I'll let you guess what the Blissful Obedience Feat does.I would guess it has to do with being the Submissive in a BDSM relationship.
Hehe, try again. We have some other options for "that".
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Oh various gods and goddesses above and below please no latex armor. Or bikini armor.
... is there a summon succubus harem spell?
Yes there is. It's called the planar binding/planar ally spell chain or extended summon monster or spell research for our core PF gentry, and I'm pretty sure that another one exists in the oft neglected and never referenced book that Mongoose Publishing put out for the same topic for magic, Nymphology, Blue Magic. And for those interested in expansion on some of these topics with a different spin for drow, Green Ronin's Plot and Poison and Mongoose Publishing's The Ultimate or Complete Book of the Drow. And off and on you will some reference to some of these topics throughout Paizo APs, (Spoilers!) since my personal favorite is the villain's motivation in Legacy of Fire, in which an efreeti uses his wish ability to to turn himself into a fiery spawn of Rovgaug to impress a fire elemental princess he has fallen in love with. The marriage card from the Harrow deck is also a fun encounter for love themes, since it's an efreeti and a marid married that you encounter as a storykin in the Harrowing adventure by Paizo.
Will I back? Most likely, since I have some friends of mine use parts of the BOEF back in the 3.5 days, like the knotbinder of Kaladese, who was the goddess of marriage, or the one class that was essentially a sorcerer/monk hybrid based on beauty etc. They also had a great non-erotic related metamagic prestige class that works great for any setting. It may just be a bit until the rent and car payment are done on Friday of next week.
And as for bikini armor, PF also has whatever archetype that they spun up for Red Sonja in Worldscape.
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Besides, I must have ALL of the third party. I MUST! IT IS THE PRECIOUS!
Hmm. An archetype for halfling rogues that have an unhealthy obsession with rings?
However one of my ideas for Fingersmith has to do with massage.Nope!
Fingersmith is a useful Rogue Talent for a charismatic rogue even in PG rated games. So if it's too dirty to describe, then that isn't it either.
Well...using technology and the power of google...some may call it cheating...
Fingersmith was slang for petty thieves and pick pockets..,or someone skilled in the use of their fingers. Or sometimes midwives...
Of those...I would guess pickpockets.
Another guess would be some form of touch based communication.
Hehe, try again. We have some other options for "that".I'll let you guess what the Blissful Obedience Feat does.I would guess it has to do with being the Submissive in a BDSM relationship.
Mmmm...some kind of religious rature?
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And as for bikini armor, PF also has whatever archetype that they spun up for Red Sonja in Worldscape.
Cool archetype, has nothing to do with bikini armor though. When wearing no armor they get add their CHA to their AC, plus they get Dodge bonuses as well. There's also the Warlord archetype from the same line which does something similar. Erik Mona has said the Worldscape could be descsribed as the Unarmored Martial book (or something to that effect).
For 3pp there's the awesome Berserker archetype for Barbarians which add their CON to AC while Raging and get fortification and Fast Healing.
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Oh various gods and goddesses above and below please no latex armor. Or bikini armor.
... is there a summon succubus harem spell?
Yes there is. It's called the planar binding/planar ally spell chain or extended summon monster or spell research for our core PF gentry, and I'm pretty sure that another one exists in the oft neglected and never referenced book that Mongoose Publishing put out for the same topic for magic, Nymphology, Blue Magic. And for those interested in expansion on some of these topics with a different spin for drow, Green Ronin's Plot and Poison and Mongoose Publishing's The Ultimate or Complete Book of the Drow. And off and on you will some reference to some of these topics throughout Paizo APs, (Spoilers!) since my personal favorite is the villain's motivation in Legacy of Fire, in which an efreeti uses his wish ability to to turn himself into a fiery spawn of Rovgaug to impress a fire elemental princess he has fallen in love with. The marriage card from the Harrow deck is also a fun encounter for love themes, since it's an efreeti and a marid married that you encounter as a storykin in the Harrowing adventure by Paizo.
Will I back? Most likely, since I have some friends of mine use parts of the BOEF back in the 3.5 days, like the knotbinder of Kaladese, who was the goddess of marriage, or the one class that was essentially a sorcerer/monk hybrid based on beauty etc. They also had a great non-erotic related metamagic prestige class that works great for any setting. It may just be a bit until the rent and car payment are done on Friday of next week.
You can do it that way for a permanent harem, yes. But that's a LOT to do, a Summon Succubi Harem for 1 night type spell would be neat, and it's not like there's not a precedent for spells that summon specific creatures that function slightly differently from normal summon spells.
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I know your pain. I too had avoided facebook... until this project began. Since I need to answer questions, I had to join - for the greater good.Ah, darn. I refuse to use Facebook (I really don't like them, as a company) so it's a shame there's no way to see the preview artwork otherwise.
But at least I get to be surprised when the book comes out!
You have sacrificed more than I would have....
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Oh various gods and goddesses above and below please no latex armor. Or bikini armor.
But...but...Freehold want!
... is there a summon succubus harem spell?
Oh, so it's okay to summon 90 of you for a party, but I can't have bikini armor? Conflict of interest!!!!
No bikini armor. Sorry. We tried to be REALISTICALLY fantasy sexy.
;_;
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I know your pain. I too had avoided facebook... until this project began. Since I need to answer questions, I had to join - for the greater good.Ah, darn. I refuse to use Facebook (I really don't like them, as a company) so it's a shame there's no way to see the preview artwork otherwise.
But at least I get to be surprised when the book comes out!
You have sacrificed more than I would have....
It is good to know I am not the only person out here to not have drank the Facebook kool-aid.
We should start a Facebook group. ;)
I'm on Facebook. It's one of the few places online where I use my real name instead of this one, and it's a complete pain in the proverbial to make sure I don't mix the two.
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Well...using technology and the power of google...some may call it cheating...
Fingersmith was slang for petty thieves and pick pockets..,or someone skilled in the use of their fingers. Or sometimes midwives...
Of those...I would guess pickpockets.
Got it!
Specifically, Fingersmith is a rogue talent that lets you distract a Sleigh of Hand target with - and I'm being intentionally vague here - your sexual skill, making that check the DC to notice the sleigh of hand check.
Basically, it's the "flirt with the target to distract them from the fact that you're stealing their keys/wallet/spell component pouch" move.
That can, of course, be perfectly "PG" - depending on how intense and detailed the flirting/distraction gets.
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Yes there is. It's called the planar binding/planar ally spell chain or extended summon monster
You can do it that way for a permanent harem, yes. But that's a LOT to do, a Summon Succubi Harem for 1 night type spell would be neat, and it's not like there's not a precedent for spells that summon specific creatures that function slightly differently from normal summon spells.
Actually, we have three spells in the book called "Planar Lover" (regular, greater, and lesser). They work similarly to planar binding, but specifically work for one of several types of sexual pacts (with the sex either being the payment or the service required).
That doesn't call a harem - that's more the summoner's thing - but it does touch on the old "child as payment" trope seen in many a fantasy story and fairy tale (or it can, depending on which service/boon the caster chooses).
Ah, darn. I refuse to use Facebook (I really don't like them, as a company) so it's a shame there's no way to see the preview artwork otherwise.
But at least I get to be surprised when the book comes out!
It's what Old Lady Stiles uses, so the gang went with it. I'm on there more than anywhere else, as it's just easy to use, and I don't have a lot of free time for irritating software.
Do you guys have a better suggestion? Google group? I'll listen.
I'm on Facebook. It's one of the few places online where I use my real name instead of this one, and it's a complete pain in the proverbial to make sure I don't mix the two.
I generally use my real name everywhere. It often gets me in trouble that I can't hide from--like that time I called Paizo out for not having any women developers (before they finally hired some) and haven't had any work from then since ;-) --but I prefer to be me.
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Ah, darn. I refuse to use Facebook (I really don't like them, as a company) so it's a shame there's no way to see the preview artwork otherwise.
But at least I get to be surprised when the book comes out!
It's what Old Lady Stiles uses, so the gang went with it. I'm on there more than anywhere else, as it's just easy to use, and I don't have a lot of free time for irritating software.
Do you guys have a better suggestion? Google group? I'll listen.
I mostly just use the Paizo site.
I mostly just use the Paizo site.
Well, the authors are here to answer questions, it's just that you won't be able to see some art samples.
Will & Margherita will continue to engage here.
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I use Facebook, not as much as I used to, but still more than I really should. Getting my home groups into Telegram has reduced the need a lot.
I also stopped separating my online identity from my public one. It means I have to own what I say more than when I hid behind the mask of anonymity. It may come back to bite me but I wouldn't go back.
Mmmm...some kind of religious rature?Hehe, try again. We have some other options for "that".I'll let you guess what the Blissful Obedience Feat does.I would guess it has to do with being the Submissive in a BDSM relationship.
You're getting nearer!
Ah, darn. I refuse to use Facebook (I really don't like them, as a company) so it's a shame there's no way to see the preview artwork otherwise.
But at least I get to be surprised when the book comes out!
It's what Old Lady Stiles uses, so the gang went with it. I'm on there more than anywhere else, as it's just easy to use, and I don't have a lot of free time for irritating software.
Do you guys have a better suggestion? Google group? I'll listen.
Hey that is not my quote...
I have no idea...except the kickstarter page...
My friend whose books go through kickstarter reveals artwork with updates to drum up interest.
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You're getting nearer!Mmmm...some kind of religious rature?Hehe, try again. We have some other options for "that".I'll let you guess what the Blissful Obedience Feat does.I would guess it has to do with being the Submissive in a BDSM relationship.
Fulfilling a Celestial Obedience also results in the bonus of an orgasm?
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Fulfilling a Celestial Obedience also results in the bonus of an orgasm?You're getting nearer!Mmmm...some kind of religious rature?Hehe, try again. We have some other options for "that".I'll let you guess what the Blissful Obedience Feat does.I would guess it has to do with being the Submissive in a BDSM relationship.
Well several Obedience all ready have orgasm built in...
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Bonus round!!!!
Well, if there is an Agonizing Obedience, why couldn't there be more pleasurable obediences... Tantra is a thing, after all, isn't it?
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Succubi use change shape and charm, that kinda solves that issue.
... and I don't really wanna know what scenario there is where a reward is "I want to father your child" unless it's one where the Queen wants to have a child, in which case why wouldn't you get sword as well as a thank you?
As for choosing between sex and items, that's a player thing, and I don't really see any mechanics that could be added that would make the former more viable than the latter to the people who care more about items and mechanics.
Lots of people like magical swords, lots of people like sex, there's not really an issue here.
Succubi use change shape and charm, that kinda solves that issue.
... and I don't really wanna know what scenario there is where a reward is "I want to father your child" unless it's one where the Queen wants to have a child, in which case why wouldn't you get sword as well as a thank you?
As for choosing between sex and items, that's a player thing, and I don't really see any mechanics that could be added that would make the former more viable than the latter to the people who care more about items and mechanics.
Lots of people like magical swords, lots of people like sex, there's not really an issue here.
please say magical sex. I vote for magical sex.
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please say magical sex. I vote for magical sex.Succubi use change shape and charm, that kinda solves that issue.
... and I don't really wanna know what scenario there is where a reward is "I want to father your child" unless it's one where the Queen wants to have a child, in which case why wouldn't you get sword as well as a thank you?
As for choosing between sex and items, that's a player thing, and I don't really see any mechanics that could be added that would make the former more viable than the latter to the people who care more about items and mechanics.
Lots of people like magical swords, lots of people like sex, there's not really an issue here.
There's the awesome Vigilante social talent Companion to the Lonely, I wouldn't mind more like that.
Sex with magical swords?
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Succubi use change shape and charm, that kinda solves that issue.Not only does it not solve the issue, it doesn't even address it. Being charmed is making you lose some degree of control over your character; that's not only not a reward, it's a punishment.
... and I don't really wanna know what scenario there is where a reward is "I want to father your child" unless it's one where the Queen wants to have a child, in which case why wouldn't you get sword as well as a thank you?When one says that it's a "reward," there's an inherent premise that it's being offered; given that an Empress is by definition the highest-ranking functionary in an empire, it's therefore understood that she'd be the one offering it. And as for why you can't have both, because that's the scenario that's being presented - you either get to put your offspring on the throne, or get a national treasure; both would be too much.
As for choosing between sex and items, that's a player thing, and I don't really see any mechanics that could be added that would make the former more viable than the latter to the people who care more about items and mechanics.Hence why I wasn't asking you; I was asking the book's designers. Just because you don't see a resolution to this issue doesn't mean that they don't.
Lots of people like magical swords, lots of people like sex, there's not really an issue here.Except that there is, since the game rules inherently favor one over the other, despite a strong narrative implication that the other should have the potential be tempting to a comparable degree.
we are either playing with very different people or playing very different games.
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Uh, sleeping with a Succubus is a punishment since they're trying to steal your soul. They're Evil. We joke and fantasize about them a lot but they're still evil. If you want Succubi sex without repercussions there's deathward and similar abilies.
And you don't think the Empress might be pressured into "offering" that reward? This is all kinds of disturbing.
"Hence why I wasn't asking you."
Until the the people in charge ask that only they be allowed to answer questions and the like get used to other people, other backers, responding to you on a public forum about the project they're backing.
"Except that there is, since the game rules inherently favor one over the other, despite a strong narrative implication that the other should have the potential be tempting to a comparable degree."
Yeah the rules and mechanics favor it. Just like the mechanics favor taking the magical belt the poor family you saved found as a gift rather than letting them keep and sell it so they can survive. This problem your touting isn't as universal as you claim it to be. I know plenty of people who would take the non mechanics option.
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Everything we're being told about the book seems great so far, but there's something I'm hoping for that hasn't really been mentioned yet. Specifically, is there a way to incentivize sex itself from a mechanical standpoint?
Well, not in general, but remember I said that "most" of the archetypes can be used in a game of any rating.
The reason those can't be is that they require the character to have sex, usually using the more detailed sexual encounter rules, to make some of their class features function.
For example, there is a spellcaster (I won't say which one) archetype where one of the main features is the ability to drain energy from their sexual partners. What type of energy gets drained depends on the nature of the partner. Other spellcasters lose spells, which are then castable by the aforementioned archetype character. Other classes lose other forms of life energy.
So there's an example of a mechanical incentive to have sex.
I ask that because there's a narrative disconnect between how tempting sex would be for characters in the game world versus what PCs want for their characters. While someone who comes face-to-face with a succubus would be (and should be) tempted to "grapple" her even if they know it's a bad idea, a PC will take one look at her and say "get away from me, you negative level factory," and roll initiative. Only her profane gift would make them hesitate.
Unless they have a certain magic item (or class feature in one case) that negates the succubus ability to level drain....
A particularly trollish character might be tempted just to see the look on the succubus' face when she tried and failed to drain anything.
The problem is that players (at least in Pathfinder, and similar mechanics-heavy games) tend to view mechanical optimization as the only real rewards in the game, and so are only tempted by that.
Here's the thing. The Book of Passion does not treat sex as a reward. It treats sex as a means to gain rewards.
You're comparing sex to a magic sword.
However, we treat sex as comparable to disarming a trap (with the simple rules) or a full combat encounter (with the complex rules). When you hear me use the phrase "sexual encounter", that's why.
Of course, some of this depends on context. If two PCs fall in love and get married, then their sex A) is for fun/personal fulfillment and B) doesn't need to be fully roleplayed. If the couple wants to, they can roll - or they can assume that they take their time (take 20) and thus don't need to roll. No "encounter" needed.
On the other hand, seducing an enemy and turning them to your side would certainly be an experience worthy encounter. It would be using sex in place of a combat to defeat an enemy for an experience reward.
Most of the time, of course, it's more of a skill check situation. You need to please an NPC so they will give you some information, and you choose seduction as the means to do so. The simple rules are plenty for that, so one roll and done.
So no, the Book of Passion doesn't treat sex as a reward. Love it a battlefield, not a magic weapon.
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Here's the thing. The Book of Passion does not treat sex as a reward. It treats sex as a means to gain rewards.
You're comparing sex to a magic sword.
However, we treat sex as comparable to disarming a trap (with the simple rules) or a full combat encounter (with the complex rules). When you hear me use the phrase "sexual encounter", that's why.
That's what I was asking about; I think that's a shame, though I'm still excited for the book.
The reason I brought it up is because a not-uncommon view of sex is that it's an end unto itself; it's something to be attained, not (necessarily) a means to gain something else. Achieving it gains you something (e.g. pleasure, reproduction, etc.) and the prospect of what you'd gain incentivizes its attainment; that particular incentivization isn't translated into game rules, and I think that's a missed opportunity, even if it's difficult to imagine what the practical implementation would look like.
Still, thanks for taking the time to answer!
I know you got your answers...but I think it is worth pointing out something. Not everything needs to be done for direct mechanical benefits...a good GM will pay it back later.
For instances my worshipper of Calistria (not surprisingly) sleeps with lots of people. She has a lot of friends. My GM allows her to get discount on items or services, sometime has her given gifts by her paramour, or she can get information or protection, etc.
Or my former slave character who fell in love with her overseer ended up getting her to help with their escape and my character got the overseer as a cohort.
To remove sex from the equation I also had a Paladin who refused to take a reward for certain adventures because it was the right thing to do...eventually her church rewarded her with a Holy Avenger.
Just pointing out there are ways to get what you want with out somebody writing rules for it.
Well, if your character is evil, and a beautiful naked angel comes to him saying "wouldn't you prefer to come with me rather than be against me?..." maybe that is enough an incentivation?...
I think the point being that the choice to use seduction as the means to overcome (ahem) an encounter is exactly the same as choosing to use diplomacy, a charm monster spell, or start a fight: you get XP and treasure for all encounters you overcome as part of the adventure. You might not get it at the time*, but you will receive your just rewards.
*: I'm having a great deal of difficulty picturing a character getting it on with a succubus and suddenly being showered by 23,500 gp at the, ah, climax of the encounter.
@Alzius: Yes you need a good GM to make it work...but than again you need a good GM to make this game work at all...there is no rules in the game that makes the GM to do anything.
Also who says any of this is unspoken...I talked to my GMS about those things. Like I go shopping for items I point out I am using my relationship with that merchant to get a discount...which usually gives me atleast a bonus on my diplomacy roll to negotiate a discount.
Also there is no GM fiat...my characters earned those things.
In other words have a talk with your GM and tell him or her your expectations. All players should do this.
Though I get...there are GMs out there there who can not think beyond the rules which can be annoying and frustrating...though I find it more annoying and frustrated to have rules when I don't need them.
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The "built for lack of trust between GM and players" was the number one thing that killed interest in 4th edition for me.
Put me up for a snog with the Empress over taking the holy avenger any day. Seriously, it's a whack situation, it will have far-reaching consequences, it ties my character into the world, it makes an NPC more interesting in the campaign. What was the alternative again? A better chance to hit stuff?
we are either playing with very different people or playing very different games.Lots of people like magical swords, lots of people like sex, there's not really an issue here.Except that there is, since the game rules inherently favor one over the other, despite a strong narrative implication that the other should have the potential be tempting to a comparable degree.You're making the same mistake Rysky did; just because people decide to play up narrative aspects over mechanical ones, doesn't correct the inherent imbalance between rewards that are mechanically incentivized and those that aren't. That's right up there with saying that the caster/martial disparity doesn't exist (or isn't a problem) because some people aren't bothered by it.
And for crying out loud, if you want to just focus on one part of the exchange, don't quote the entire post! :p
But it's more fun this way.