed by another Slam, which triggers more AoOs until your Combat Reflexes runs out. And when it does you Throw your shield as a Parthian Shot!
@Scott I'm not really interested in multi-classing. I don't need to squeeze every ounce of juice out of this build. I'm looking at straight slayer for 12 levels. I could take all the bull rush feats, but I don't have Combat Reflexes (or the space for it) so I'd only get 1 AoO per round anyway.
Very cool, totally your character, not mine. I hope you found my advice interesting and some of it useful.
The throwing shield is a good idea, but I'm not going to be using a light shield. Both of my shields will be +3 spiked heavy metal shields.
Also, number of attacks is limited by BAB, not number of actions. You can take infinite free actions, but if your BAB is only +4, you only get 1 attack without TWF.
The throwing shield is a good idea, but I'm not going to be using a light shield. Both of my shields will be +3 spiked heavy metal shields.
Ah, with the Shield Master Feat at level 6. Pretty Sneaky, sis.
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Also, number of attacks is limited by BAB, not number of actions. You can take infinite free actions, but if your BAB is only +4, you only get 1 attack without TWF.
Nuh uh! You totally can get more attacks than your BAB normally allows! Why, in your own build you are proposing to get extra attacks via 2 weapon fighting. What you get is a Standard Action, a Move Action, a Swift Action, and an unspecified, but large, number of Free Actions in a round. There is no rule that says you are only allowed a set number of attacks/round.
The rules say that an Attack is a Standard Action. The rules also say that some things, such as using a separate weapon, having multiple natural attacks, or having a high BAB give you extra attacks in the event that you take something called a Full Attack, which is a Full Round Action. Throwing a Throwing Shield as an attack is a Free Action, and then re-drawing it is also a Free Action if it is also a Quickdraw Shield and if you have the Quickdraw Feat. You totally would be entitled to extra attacks the way I described: not many, but 1 or maybe even a few. Also, remember I am proposing to use this as a vehicle for taking Attacks of Opportunity.
The number of Attacks of Opportunity you get in a round is also not determined by your BAB. There is a Feat Tree called Panther Style, which gives you Free Action Attacks, and you are not limited by your BAB for those either.
But this is academic. The suggestion I made with respect to the Throwing Shield really works best with a Light Shield, and you don't want to use a Light Shield. I get what you are doing with your build, and I think it's cool.
Sorry, I meant that the number of attacks you get on your turn is limited by your BAB. If your BAB is +4, and aren't using natural weapons, you only get 2 attacks, a man hand and an off hand. Two weapon fighting doesn't actually give you extra attacks, it just lowers the penalties. However, to make both attacks, you have to use a full attack action, which prevents you from moving other than a 5 ft step.
Sorry, I meant that the number of attacks you get on your turn is limited by your BAB. If your BAB is +4, and aren't using natural weapons, you only get 2 attacks, a man hand and an off hand.
I disagree with that, too. You can take Free Actions even when you are making a Full Attack. And there are ways of Attacking as a Free Action. Throwing a Throwing Shield is one of them.
Also, Great Cleave and Great Cleaving Finish also give you extra attacks.
Really, there are a lot of ways to get a lot of attacks.
My experiences: Bull rushing was great in theory, but I actually retrained out of it in the midlevels because I didn't find it all that helpful and worth any dedicated investment. There were a few fun moments (knocking folks prone against dungeons walls and bashing someone out a window), but honestly once Shield Master came online at L6, I had the AC of a tank with the DPS of a 2H as I pumped my shield's magical bonuses and bull rushing became a trick I didn't much care for anymore. With the amount of money you save by double dipping on your shield as AC and Weapon, you can bolster yourself in other areas to a ridiculous degree.
I went Horizon Walker and Fighter for the Dimensional feats (and feat slots to feed them). I was teleporting shield bashing destroyer of Rovagug and it was a true blast.
If you were to go single-class Slayer, I would suggest going 1 shield, 2 Handing it, picking up Cornagun Smash/Intimidating Prowess/Killing Flourish/Gruesome Slaughter.
Also, another note about Bull Rushing in PFS, to get the most of it required coordination and/or positioning with your party-mates and, as we all know, sometimes folks aren't the most tactically gifted or patient at PFS tables...
I don't know how well these builds work in practice Sammy so it was interesting to see a first hand account. I still think that the siegebreaker would be an interesting build to try. Shield champion siegebreaker making something like 4-6 attacks and bull rushing and getting a pretty big bonus in damage on all of them. Although it's kind of sad merciless rush and the siegebreaker ability don't stack.
My experiences: Bull rushing was great in theory, but I actually retrained out of it in the midlevels because I didn't find it all that helpful and worth any dedicated investment. There were a few fun moments (knocking folks prone against dungeons walls and bashing someone out a window), but honestly once Shield Master came online at L6, I had the AC of a tank with the DPS of a 2H as I pumped my shield's magical bonuses and bull rushing became a trick I didn't much care for anymore. With the amount of money you save by double dipping on your shield as AC and Weapon, you can bolster yourself in other areas to a ridiculous degree.
I went Horizon Walker and Fighter for the Dimensional feats (and feat slots to feed them). I was teleporting shield bashing destroyer of Rovagug and it was a true blast.
If you were to go single-class Slayer, I would suggest going 1 shield, 2 Handing it, picking up Cornagun Smash/Intimidating Prowess/Killing Flourish/Gruesome Slaughter.
Also, another note about Bull Rushing in PFS, to get the most of it required coordination and/or positioning with your party-mates and, as we all know, sometimes folks aren't the most tactically gifted or patient at PFS tables...
I'm having trouble figuring out what feats to take and the order to take them in. Mind showing me a 12 level progression for a straight slayer? Also, how much would a +3 spiked heavy shield cost if I want the +3 to apply to AC and attacks?
My experiences: Bull rushing was great in theory, but I actually retrained out of it in the midlevels because I didn't find it all that helpful and worth any dedicated investment. There were a few fun moments (knocking folks prone against dungeons walls and bashing someone out a window), but honestly once Shield Master came online at L6, I had the AC of a tank with the DPS of a 2H as I pumped my shield's magical bonuses and bull rushing became a trick I didn't much care for anymore. With the amount of money you save by double dipping on your shield as AC and Weapon, you can bolster yourself in other areas to a ridiculous degree.
I went Horizon Walker and Fighter for the Dimensional feats (and feat slots to feed them). I was teleporting shield bashing destroyer of Rovagug and it was a true blast.
If you were to go single-class Slayer, I would suggest going 1 shield, 2 Handing it, picking up Cornagun Smash/Intimidating Prowess/Killing Flourish/Gruesome Slaughter.
Also, another note about Bull Rushing in PFS, to get the most of it required coordination and/or positioning with your party-mates and, as we all know, sometimes folks aren't the most tactically gifted or patient at PFS tables...
I'm having trouble figuring out what feats to take and the order to take them in. Mind showing me a 12 level progression for a straight slayer? Also, how much would a +3 spiked heavy shield cost if I want the +3 to apply to AC and attacks?
Seems like your getting it sorted out. I don't see why you have Combat Reflexes, though.
A +3 Weapon costs 3 X 3 X 2000 = 18,000 gp
A +3 Shield costs 3 X 3 X 1000 = 9,000gp
Each of your shields will require a Shield Enchantment and a Weapon Enchantment if you want AC and Weapon bonuses on both of them. But, since Shield Bonuses to AC don't stack, you might get away with putting the Shield Bonuses on only 1 shield.
I don't know how well these builds work in practice Sammy so it was interesting to see a first hand account. I still think that the siegebreaker would be an interesting build to try. Shield champion siegebreaker making something like 4-6 attacks and bull rushing and getting a pretty big bonus in damage on all of them. Although it's kind of sad merciless rush and the siegebreaker ability don't stack.
The triggers are actually different so I'd say it's rather contested whether or not they stack. I wouldn't do it in PFS though as GMs like to oversimplify the rules.
My experiences with Shield Slam somewhat differ from SamyT's. I have played two characters with Shield Slam and both times I have gotten a lot of use out of Shield Slam. If opponents are positioned inconveniently it's a blow out, plain and simple. The fairly small battle maps in PFS mean lots of walls so lots of opportunity to trip foes. And of course I'm using spiked destroyer cause free attacks rock.
Also Siegbreaker builds.... I really think this is the way to go if you wanna fight with your shield. Getting 1.5 times STR on your attacks and multiple attacks on a standard action before level 6 is really where it's at. No fussin around with high DEX for TWF, half damage on off hand attacks, dependence on full attacks. Just charge and carnage.
The Slayer is generally pretty fun, but there are plenty of other options; a Guide Ranger operates kind of like a Slayer, except that where a Slayer gets a decent bonus to attack and damage when they can use their Studied Target, a Guide gets a huge bonus to attack and damage a limited number of times per day (they basically get Favored Enemy on command, sort of like a Paladin Smite).
With a Strength Patron Witch you get access to Divine Favor and Heroism, which is a huge combined buff. Heroism lasts long enough that you can have it pre-cast, and you can cast Divine Favor as a swift action at 11. Dragon Disciple ends up granting you a +4STR - and also 3 bonus points of AC, which combined with your shield bonus and Mage Armor is plenty of AC even when you aren't wearing any armor.
By level 11, damage with main/offhand shields should clock-in at something like 27/20, and accuracy is solid for a TWF build.
Your spells are primarily for buffing, but there's also nice utility from Witch spells and the Tongues/Feral Hexes, and you can cast Ill Omen and Stone Discus if you feel like it - they're both great no-save options.
Edit: I created this build for a warhammer-and-heavy-shield character - hence the rather dramatic name - which would technically be more optimal; but it's basically the same with two heavy shields.
My experiences: Bull rushing was great in theory, but I actually retrained out of it in the midlevels because I didn't find it all that helpful and worth any dedicated investment. There were a few fun moments (knocking folks prone against dungeons walls and bashing someone out a window), but honestly once Shield Master came online at L6, I had the AC of a tank with the DPS of a 2H as I pumped my shield's magical bonuses and bull rushing became a trick I didn't much care for anymore. With the amount of money you save by double dipping on your shield as AC and Weapon, you can bolster yourself in other areas to a ridiculous degree.
I went Horizon Walker and Fighter for the Dimensional feats (and feat slots to feed them). I was teleporting shield bashing destroyer of Rovagug and it was a true blast.
If you were to go single-class Slayer, I would suggest going 1 shield, 2 Handing it, picking up Cornagun Smash/Intimidating Prowess/Killing Flourish/Gruesome Slaughter.
Also, another note about Bull Rushing in PFS, to get the most of it required coordination and/or positioning with your party-mates and, as we all know, sometimes folks aren't the most tactically gifted or patient at PFS tables...
I'm having trouble figuring out what feats to take and the order to take them in. Mind showing me a 12 level progression for a straight slayer? Also, how much would a +3 spiked heavy shield cost if I want the +3 to apply to AC and attacks?
Seems like your getting it sorted out. I don't see why you have Combat Reflexes, though.
A +3 Weapon costs 3 X 3 X 2000 = 18,000 gp
A +3 Shield costs 3 X 3 X 1000 = 9,000gp
Each of your shields will require a Shield Enchantment and a Weapon Enchantment if...
With the TWF build I actually don't need both enhancements because of Shield Master. I was asking Sammy about his build of two-handing a single shield.
L4
+1 STR
Talent: Combat Trick: Killing Flourish
--At this point you are +8 1d6+13 w/ P.A. against Studied Target
--If you drop a foe, Intimidate at +13 to all w/i 30'
L5
(open feat) (options: Shield Focus, Step Up or Iron will)
L6
Retrain: WF: Shield to Cornagun Smash
Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Shield Master
Bonus Talent: Weapon Training: WF Shield
--you're off to the races with Shield Master now
L7
(open feat)
L8
+1 STR
(open talent) (option: Slow Reactions)
L9
(open feat)
L10
Talent: (Ranger Combat Style: Greater Shield Focus OR Opportunist)
L11
Gruesome Slaughter
(possibly retrain open feat to Dazing Assault because your ATT will be so high)
Basically, L1-6 are pretty set, L7-10 are open to flesh out the way you wish, L11 gets you Gruesome Slaughter (and if you retrain, Dazing Assault).
A +3 Spiked Heavy Shield would cost 9180 gp. I was rocking a +5 shield at L11. After some discussion with a PFS VC, it was determined I could remove/replace my regular shield spikes with adamantine ones.
With this build, at L11 you are Power Attacking a Studied Target with +5 shield for: +25/+20/+15 1d6+27 before buffs or possible flank/sneak attack. Also, your Intimidate is +24. Assume Haste from Boots or a caster, a cheap +hit Ioun Stone, Lenses of the Predator, etc and you'll be wrecking face. Although you can only wear medium armor, boosting your AC won't be an issue because you'll be saving money that would go to a weapon and can use those funds towards AC boosts. With the free Slayer Talents, you could pick a sideline as the party trapfinder/disabler.
@Sammy, the only problem I see with your build is you don't have Improved Shield Bash. So any round you attack with the shield you lose the AC bonus until your next turn.
Also, what in your build allows you to use the +3 AC enhancement bonus as a weapon enhancement bonus on your shield? Because that is the other sticking point I am seeing with two-handing the shield. TWF with the shields gets a feat that allows the shield's AC enhancement to work as attack on enhancement as well.
DO NOT do the "throwing shield" as a free action attack. Especially in PFS. That's a dick move to throw at the GM for something that's blatantly wrong that's taking advantage of bad wording. It's the equivalent of those insisting Shield Master feat gets rid of ALL penalties to shield bashing besides those from two-weapon fighting (such as from Power Attack).
The sane interpretation to the throwing shield rules is a free action to unstrap the shield from the arm so it's available to throw. Such a view won't cause everyone at the table to want to throw heavy and sharp metal dice at the shield-throwing player.
@Sammy, the only problem I see with your build is you don't have Improved Shield Bash. So any round you attack with the shield you lose the AC bonus until your next turn.
Also, what in your build allows you to use the +3 AC enhancement bonus as a weapon enhancement bonus on your shield? Because that is the other sticking point I am seeing with two-handing the shield. TWF with the shields gets a feat that allows the shield's AC enhancement to work as attack on enhancement as well.
The Shield Master feat Sammy's build gets as a level 6 Ranger Combat Style bonus feat allows the enhancement bonus to AC the shield has to be used for attacks.
@Sammy, the only problem I see with your build is you don't have Improved Shield Bash. So any round you attack with the shield you lose the AC bonus until your next turn.
Also, what in your build allows you to use the +3 AC enhancement bonus as a weapon enhancement bonus on your shield? Because that is the other sticking point I am seeing with two-handing the shield. TWF with the shields gets a feat that allows the shield's AC enhancement to work as attack on enhancement as well.
The Shield Master feat Sammy's build gets as a level 6 Ranger Combat Style bonus feat allows the enhancement bonus to AC the shield has to be used for attacks.
You know, I read that feat so many times and never saw that part of it.
Also, I have no interest in throwing shields (although I am naming this character Reeves Todger), but what is this controversial language that has everybody all in a hubbub?
Protoman points out the two rules in the build that people will try to blatantly miss use. My kukri shield build has among the most insane dpr I have ever seen. There is literally no reason to cheese these builds they are very strong.
An other note get iron will and a clear spindle ioun stone because if you start attacking teammates it will get really bad really fast.
@Sammy, the only problem I see with your build is you don't have Improved Shield Bash. So any round you attack with the shield you lose the AC bonus until your next turn.
Also, what in your build allows you to use the +3 AC enhancement bonus as a weapon enhancement bonus on your shield? Because that is the other sticking point I am seeing with two-handing the shield. TWF with the shields gets a feat that allows the shield's AC enhancement to work as attack on enhancement as well.
The Shield Master feat Sammy's build gets as a level 6 Ranger Combat Style bonus feat allows the enhancement bonus to AC the shield has to be used for attacks.
You know, I read that feat so many times and never saw that part of it.
Also, I have no interest in throwing shields (although I am naming this character Reeves Todger), but what is this controversial language that has everybody all in a hubbub?
From your posts I'm aware you don't plan on doing throwing shield. I wanted to reiterate it's not a cool move to do them.
Ulimate Combat and Adventurer's Armory wrote:
Throwing Shield: This shield is designed for throwing and has specially designed straps allowing you to unclasp and throw it as a free action. Tower shields cannot be throwing shields. Neither a shield's enhancement bonus to AC nor its shield spikes apply on your attack or damage rolls.
@Sammy, the only problem I see with your build is you don't have Improved Shield Bash. So any round you attack with the shield you lose the AC bonus until your next turn.
Heyo, I called Improved Shield Bash simply "shield bash." It's the first Ranger Combat Feat you pick up at L2. I'll fix that language.
Is there a reason you did not use Shatter Defenses?
For this build, no particular reason. I just wanted to give a skeleton for the basics and leave some room for personalization. You certainly could use the free L7 and L9 feats if you want to tack on Sneak Damage.
An other note get iron will and a clear spindle ioun stone because if you start attacking teammates it will get really bad really fast.
My original Ranger Basher (when he still had Bull Rush) got hit by a Confusion and started attacking the poor Kitsune rogue next to me. Sadly the Clear Spindle doesn't help with Confusion effects :( The only reason I didn't one-round her was that Merciless Rush knocked her unconscious and left her like 15' away from me. The next round I could act normally and hustled over to the BBEG.
