20 Point Buy - 18 / 18 / 8 / 7 / 7 / 7


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


What class would make the best of this point by system and what stats would they allocate to? Perhaps an Alchemist Mad Bomber with +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Stuff, for 20/20/7/7/7/6? Duel Talent Human for 20/20/8/7/7/7? What class/race would you guys play with this stat spread?

This is purely for entertainment fun - but I want to know how you guys would make this optimal. PFS Legal only.


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Wizard


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If I'm told I have to play 18/18/8/7/7/7 it would probably be as a Kineticist, dual talent human with a 20 in DEX and CON, I have no use for STR or CHA, INT just means few skill points which is survivable, and the 8 goes to Wisdom which is unfortunate, but I'll take Iron Will and buy a headband.


Empiricist Investigator w/ INT+DEX maxed is nice enough I suppose


@Johnnycat - YOU, SHALL NOT, PASS! 18 Int and... something else. Probably Human +2 Int or another class with +2 Int just because?

@P.Cabbage - Interesting. Also, putting 8 into Wis means you can wear a +2 Mental Headband, while increasing it more later on for more wis saves. Then you can use the belt with the side effect of increase your Physical stats to increase carry capacity. What exactly does a Kineticist do that makes them want x2 18s?

@ Jae Wolftail - Better take a 1 level dip in Swashbucker for Inspired Blade. You'll want some form of defense other then High Dex Defense, and Parry is one of the best non-AC based defenses in the game. Use your attack bonus to determine if you block an attack? priceless.

I'm going to be truthful here, and say that the reason why I wanted to talk about 18/18/8/7/7/7 Classes was because of the Inspired Blade 1, Empiricist Investigator X build I was focusing on.


If it had to be martial I'd say a Lore Warden/Learned Duelist Fighter. Human.
Str (7) Dex (20) Con (18) Int (8) Wis (7) Cha (7)

Dex to Damage (with the 3 feats at lvl1), high Con. Still does good damage with great AC. No need for any other stats, really. The low Int hurts...but you still get 4 skill points per level (sadly 2 need to be Int skills). Low Wis hurts like hell. So get Iron Will, a will boosting trait, and at Lvl 4 get +1 Wis.

Get combat expertise for free regardless of low Int too.


TheMonkeyFish wrote:
@P.Cabbage - Interesting. Also, putting 8 into Wis means you can wear a +2 Mental Headband, while increasing it more later on for more wis saves. Then you can use the belt with the side effect of increase your Physical stats to increase carry capacity. What exactly does a Kineticist do that makes them want x2 18s?

I find that few classes are as completely dependent on 2 physical stats and virtually nothing else to do what it says on the box than the Kineticist. You essentially spend your HP like a resource, and your damage scales based on Constitution so you want that as high as possible, but you're also a "one big hit" class that uses Dex to hit so missing once wastes your entire round, also you're going to be spending a lot of time within charge range and you're limited to light armor and won't get a shield bonus most rounds because you're using that hand to gather power. Plus your DCs are based on either Dex (for form infusions) or Con (for everything else).

Very few classes can dump STR as low as it gets and still be effective in melee and carry 400+ lbs of stuff without encumbrance when not fighting.

Admittedly this wouldn't be my preferred min-max array at 20 PB, but that would be something like 7/17/17/10/12/7 which isn't far off.


If I can start at level 3 or higher, dwarf Zen Archer 20 wis. Though hard to say whether the 2nd 18 should go to str, dex, or con.


I suspect a cleric with con/wis high, everything else low would be playable. You have good save progression and good stats in the two most important saves, the high con would cover many failed reflex saves, and cleric spells/domain powers can be most of your actions. The worst part would be having few skills so I'd make the character a human (not dual-talented) and put the favored class bonus there for a painful but acceptable 3 per level.

The ecclesitheurge archetype and playing like a wizard seem like the way to go - you can't wear much armor anyway because you can't carry it as a 7 str medium-size character.


play lich oracle and put the 18 into con and either str or wis the lowest number will be in con which becomes a dash and if you pick the right mystery you can have you ac based of cha instead of dex and you can get cha to inisiative instead of dex as well and cha to reflex saves i think aswell


I'd look which attributes you absolutely don't want to dumb. Con is a very reasonable answer, as having incredibly low hp combined with penalized fortitude saving thows sounds like a quick way to die. So we'd need to pick a class that either only needs one attribute or has con as one of its needed stats.

Kineticits sounds like a good pick. If you pick a mithral chain shirt you can stay at light load even with your abysmal str and at least 2 of your saves will be really nice.
Full casters would be the alternative.


if you do go kenetisist you can pick hobgoblin for if you have a race boon for it if there is one i have no idea


Lady-J wrote:
play lich oracle and put the 18 into con and either str or wis the lowest number will be in con which becomes a dash and if you pick the right mystery you can have you ac based of cha instead of dex and you can get cha to inisiative instead of dex as well and cha to reflex saves i think aswell

You can get Cha to AC+CMD (Nature) OR AC+Ref (Lore/Lunar) but not all at the same time and never to Init, so you're gonna have at least 1 thing normally off dex that's gonna be really low, so you'd have to get a +dex item to compensate


Oracles can run basically everything of Charisma with a bit of work so oracle with Cha Con would probably work.
That or a kineticist.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Oracles can run basically everything of Charisma with a bit of work so oracle with Cha Con would probably work.

That or a kineticist.

It does sort of sound like the Life Oracle stat line.


Yarp.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

You could even go Lore Oracle, get that sweet charisma bonus to AC instead of Dexterity. :-)


Lore oracle, Desna star, scion of war and steadfast mind/paladin dip for those who never want to use Dex or STR or Wis for anything ever again

Liberty's Edge

I will echo others here that you want one of your good stats to be CON and the other to be either WIS or DEX. This is just common sense as far as needing to get saves up.

So I will support the others who said:

Caster cleric with CON/WIS
Kineticist with DEX/CON

I think you could also add

Empyreal Sorcerer with CON/WIS

to the list.

I am not so sure about those saying wizard...That would mean you have two saves that suck, which seems to be pushing the issue.


Pre-change Scarred Witch Doctor. Rocking an 18 DEX on a full caster because you can!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Ecclesitheurge could be interesting with 18s in dex and wis. Put the 8 rather than a 7 in con. Then you could use the FCB for HP at every level, and be OK as long as you keep in mind how fragile you are. Or else use the racial +2 on con. Also, you might want to pick your deity carefully to see if any domain powers can help with how fragile you'll be.

The Exchange

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
If I can start at level 3 or higher, dwarf Zen Archer 20 wis. Though hard to say whether the 2nd 18 should go to str, dex, or con.

IF i were to do this, it would be an Oread Zen Archer, and would be Str/Wis primary for:

Str - 20
Con - 8
Dex - 7
Int - 7
Wis - 20
Cha - 5

Then I'd be getting a Con Belt ASAP.

But i'd never do that, my Oread ZA is 16/14/14/9/18/5 at lvl 1 (25pb)


Barbarian.

Who needs anything except STR and CON anyway?


PK the Dragon wrote:

Barbarian.

Who needs anything except STR and CON anyway?

Then get permanent enlarge person and 'come and get me'

Always leave yourself open to being hit. Enemies get +4 hit and +4 damage. You always get a free attack of opportunity.

Dex7. So you have AC8. Drops down to AC6 from raging and AC2 from Come and Get Me.

So enemies know that you will be hit. But while raging you have Str28 (at lvl12, higher with items).

You will be hitting them first. "Prior to resolving each enemy attack."

So the question is...can they survive your attacks to get those automatic hits in?


Grumbaki wrote:
PK the Dragon wrote:

Barbarian.

Who needs anything except STR and CON anyway?

Then get permanent enlarge person and 'come and get me'

Always leave yourself open to being hit. Enemies get +4 hit and +4 damage. You always get a free attack of opportunity.

Dex7. So you have AC8. Drops down to AC6 from raging and AC2 from Come and Get Me.

So enemies know that you will be hit. But while raging you have Str28 (at lvl12, higher with items).

You will be hitting them first. "Prior to resolving each enemy attack."

So the question is...can they survive your attacks to get those automatic hits in?

Come and Get Me is not a good idea if you're running with Dex 7.


Why not? It's hilarious. "Enemies, I guarantee you will hit me. But I'll be hitting you first!"


Grumbaki wrote:
Why not? It's hilarious. "Enemies, I guarantee you will hit me. But I'll be hitting you first!"

Because you'll only have 1 attack of opportunity a round, and you'll need to invest 5 point into dexterity and combat reflexes before you starting having more than one.


you could possibly run something off a Flying Blade using CHA/DEX and CON or CHA and DEX and then just watch out for anything and everything that targets your Fort or gets around your parries.


I actually did this once for a munchkin campaign, and made a Synthesist Summoner. 7/7/7/8/18/18

Then I made them venerable, 1/1/1/11/21/21.

Then went dual talent human, 1/1/1/11/23/23.

Then put on a quadruped pounce summon suit and prayed it never got dispelled.


Synthesist Summoner

nvm... missed the PFS legal part.

Second thought... A gunslinger... 18s in wis and dex. Bigger HD, so the 8 con is less of an issue.


Synth summoner is the obvious winner, but the OP said PFS legal.


Maybe a Bard/oracle of Lore with Desna's divine fighting technique and Noble scion

You can use Cha to attack, damage, casting stat, AC, REF, Initiative and eventuslly knowledge skill rolls. You can get a few free skills based on CHA (like acrobatics or sense motive) with versatile performance. high CON means good FOR, and you have weak WIS, but you have good Will from both classes.

The Exchange

Might be able to get away with a combat rogue (unchained of course), all con/dex, keep the 8 in wis so you don't take the -2 to Will save and pump the will save.


dharkus wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
play lich oracle and put the 18 into con and either str or wis the lowest number will be in con which becomes a dash and if you pick the right mystery you can have you ac based of cha instead of dex and you can get cha to inisiative instead of dex as well and cha to reflex saves i think aswell
You can get Cha to AC+CMD (Nature) OR AC+Ref (Lore/Lunar) but not all at the same time and never to Init, so you're gonna have at least 1 thing normally off dex that's gonna be really low, so you'd have to get a +dex item to compensate

nobel scion of war feat gets you cha to inisiative instead of dex but wouldnt work any way as i missed the pfs legal part at 1st so no lich :(


My first idea is a Summoner with a cha/con setup. That much con means the Eidolon can get the stat belt instead. Then I go Half Elf, pick up a Demon Eidolon, and make the best murderous pouncebeast that I can.

I struggle to think of other things that I'd play. Kineticist has the best potential, but dumping wisdom on a low willsave class is jut bad news bears.


Given that I would have to dump something to play with that array, the only thing that comes to mind is "a major liability to the party". You either have no HP, no will save, or play a caster that is good for absolutely nothing once the spells are done. And cleric would be bad because you either have no channeling or have no hp, and those are bad options either way.

This is a weird challenge.


Kineticist is definitely the class to go with if you want to end up with almost zero downsides from the array. Heck, they barely need feats and they don't need any other mental stats, so bringing up the will save wouldn't be too hard in the long run.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Dumb, brute, kill monster, barbarian.


bishop083 wrote:
or play a caster that is good for absolutely nothing once the spells are done.

Which would be a fresh and exciting development in the d20 system.


Lunar Oracle with Mark of the Devoted and Noble Scion (war)? Sure, you'll die quickly, but when you come back, it's going to be with an array of 22 / 9 / x / 7 / 8 / 20. Bring it on!

Edit: PFS legal, right, right. I always miss that. Ignore me! :D

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