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Does everyone realize we're just telling stories. Take a step back and remember that it's all just made up. The designers certainly don't care, half this stuff is just the things they made up in their living room.
Golarion isn't Pathfinder
Your Pathfinder isn't mine.
We get to pick whatever we want from whatever sources and use it to entertain ourselves and fellow players.
There is no heresy. Only new life
I love you all.
So a Demon Lord beat a god. Like I said. And level 20 full casters can beat demon lords. Seriously, what part do you not get?
The part where you think the word 'was' == 'is'.
Seriously, I don't understand that. Can you explain, grammatically speaking, how words that mean two different things somehow mean the same thing?
I think once you explain that, all will become clear.
You do know that when Lamashtu beat Curchanus she was a demon lord.
Therefore, in lore demon lords can beat gods.
Level 20 full casters can beat demon lords.
Therefore, in lore level 20 full casters can beat gods.
On the contrary, it says everything about it.Rule 0 says nothing about it.Sure: Rule 0.*Citation needed.Wrong, they are capable of everything.[
Without a stat block a god is incapable of doing anything.
From on GM to another let me assure you, on this subject Rule 0 is silent.
So a Demon Lord beat a god. Like I said. And level 20 full casters can beat demon lords. Seriously, what part do you not get?
The part where you think the word 'was' == 'is'.
Seriously, I don't understand that. Can you explain, grammatically speaking, how words that mean two different things somehow mean the same thing?
I think once you explain that, all will become clear.
You do know that when Lamashtu beat Curchanus she was a demon lord.
Therefore, in lore demon lords can beat gods.
Level 20 full casters can beat demon lords.
Therefore, in lore level 20 full casters can beat gods.
Do you have the play-by-play of the fight? Mechanically speaking...
I have provided more evidence supporting my argument than you have presented for yours. Show me any indication in lore that a god can one shot a level 20 full caster (not that would do anything but inconvenience them, but it's a start).
From one GM to another, Rule 0 talks to me all the time. Sometimes very loudly.
As far as Lamashtu beating Curchanus, there's not a lot of information on how, on exactly what happened and why it happened. Maybe someone will enlighten us, or it will be a mystery like the death of Aroden. Regardless, it's not a benchmark of what someone can do without a lot more data. It's a plot point.
Plot can slay anything and it's the only thing that can slay a god.
Let me assure you that it is not.
From on GM to another let me assure you, on this subject Rule 0 is silent.
*Popo voice*
Oh look a GM that doesn't know any better.
*Popo voice off*
Rule 0 only works if everyone agrees and clearly I do not agree.
I have provided more evidence supporting my argument than you have presented for yours. Show me any indication in lore that a god can one shot a level 20 full caster (not that would do anything but inconvenience them, but it's a start).Very well, let's have a contest. I'll be the DM playing a god, you can be any 20th level character you choose, with any amount of magic items.
I predict I will be able to kill you, permanently, in one hit. And you won't be able to point to any rule that contradicts me.
Do you disagree?
Yes, I deny rule 0 and it fails to work. Rule 0 only works if all the players agree.
Unfortunately Ozy, I also will be playing a god and I will protect Anzyr's 20th level caster, because when the gods want to make us suffer they answer our prayers.
And you get to leave the game. So that's not exactly denying it or playing.
Regardless, as pointed out above Iomedae barely tries in AP #77 and can deafen/blind/knock out PCs. If she actually wanted to kill them, it appears that it wouldn't matter about their level.
Who's talking about rule 0? I'm setting up a scenario. I'm playing a god, you're playing a 20th level character.Yes, I deny rule 0 and it fails to work. Rule 0 only works if all the players agree.I have provided more evidence supporting my argument than you have presented for yours. Show me any indication in lore that a god can one shot a level 20 full caster (not that would do anything but inconvenience them, but it's a start).Very well, let's have a contest. I'll be the DM playing a god, you can be any 20th level character you choose, with any amount of magic items.
I predict I will be able to kill you, permanently, in one hit. And you won't be able to point to any rule that contradicts me.
Do you disagree?
Ok, please cite the page of the ability the god is using to kill my character. If you cannot you are using rule 0, which will be denied.
[Popo]Enjoy the climb back up![/Popo]
Is a character without a universe dead? In which case does the DM leaving the table kill the character. If it doesn't, do all our characters - past, present and future -
still exist, silently screaming?
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I'm pretty sure rule 0 works even if the players don't agree.
I mean, one player's desire to play a Musket Master in my game doesn't overrule my decision that there are no guns around anywhere.
And you get to leave the game. So that's not exactly denying it or playing.
Regardless, as pointed out above Iomedae barely tries in AP #77 and can deafen/blind/knock out PCs. If she actually wanted to kill them, it appears that it wouldn't matter about their level.
You know most full casters can cure those ailments and ignore the damage being dealt casually right?
What is popo?
Who's talking about rule 0? I'm setting up a scenario. I'm playing a god, you're playing a 20th level character.Yes, I deny rule 0 and it fails to work. Rule 0 only works if all the players agree.I have provided more evidence supporting my argument than you have presented for yours. Show me any indication in lore that a god can one shot a level 20 full caster (not that would do anything but inconvenience them, but it's a start).Very well, let's have a contest. I'll be the DM playing a god, you can be any 20th level character you choose, with any amount of magic items.
I predict I will be able to kill you, permanently, in one hit. And you won't be able to point to any rule that contradicts me.
Do you disagree?
Ok, please cite the page of the ability the god is using to kill my character. If you cannot you are using rule 0, which will be denied.
[Popo]Enjoy the climb back up![/Popo]
? Obviously the statblock has to come from the GM since it doesn't exist. There are no rules limiting how I generate the statblock, so clearly anything in that statblock is de facto not in violation of the Pathfinder ruleset.
If my god has an (Ex) ability called 'Destroy Soul', well heck, that's just too bad for your character.
That is rule 0 and therefore I just deny it. I have a better idea, we'll pick a neutral GM to decide the contest. All Pathfinder sources are allowed, we'll both submit our sheets and than have a good old fashioned duel. I nominate kyrt-ryder as the GM. Just send him the gods sheet and we'll see if what you say is correct.
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You know most full casters can cure those ailments and ignore the damage being dealt casually right?And you get to leave the game. So that's not exactly denying it or playing.
Regardless, as pointed out above Iomedae barely tries in AP #77 and can deafen/blind/knock out PCs. If she actually wanted to kill them, it appears that it wouldn't matter about their level.
Well, the book says a that the conditions aren't curable save by a deity's will. I know you believe full casters are all powerful, but they aren't deities. Maybe they have one in their pocket?
What is popo?
We have passed the meme event horizon. It's all down hill from here
Well, the book says a that the conditions aren't curable save by a deity's will. I know you believe full casters are all powerful, but they aren't deities. Maybe they have one in their pocket?You know most full casters can cure those ailments and ignore the damage being dealt casually right?And you get to leave the game. So that's not exactly denying it or playing.
Regardless, as pointed out above Iomedae barely tries in AP #77 and can deafen/blind/knock out PCs. If she actually wanted to kill them, it appears that it wouldn't matter about their level.
Miracle.
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Denying Rule 0 isn't a thing. Well, unless you are packing your things to leave, at least at my table.
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If a level 20 character takes down a Demon Lord, the GM is phoning it in.
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You know most full casters can cure those ailments and ignore the damage being dealt casually right?And you get to leave the game. So that's not exactly denying it or playing.
Regardless, as pointed out above Iomedae barely tries in AP #77 and can deafen/blind/knock out PCs. If she actually wanted to kill them, it appears that it wouldn't matter about their level.
You really ARE being that guy, you know? If a god decides to kill a mortal.. it really is "Rocks Fall, You Die" type of scenario. They don't have to roll to hit, they don't have to roll SR, and they can pretty much ignore any kind of protection you think you have.
The reason Gods don't do this on a regular basis, is because mortals live on the material plane, and the Gods of Golarion have an unspoken level of a "hands off" mutual agreement regarding it, instead opting to act through proxies instead. Iomedae comes close to crossing that line, she might even do so, when she aids the heroes in Wrath of the Righteous, and she might be paying for it in Hell's Vengeance.
Ahh, YouTube illumined me.
I'm worried, very worried that that could be future of Pathfinder...
I don't LIKE the freakishly ridiculously powerful 'these are unapproachable entities that still possess personalities that cannot be killed nor can they be surpassed' narrative Paizo provides.
I mean, that's why rule 0 is important. If you want to run "let's beat up Pharasma" as a campaign premise, nobody at Paizo is going to come to your house and make you stop.
The only person who can make these "how can the PCs beat up Pharasma" calls is the GM, however.
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Miracle.Well, the book says a that the conditions aren't curable save by a deity's will. I know you believe full casters are all powerful, but they aren't deities. Maybe they have one in their pocket?You know most full casters can cure those ailments and ignore the damage being dealt casually right?And you get to leave the game. So that's not exactly denying it or playing.
Regardless, as pointed out above Iomedae barely tries in AP #77 and can deafen/blind/knock out PCs. If she actually wanted to kill them, it appears that it wouldn't matter about their level.
Miracle is a request from a deity. Which is leaving it the GM's hands that whatever power providing this energy wants to intervene on your behalf for being a prat to another god. i wouldn't give it good odds, given that is dragging them into a pissing contest with another major power.
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Denying Rule 0 isn't a thing. Well, unlessyouI areI am packingyourmy things to leave,at least at my tableand you are now the groups GM.
I replace such GMs.
Are gods and DMs the only ones who can create artifacts?
Kyrt? What's your view on major Artefacts?
Miracle is a request from a deity. Which is leaving it the GM's hands that whatever power providing this energy wants to intervene on your behalf for being a prat to another god. i wouldn't give it good odds, given that is dragging them into a pissing contest with another major power.Miracle.Well, the book says a that the conditions aren't curable save by a deity's will. I know you believe full casters are all powerful, but they aren't deities. Maybe they have one in their pocket?You know most full casters can cure those ailments and ignore the damage being dealt casually right?And you get to leave the game. So that's not exactly denying it or playing.
Regardless, as pointed out above Iomedae barely tries in AP #77 and can deafen/blind/knock out PCs. If she actually wanted to kill them, it appears that it wouldn't matter about their level.
Alternatively, the caster could just dismiss their Astral Projection and recast it.
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Denying Rule 0 isn't a thing. Well, unlessyouI areI am packingyourmy things to leave,at least at my tableand you are now the groups GM.I replace such GMs.
That would be interesting to see. Also, disagreeing isn't being a bad GM. But you would be welcome to take over if you wish .. well, and if the rest of the table agrees.
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And I personally could not give less of a s%*% about this, the world's most pointless dick measuring contest.
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And I'm sure GMs replace 'such players' more often.Denying Rule 0 isn't a thing. Well, unlessyouI areI am packingyourmy things to leave,at least at my tableand you are now the groups GM.I replace such GMs.
You would be surprised I think how many GMs players will replace when someone else is willing to do it.
Alternatively, the caster could just dismiss their Astral Projection and recast it.Miracle is a request from a deity. Which is leaving it the GM's hands that whatever power providing this energy wants to intervene on your behalf for being a prat to another god. i wouldn't give it good odds, given that is dragging them into a pissing contest with another major power.Miracle.Well, the book says a that the conditions aren't curable save by a deity's will. I know you believe full casters are all powerful, but they aren't deities. Maybe they have one in their pocket?You know most full casters can cure those ailments and ignore the damage being dealt casually right?And you get to leave the game. So that's not exactly denying it or playing.
Regardless, as pointed out above Iomedae barely tries in AP #77 and can deafen/blind/knock out PCs. If she actually wanted to kill them, it appears that it wouldn't matter about their level.
Because Iomedae couldn't strike your real body if she wanted? Or dismiss you from Her presence. Or destroy all your clones? I mean, if Gods are really just uber casters -- and uber casters are so uber -- you are well and truly screwed.
You would be surprised I think how many GMs players will replace when someone else is willing to do it.And I'm sure GMs replace 'such players' more often.Denying Rule 0 isn't a thing. Well, unlessyouI areI am packingyourmy things to leave,at least at my tableand you are now the groups GM.I replace such GMs.
At level 20 I'm not surprised, probably just for the chance to start at level 1 again blessedly.