Does everyone realize we're just telling stories. Take a step back and remember that it's all just made up. The designers certainly don't care, half this stuff is just the things they made up in their living room.
Golarion isn't Pathfinder
Your Pathfinder isn't mine.
We get to pick whatever we want from whatever sources and use it to entertain ourselves and fellow players.
There is no heresy. Only new life
I love you all.
I won't say that I love everybody, I do hope that people keep this idea in mind. I don't hold any more animosity about game ideas and rules than about which combination of cards is the best full house.
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But I need his stats, because that man is TOTALLY going to show up in my campaign. I don't care how I have to write him in...
Note: I suck at optimisation + the concept uses a rather weak weapon + ability scores like wisdom were raised far higher than they needed to be but it seemed thematic = so stats within may be horrible.
Jiahao & the Jade Crown
Sitting calmly in the center of the lake is a 15 foot tall viridescent tortoise, the edges of it’s shell are curved in a way to give it the appearance of a crown, inspiring the spirit’s title as the Jade Crown. Atop the Jade Crown’s apex sits the meditating shaman Jiahao, donned in moss covered samurai armour with a massive tiger fork in his grasp, his ho-ate mask giving him the visage of a dilung.
Jiahao is a shaman who uses his faith in the Imperial Philosophy to perform various mystical rites which can heal others, binds the Jade Crown to his soul, fill an opponent’s mind with all the terrors he has experienced, empowers him in combat, and lets him divine the future by watching falling water, as well as many other abilities.
Once a week Jiahao travels from his lake to provide the nearby human village with his spiritual aid, but sometimes young heroes travel through the forested hills requesting his guidance. There have been tales of heroes arriving at Jiahao’s lake, only to find him meditating without his arms or legs claiming he is attuning his aura to that of the tortoise.
XP 51,200
Half-Elf Order of Stars Cavalier (Ghost Rider) 15
LG Medium Humanoid (Elf, Human)
Init +4; Senses Low-Light Vision; Perception +19
AC 26, touch 12, flat-footed 26 (+0 dex, +12 armour, +2 deflection, +2 natural armour)
hp 147 (15d10+60)
Fort +18, Ref +10, Will +13
Immune Fear, Sleep
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +2 Adamantine Impact Tiger Fork +22/+17/+12 (2d6+9; 19-20; brace)
Power Attack +2 Adamantine Impact Tiger Fork +18/+13/+8 (2d6+21; 19-20; brace)
Str 20, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 20
Base Atk +15/+10/+5, CMB +20 (+22 overrun), CMD 30 (+32 overrun)
Feats Charge Through, Improved Critical (Tiger Fork), Improved Initiative, Improved Overrun, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Psychic Sensitivity, Psychic Virtuoso, Ride by Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample
Skills Heal +13 (+15 with Faith Healing), Knowledge (Nature) +19, Knowledge (Religion) +19 (+26 on Imperial Philosophy), Perception +19 (+23 with Read Aura), Ride +18, Sense Motive +13 (+15 with Hydromancy), Swim +6, Survival +9 (+11 with Dowsing), Use Magic Device +15
Language Common, Draconic, Elven
Equipped Gear Adamantine Impact Tigerfork, Mwk Living Steel O-Yoroi, Ring of Regeneration, Ring of Swimming Gear Breath of Life Scroll, Monk Outfit, Reincarnate Scrolls (2), Wands of Cure Light Wounds (10), Wand of Endure Elements, Wand of Remove Sickness, 1,620 gp
Calling (Ex): Jiahao can make a short prayer as a standard action, filling him with confidence in his abilities. At any point in the next minute, he can receive a +5 competence bonus on an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. He must declare that he is using this bonus before the roll is made. He can use this ability up to four times per day, once for each type of check or roll.
Challenge (Ex): Once per day, jiahao can challenge a foe to combat. As a swift action, jiahao chooses one target within sight to challenge. Jiahao’s melee attacks deal 15 extra damage whenever the attacks are made against the target of his challenge. In addition he while threatening the target of his challenge he receives a +4 morale bonus on all his saving throws and the target takes a –2 penalty to its AC from attacks made by anyone other than the cavalier. Jiahao can use this ability six times a day. Challenging a foe requires much of jiahao's concentration. Jiahao takes a –2 penalty to his Armor Class, except against attacks made by the target of his challenge. The challenge remains in effect until the target is dead or unconscious or until the combat ends.
Edicts: Jiahao must strive to protect the Imperial Philosophy and all those who follow its teachings, from priest to common man. He must adhere to the strictures of the Imperial Philosophy, promote its cause whenever possible, and serve the agents of the divine. If he violates any of these edicts, he loses the bonus on saves aspect of his challenge ability for 24 hours. The violation of an edict is subject to GM interpretation.
Ghost Mount (Su): The Jade Crown is jiahao’s ghost mount.
Fearless (Su): Jiahao is immune to fear, and each ally within 10 feet of him gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This ability functions only while jiahao is conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead.
For the Faith (Ex): Jiahao can call upon his faith to bolster himself in combat. As a free action, jiahao can call out the names of the Five Tennō, granting him a +5 morale bonus on attack rolls for 1 round. In addition, any allies within 30 feet that share his faith also receive half this bonus. Jiahao can use this ability twice per day.
Frightful Gaze (Su): Jiahao can use this ability on opponents within 30 feet as a standard action, which acts as a gaze attack until jiahao’s next turn. Creatures within range that meet his gaze must succeed at a Will saving throw (DC 22) or stand paralyzed in fear for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting fear effect. Creatures that successfully save against jiahao's frightful gaze are immune to it for 24 hours. This ability can affect creatures that are mindless or immune to mind-affecting effects, though it still counts as a fear effect. Jiahao can use this ability five times per day.
The Jade Crown
LG Large Animal (Phantom)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8
AC 30, touch 13, flat-footed 26 (+4 dex, +17 natural, -1 size)
hp 102 (12d8+48)
Fort +13, Ref +11, Will +7 (+11 against enchantment)
Speed 50 ft., fly 50 ft. (average)
Melee bite +13 (1d4+4; magic), 2 feet +11 (1d8+2; magic)
Str 18, Dex 19, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 12
Base Atk +9/+4, CMB +14, CMD 28
Feats Great Fortitude, Improved Natural Weapon (feet), Improved Natural Armour, Iron Will, Multiattack, Toughness
Skills Fly +19, Intimidate +12, Perception +8, Swim +11
SQ ignores difficult terrain, link, water walk at-will
"Golarion isn't Pathfinder."
It's pretty refreshing to see that some people are entirely aware of this. Pathfinder is just a set of rules so you can create your own world and setting, and that it's not a setting at all. It obviously has them, like how 3.5 has Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms, but people often refer to Pathfinder as a setting itself. Pathfinder is just another means of letting people play in your fantasy world.
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It's frankly rather silly to have it so that a creature whose hide only yields to adamantine, or some such, can be damaged by simple, nothing-out-of-the-ordinary brambles.
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What about Spike Growth?
It does piercing damage, but it isn't a 'normal attack'.
Not an attack.
DR doesn't apply against non-attacks.
How does DR interact with magical effects that deal bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage?
Although the Bestiary definition of Damage Reduction (page 299) says "The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities," that's actually just referring to damage that isn't specifically called out as being of a particular type, such as fire damage or piercing damage. In other words, DR doesn't protect against "typeless damage" from magical attacks.
However, if a magical attack specifically mentions that it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, DR affects that damage normally, as if it were from a physical weapon. (Otherwise the magical attack might as well not have a damage type, as it would only interface with B/P/S damage in a very few corner cases, such as whether or not an ooze splits from that attack.)
For example, the ice storm spell deals 3d6 points of bludgeoning damage and 2d6 points of cold damage. If you cast ice storm at a group of zombies, the zombie's DR 5/slashing protects them against 5 points of the spell's bludgeoning damage. Their DR doesn't help them against the spell's cold damage because DR doesn't apply to energy attacks.
There really isn't anything I'm uncomfortable with Martials learning, if you read the second post in my link you'd see the valkyrie gains a dorm of summonong at level 17 [and breath of life]So, your solutions is to make everyone a 'caster'?
Can a high level martial obtain a wish ability?
For the folks who complain that casters outshine non-casters it does sound like E6 (not E8, E12, or anything higher) is the game they should be playing. Or perhaps since the vast majority of campaigns end by level 12 or so... it simply isn't the bubonic plauge level of problem that some might make it out to be.
From what I've seen though, ultra high level campaigns... those that go above 15 are so idiosyncratic that making general assumptions is risky at best.
Yeah, I have had 3.5 games break down when casters get 9th level spells, but we were fine throughout RotRL.
Not saying it doesnt happen, but it's not a problem at all tables below normal Adventure path range.
The devs say they dont see it either. But afaik they dont play that high either.
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There really isn't anything I'm uncomfortable with Martials learning, if you read the second post in my link you'd see the valkyrie gains a dorm of summonong at level 17 [and breath of life]So, your solutions is to make everyone a 'caster'?
Can a high level martial obtain a wish ability?
For the folks who complain that casters outshine non-casters it does sound like E6 (not E8, E12, or anything higher) is the game they should be playing. Or perhaps since the vast majority of campaigns end by level 12 or so... it simply isn't the bubonic plauge level of problem that some might make it out to be.
From what I've seen though, ultra high level campaigns... those that go above 15 are so idiosyncratic that making general assumptions is risky at best.
Yeah, I have had 3.5 games break down when casters get 9th level spells, but we were fine throughout RotRL.
Not saying it doesnt happen, but it's not a problem at all tables below normal Adventure path range.
The devs say they dont see it either. But afaik they dont play that high either.
I ran a 3.5 campaign that went into lite epic levels without experiencing a breakdown, but first, it was fully homebrew sandbox, so I could roll with whatever crazy things the players did (and pit them against enemies who would exploit any magic in an equal but opposite way) and second, I went on to become a game designer working on Pathfinder, so I don't think it was a good example of a typical 1-22ish campaign in 3.5. Certainly it requires a great deal of flexibility and skill to make it work. In Pathfinder, my home group has never hit 20, but we have gone fairly high up in APs with some big optimizers, and it's tended to work out by using similar tactics and by buffing the encounters a lot (in some cases raising the number of foes or their CRs but in some cases just giving the encounters more diverisity, like changing a group of 8 hobgoblin fighter/rogues to have a mixture of different classes instead, though of the same level as written).
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Rather than worrying about what to prune from an ever increasing spell list (Because lets face it, its he exponential growth of spells coupled with maybe a half dozen that are way too powerful, id rather boost the martials in their own baliwick.
Give non spellcasters unchained skill unlocks for all class skills free and let any feats spent to provide a bonus to a skill count as ranks for unlocking the abilities
Compress a LOT of feat chains, by the time you're done a fighter with all his bonus feats should have near mastery in 2-3 fighting styles and be supreme in his main.
Specifically revamp combat maneuvers and how they work Dirty trick is actually REALLY good, but to get there is like a 4 feat chain. Unacceptable.
Combat expertise int req OR BaB +1: +2 to cmb and no AOO on maneuvers
Improved <maneuver>: Cool thing that greater maneuver used to do.
Quick Maneuver: Replace an attack roll with a maneuver check.
Done, stop throwing roadblocks at things that can make combat cooler, not just more efficient, but cooler.
Give martials tons of access to save or suck, save or stat damage, save or die crap, there's no reason they should be denied it and it makes perfect sense that if you mace someone in the knee just right they're going to take -4 to dex til it heals.
There is a ton that can be added to martials for QoL, that offers more than just "here's more hp damage" while not turning them into teleporters who control peoples minds.
It is an attack, just like a fireball...
...you make a reflex save to avoid damage. That's not an 'attack', so DR doesn't apply.
Wait, is something that's "reflex for half damage" an attack or not? Because you've said it both ways.
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I'm impressed, this thread is meandering through every hot-button topic that no one will ever agree upon. Is this a deliberate thing? Are we trying to overtake the monster threads?
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I'm impressed, this thread is meandering through every hot-button topic that no one will ever agree upon. Is this a deliberate thing? Are we trying to overtake the monster threads?
And what's the deal with Paladins?
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BARBARIAN GENERALLY SMITE GOBLIN BABIES AS COLLATERAL DAMAGE FROM RAGELANCEPOUNCE ON CASTY.
BARBARIAN CONSIDER THIS GOOD WAY TO BE HELPING BROTHER, WHO AM PALADIN, FROM DEALING WITH ETHICAL DILEMMA.
UPSIDE OF CHAOTIC NEUTRAL AM BARBARIAN NOT NEEDING CARE ABOUT DEEPER SOCIOETHICAL MORAL CONSEQUENCES OF ACTIONS.
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BARBARIAN GENERALLY SMITE GOBLIN BABIES AS COLLATERAL DAMAGE FROM RAGELANCEPOUNCE ON CASTY.
BARBARIAN CONSIDER THIS GOOD WAY TO BE HELPING BROTHER, WHO AM PALADIN, FROM DEALING WITH ETHICAL DILEMMA.
UPSIDE OF CHAOTIC NEUTRAL AM BARBARIAN NOT NEEDING CARE ABOUT DEEPER SOCIOETHICAL MORAL CONSEQUENCES OF ACTIONS.
"Mercy?! You wanted mercy?! I'M CHAOTIC NEUTRAAAAL!"
I'm impressed, this thread is meandering through every hot-button topic that no one will ever agree upon. Is this a deliberate thing? Are we trying to overtake the monster threads?And what's the deal with Paladins?
We also need to introduce something that involves delving really deep on the Magus's action economy and hand-use.
OK, if I remember right, SSalarn is one of the students of the Action Economy. If the Mega Gun isn't trained on you, get in here Double S.
We are gunning for you Kirthfinder Thread.
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FOR WHAT AM WORTH, BARBARIAN ALSO RUN BARBARIAN FINANCIAL, AM PREMIERE INVESTMENT FOR VOLATILE ACTION ECONOMY IN WAKE OF CONSTANT CHANGES AND UNCERTAINTY IN GOLARION.
AM ALREADY SUCCESSFULLY NAVIGATING MILLIONS OF ASPIRING MARTIAL CHARACTERS THROUGH TIME STOP BUBBLE THAT AM CAUSED BY CASTYS WITH QUICKEN GREATER METAMAGIC RODS THAT AM SERIOUSLY DEFLATING COST OF ROUND TO ATTEMPT FORCING OF LOWER REAL ESTATE PRICES FOR MOVE, STANDARD, SWIFT, AND FULL ACTIONS.
SITUATION AM STABLE NOW, BUT ONLY BECAUSE BARBARIAN FINANCIAL AM GOOD AT TAKING IMMEDIATE ACTION WHEN ECONOMY DICTATES.
MAKE ACTION ECONOMY WORK FOR YOU, WITH BARBARIAN FINANCIAL.
I've found that how far I've been able to go into epic levels depends entirely on how well I fleshed out the game world and how involved the PCs were up to that point. The first time which was at the campaign that was just a series of linked adventures in some dungeons and one particular mega dungeon quit soon after because the mega dungeon wasn't enough of a foundation to rest the epic encounters on. (As good as the dungeon was - a certain sleeping king)
The second time when the PCs were more invested in a world and the people in it; when the adventure was fought overground as much as under and I kept re-visiting these I'm different way by the time we reached epic level the PCs were invested in the setting. There was much more I could do to challenge them at that point because they had more to loose. Epic can definitely work but just expecting the numbers to do it alone isn't enough, numbers and plot are needed.
Regarding magic weapons for a class. I'm not a fan for the following reasons
- Firstly they take away the DMs opportunity to control loot, which is an important part of the role.
- Secondly when stacking with existing items like a magus or paladin does, it is gives that character better weapons than others of its level, particularly the ability to pen DR before everyone else. I don't think that's fair.
- Thirdly I don't agree with baking it into the class because players or DMs might want a non-magical basis for that class. Having a magic weapon from the get go for every martial could definitely spoil that.
Just my thoughts
Because they are setting the difficulty of the encounters and the appropriate rewards are also part of that responsibility. Because controlling loot is one way the DM can balance the abilities of various players to ensure the team remains as close to par as possible. Because magic items are a way of bringing history, background and verisimilitude to the game world. Because finding lost treasure and magic is one of the cornerstones of d&d.
Did you think it was a coincidence that magic items were found in the dungeon masters guide?
That's an absurdly arbitrary basis on which to approach the subject.
Giving the player some ability to ensure what they'll have access to gives them agency, and that's not really a bad thing. It's also not all that different from crafting items.
Did you think it was a coincidence that magic items were found in the dungeon masters guide?
Yes, a coincidence is probably a good word for it, considering the number of even CRB classes that were guaranteed access to magic items. Also, that practically every release thereafter has magic items as equipment, not in specific game mastering sections.
- Firstly they take away the DMs opportunity to control loot, which is an important part of the role.
This wouldn't alter that at all.
Secondly when stacking with existing items like a magus or paladin does, it is gives that character better weapons than others of its level, particularly the ability to pen DR before everyone else. I don't think that's fair.
How is that any different from any other class feature giving you a bonus to damage or attack rolls?
- Thirdly I don't agree with baking it into the class because players or DMs might want a non-magical basis for that class. Having a magic weapon from the get go for every martial could definitely spoil that.
This I do agree with.
Did you think it was a coincidence that magic items were found in the dungeon masters guide?
Opens CRB *sees magic items*
Opens GMG *Sees no magic items*PF doesn't agree with the mindset magic items are GM content.
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Welp, I guess they need to go through all the spells and include DR next to the SR.
- Firstly they take away the DMs opportunity to control loot, which is an important part of the role.
A lot of players will totally flip out if you say this, you're taking away their precious min/max options- heck people build entire characters around theoretical item uses- just look at some of the errata threads, it's like Paizo just killed their cat or something.
I remember being in a setting where the players were against some nasty oozes with various hints that more oozes were to come so I gave them an acid immune hammer that was bane: ooze. They promptly sold the hammer and bought some really dumb sword that probably dealt electric damage or something because "I don't have weapon focus for this".
Then I unleashed the black puddings and they were mad at me "How could throw something against us like this!?" they said taking 2d6 constrict and 2d6 acid every turn.
I don't care. You walk all over my items my monsters will walk all over you, you decision'd yourself into a hole and now you will deal with it.
GMs note: That sword was completely dissolved by said ooze in about 3 rounds.
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My personal flavor of high-level martial, mentioned above, is some of the better armored bosses from the Dark Souls games if you've ever played them. If not, look up some videos of fights with them, Sir Alonne, Sir Raime, Champion Gundyr, Orsntein and Artorias in particular. They still use the cornerstone of martials, bit with additional tricks and abilities that are still distinctly martial. That's what I tend to think of when I think 'high-powered martial'.When people talk about 'buffing martials', what exactly are they suggesting?
I see talk about One punch man, suggesting that letting high level fighters effectively fly and do thousands of HP of damage with one hit is about right...
Is there anything high level fighters shouldn't be able to do? It seems like vague suggestions at the moment, how about some more concrete proposals?
I second this, SO MUCH.
Dark Souls 1
Dark Souls 2
Dark Souls 3
The Nameless King (and King of Storms)
Sister Friede (and Father Ariandel)
Bloodborne
Paizo haven't given control over purchasing magic items to the players. In fact outside PFS, magic mart only exists to the extent the GM permits it. Crafting feats get round this sure. If the caster wants to use their feats for crafting that is their prerogative but the use of that will depend entirely on the amount of time the campaign allows and the circumstances. They do require access to a laboratory and/or workshop after all. Not very practical when sleeping rough in a dungeon. I would discuss with my player in advance whether using crafting feats was going to be practical for them.
Magic items are valuable, and most major cities have at least one or two purveyors of magic items, from a simple potion merchant to a weapon smith that specializes in magic swords. Of course, not every item in this book is available in every town.The following guidelines are presented to help GMs determine what items are available in a given community. These guidelines assume a setting with an average level of magic. Some cities might deviate wildly from these baselines, subject to GM discretion. The GM should keep a list of what items are available from each merchant and should replenish the stocks on occasion to represent new acquisitions.
The emphasis is mine. I think it is very clear that while Paizo fully intend the ability to purchase items to be available, but they still leave how and what in the DMs hands.
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They do require access to a laboratory and/or workshop after all. Not very practical when sleeping rough in a dungeon. I would discuss with my player in advance whether using crafting feats was going to be practical for them.
The magic item creation rules say nothing of the sort (and in fact say the opposite), though you're free to make up house rules to crush your players for daring to attempt to take agency away from the almighty God-GM. Remember, players are subhumans who exist purely for your amusement, and any delusions of equality must be swiftly and brutally crushed.
To go to what the rules actually say:
"The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items."
"If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night."
"Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster)."