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Not particularly.
The key problem here is that guns are not very good unless you are a gunslinger.... and a gunslinger gets dex to damage. So the only reason they don't dump str is because guns are heavy. And the axe seems more str focused.
Maybe that one that is also a dagger might work... if you spent the time to grab slashing grace. Which you don't because gunslingers are heavily archery focused. The two styles are just too feat hungry at first to mix well
So while the boxes are checked... they are jsut far out of eachother's reach that almost no one uses them.
Another note- I am pretty sure that piercing damage originated as some kind of nerf that got grandfathered in from d&d. Little has DR/piercing (at least without slashing too). And piercing is on a lot of nerfable stuff- bows (very strong in this system), longspear (best 2 handed simple weapon), rapiers (one of the best dex weapons rogues get), etc.
Yes.
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Okay, that's subjective but I think it is at least the most versatile weapon.
You have a range (projectile) and melee combo weapon that does all three damage types.
It's bludgeoning and piercing at range (which also happens to be a touch attack).
It's a slashing melee weapon. Pistol Whip or using it as an improvised weapon gives you a bludgeoning melee attack.
Throw Anything adds slashing as an option for range and makes it both a projectile weapon and a thrown weapon.The only thing missing is melee piercing damage.
Also, while considered a double weapon (for various reasons), you can't use it for two weapon fighting but you can use it two-handed for extra (melee) damage.I don't think any other weapon comes even close to ticking quite so many boxes.
Lousy crit range.
Has to be reloaded as a full round action if used for range.10% misfire
Requires a specific class for stat-to-damage on ranged attacks
Ammunition can get expensive
Has to be enchanted as a double weapon
No, the axe musket is not a good weapon, let alone the best.
You want a weapon that deals works in both melee and ranged, use the Sharding property.
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You know how expensive magic weapons are? ok, given that an axe musket costs 1600 gp, plus powder and ammo, a sharding weapon might not be that expensive, but still... it is a plus 2 property, in addition to the actual plus of the weapon... that's gonna make one REALLY expensive item.
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You know how expensive magic weapons are? ok, given that an axe musket costs 1600 gp, plus powder and ammo, a sharding weapon might not be that expensive, but still... it is a plus 2 property, in addition to the actual plus of the weapon... that's gonna make one REALLY expensive item.
There is always a returning weapon or a blinkback belt.
I went with sharding as comparable to the cost of enchanting a double weapon.
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Only if it is a musket that shoots axes.
With a few minor enchantments, it can shoot flaming axes.
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Only if it is a musket that shoots axes.
... now I really want to see that weapon statted.
In all seriousness, the Axe Musket's usefulness is purely hypothetical. Firearms are extremely niche weapons in Pathfinder that only appeal to an narrow set of character builds that have little use for strength. It has literally no useful applications and is simply a less effective musket. Or, put another way: any character who wants to use a musket doesn't want to use an axe, and any character who wants to use an axe doesn't want to use a musket.
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Corolarry: unless your name is Squall and/or you want to be a SEED. Then an axemusket is right up your alley.
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My Pathfinder Society character, Wyatt the Branded Bastard, is inspired and built entirely around the axe musket. Before that it was fire lances.
You shoot it once, howl at the moon, then go hack people to bits. No problem.
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The only thing missing is melee piercing damage.
Bayonet
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The only thing missing is melee piercing damage.Bayonet
And then give it one of those magic scopes and bam, the birth of the fantasy tacti-cool gun.
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As far the basic weapon statistics go, the halfling sling staff is more useful by using Str to damage for both ranged and melee, as well as having a longer range increment (note: the axe musket, as an early firearm, only targets touch AC in the first range increment).
Unfortunately, the sling staff gets even less rule love than the sling. Unless the GM allows the Warslinger alternate racial trait, Rapid Reload, or Ammo Drop to work with the sling staff, there isn't any way to reduce the loading time.
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It's a good weapon. High STR low Dex dudes love it: hit them in the face HARD with the axe, and still CLIP them in the arse as they flee thanks to the easy to hit ranged touch attack. Improved Critical is a must. Add the enchantment thingy that lets you morph that weapon into any other weapon and you're off to the races!
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As far the basic weapon statistics go, the halfling sling staff is more useful by using Str to damage for both ranged and melee, as well as having a longer range increment (note: the axe musket, as an early firearm, only targets touch AC in the first range increment).
Unfortunately, the sling staff gets even less rule love than the sling. Unless the GM allows the Warslinger alternate racial trait, Rapid Reload, or Ammo Drop to work with the sling staff, there isn't any way to reduce the loading time.
Yeah I was supringly good with a sling in a pathfinder society with my first level brawler doing secondmost damage to a caster boss spider climbed up on a wall and channeling negative energy damage with several higher level characters. Although slings are nice if you have high strength relatively low dex and cannot use a longbow for some reason. Also much cheaper ammo.
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I thought the Shadow Run Shotgun with under-barrel bolo launcher (with exploding balls) was the ultimate weapon.
MDC
I've heard that shotguns can often involve exploding balls.
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Melee weapon? On my gunslinger? And having to play a Musket Master over my Mysterious Stranger Gun Twirling TWF Double Pistol Gunslinger/Paladin? I might as well be throw pebbles at my enemies!
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I don't know if this is legal, but if you get a multiclass of fighter+gunslinger and both classes focus on axe musket don't those bonuses stack for all it's attack forms?
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I don't know if this is legal, but if you get a multiclass of fighter+gunslinger and both classes focus on axe musket don't those bonuses stack for all it's attack forms?
Not the Gunslinger's Dex-to-Damage, as that is only for firing the weapon. However, Weapon Training is debatable, as the axe component works as a battleaxe.
You could argue it either way.
So, while I don't think it was intended, you could make the argument that a Musket Master's Musket Training would add Dex to damage with both parts of the weapon.
While I do appreciate the munchkin rules-lawyering and am already snickering at what that character build would look like, I don't think it works. When used as a melee weapon the axe musket is treated as a battleaxe and does not count as a firearm, so only the musket component should benefit from musket training.
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Go high STR fighter for this one (weapon specialization, weapon training, etc. to pile on the damage from both ends).
I would avoid the mire that is gunslinger: if you go to the trouble to take the gunslinger class your are in effect sentenced to put everything in DEX and use pistols or muskets or double-barreled muskets or dragon pistols, etc. depending on build (i.e. to *just shoot* all day... forget melee)
Axe Musket and other melee smashy things like this are for melee STR characters that just shoot once in a while.
Unfortunately, the sling staff gets even less rule love than the sling. Unless the GM allows the Warslinger alternate racial trait, Rapid Reload, or Ammo Drop to work with the sling staff, there isn't any way to reduce the loading time.
Wouldn't the Warslinger alternative racial trait generally be allowed, because there's an entire style tree (Slipslinger Style) that requires it as a prerequisite? Slipslinger Style also has the side effect of fixing the "reload" problem for sling staffs, since it lets you treat them as slings.
I would avoid the mire that is gunslinger
If you're not going Gunslinger, why bother with the firearm in the first place? Spend the feat on Quick Draw instead of proficiency with firearms and use throwing axes instead. You'll deal more damage and get to avoid the annoying downsides of firearms. You don't get touch to AC, but if opponents are close enough for you to actually get that bonus then they're within charge range anyways.
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Geat Wyrm Red Dragon (before buffs) is Touch AC 0 vs. regular AC of 39.
There will be beasts that a martial can't hit, so if you've pooled your feats in an axe that's also a boomstick, this can come in handy!
Edit: also I will add that I made the commend of avoiding gunslinger in reference to the axe musket... I have played a gunslinger before and he was deadly, but you *do* need to pool it all in DEX to make it so. I maintain that if you go melee STR, axe musket is a decent concept that lets you make ranged attacks while letting you completely dump on DEX (i.e. it is advised to wear very heavy armor... :) )
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seeing that the axe musket has double weapon language in its description, that's probably how I'd treat it in a home game (not sure about the official / PFS campaigns treat it, but have the martial just eat the TWF penalties of -4/-8 during the rounds is *BLAM!*ing foes with the musket end... i.e. treat the shooting end as light)
I mean, to heck with the feat as it's probably a low dex high str martial...
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A high level martial could also replace their third or fourth attack (that rarely hit) with an easy touch attack.
Actually now that I'm reading this again, you're right! it's the *SAME WEAPON*... you can in effect switch from one end to the other between iterative attacks without TWF! (kinda like the rondelero duelist does between his falcata and buckler when he gets that ability...)
So, while I don't think it was intended, you could make the argument that a Musket Master's Musket Training would add Dex to damage with both parts of the weapon.
Seems a legit way to get str and dex to damage, albeit cheesey use of RAW.
Using the axe in melee would be handy, though what sort of investment would you need to deal with reloading? A beneficial bandolier would be a great magic item but it takes up the all important belt slot.
It'd be nice to have a one use touch resolved attack in the pocket of a fighter for certain situations.
Geat Wyrm Red Dragon (before buffs) is Touch AC 0 vs. regular AC of 39.
AC 39 is nothing special at CR 22. You should be able to hit that on a roll of 2 with your first iterative anyways. In terms of damage, your +5 Axe Musket deals 1d8+5 damage against that Great Wyrm's 449 HP. This isn't worth a 10% chance of giving your weapon the broken condition.
A high level martial could also replace their third or fourth attack (that rarely hit) with an easy touch attack.
That works just fine, although as mentioned the meager amount of damage isn't worth the 10% chance of breaking your weapon.
Unfortunately, the sling staff gets even less rule love than the sling. Unless the GM allows the Warslinger alternate racial trait, Rapid Reload, or Ammo Drop to work with the sling staff, there isn't any way to reduce the loading time.Wouldn't the Warslinger alternative racial trait generally be allowed, because there's an entire style tree (Slipslinger Style) that requires it as a prerequisite? Slipslinger Style also has the side effect of fixing the "reload" problem for sling staffs, since it lets you treat them as slings.
<looks>
The Slipslinger Style feat will actually "fix" the reloading issue with a sling staff, but you have to eat two feats (or one feat and have enough levels in a class that grants Weapon Training), which is a pretty high cost for the benefit.
It does make for an interesting halfling warpriest, though.
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Dasrak, the dragon is 39 while naked... better than a naked human which is between 10 and 20 depending on dex/dodge. Add rings, amulets, spells, bracers or whatever else the most powerful dragon in the game should have, and I think you'll be happy to shoot vs. Touch AC 'zero plus magic' once in a while.
Also, as Knight who says Meh said, you're forgetting feats, special ammo, etc. But I think the biggest thing we forget here is that weapon spec., greater weapon spec., weapon focus, greater weapon focus, improved critical, critical focus, blinding critical feats, etc. applies to both the axe and musket ends. It's serious feat economy if you ask me. Also, weapon enchants apply to both ends... pretty darn nice... choose those that apply to both melee and ranged weapons. You can also use that thing TH for serious power attack add-on.
Because of the amazing feat economy and huge bonus to attacks, the challenge becomes finding ways to pile on more damage. Special ammo can bridge that gap (i.e. if you fight X, load with X bane bullets, add all feats, rinse, lather, repeat)
To give the whole party a boost of damage against a boss, fire one of these babies on the BBEG's low arse Touch AC...
Then sit back, enjoy the show as the party vanquishes the bad guy, and profit! :P
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Weapon enchantments do not apply to both. You enchant each "weapon" separately like a double weapon.
Musket, Axe: This musket features an axe blade at the end of its barrel. It can be used as both a musket and a battleaxe. It is considered a double weapon for purposes of creating masterwork or magical versions of this weapon. If this firearm gains the broken condition, both the firearm component and the axe are considered broken. An axe musket uses either a bullet and a single dose of black powder or an alchemical cartridge as ammunition.
Oh, thanks for catching that. Still worth it IMO as feats dually apply! :P
I don't know if this is legal, but if you get a multiclass of fighter+gunslinger and both classes focus on axe musket don't those bonuses stack for all it's attack forms?
Yes, No, and Maybe, depending on what exactly you're talking about.
Geat Wyrm Red Dragon (before buffs) is Touch AC 0 vs. regular AC of 39.AC 39 is nothing special at CR 22. You should be able to hit that on a roll of 2 with your first iterative anyways. In terms of damage, your +5 Axe Musket deals 1d8+5 damage against that Great Wyrm's 449 HP. This isn't worth a 10% chance of giving your weapon the broken condition.
A high level martial could also replace their third or fourth attack (that rarely hit) with an easy touch attack.That works just fine, although as mentioned the meager amount of damage isn't worth the 10% chance of breaking your weapon.
And it can be removed as a standard action if you possess the quick clear deed, or as a move if you spend a grit.
The broken condition honestly isn't that bad (-2 to attack rolls and can only crit like a natural weapon).
Now two missfires in a row renders the weapon useless (since it's an early era gun), as with any firearm of it's category.
Also, that 1d8+5 comes with a very tasty x4 crit multiplier
while considered a double weapon (for various reasons), you can't use it for two weapon fighting but you can use it two-handed for extra (melee) damage.Hmm..?
Musket, Axe: This musket features an axe blade at the end of its barrel. It can be used as both a musket and a battleaxe. It is considered a double weapon for purposes of creating masterwork or magical versions of this weapon. If this firearm gains the broken condition, both the firearm component and the axe are considered broken. An axe musket uses either a bullet and a single dose of black powder or an alchemical cartridge as ammunition.A battleaxe is a one handed weapon...
Firearms are further divided into one-handed, two-handed, and siege firearms. As the category's name implies, one-handed firearms need only one hand to wield and shoot. Two-handed firearms work best when you use two-hands while shooting them. Two-handed firearms can be shot with one hand at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. Siege weapons are typically mounted on some sort of platform, movable or otherwise, and have greater power but a much slower rate of fire—they're detailed in their own section.I think you can dual wield axe muskets.
I don't know if this is legal, but if you get a multiclass of fighter+gunslinger and both classes focus on axe musket don't those bonuses stack for all it's attack forms?Yes, No, and Maybe, depending on what exactly you're talking about.
Okay, you have Alex Axe Musket. He is a Fighter 5/Gunslinger 5.
The Fighter side of Alex chooses the Firearms for his Weapon Training.
The Gunslinger side of Alex chooses the AM for his Gun Training
You shoot the AM. You get +1/+1 for the fighter thingo and +dex mod on damage for the gunslinger thingo.
Then when you chop someone with the AM and you get +1/+1 for the fighter thingo but the gunslinger doesn't add anything.
Now grits... most of them say 'firearm attack'. AM is a firearm and you're attacking with it.