hello everyone. i need some advice. so i need to make a new character for Saturday and was thinking about rolling up a gun class. but the options are many! here are some i'm considering.
Spellslinger wizard 1/Eldritch archer magus 19
pros: two free guns from wizard and magus* (*range weapon arcane bond)
cons: nothing to benefit shooting besides adding spells to shots.
Dune Drifter 20
pros: feel like a badass with a hat and guns, gain deeds and feats to add shooting.
cons: apparently challenge doesn't work with guns, which seems to be a oversight, under Ol'Reliable it states At 11th level, whenever a Dune drifter declares a challenge, the threat range of the dune drifter's firearm is doubled against the target of his challenge. it seems to claim that challenge and guns work together, or i'm i wrong?
Musket master 20 or pistolero 20
pros: lots of damage, dex to damage, and all deeds, lots of feats to aid shooting.
cons: not much else besides shooting.
note: i left out other gun classes like trophy hunter, holy gun, steel hound,etc because i haven't heard of any good build with them, though if someone knows of any good builds i would be interested
are people sure that challenge doesn't work with guns? under Ol'Reliable it states At 11th level, whenever a Dune drifter declares a challenge, the threat range of the dune drifter's firearm is doubled against the target of his challenge. it seems to claim that challenge and guns work together
The first one is the best, hands down. It has spellcasting advantages on top of everything else and will crap out way more damage then every other firearm build out there. It also saves you from having to take grit feats that are otherwise useless. Look up a spell called Named Bullet.
Also trench fighter 3 is the best way to get dex to damage for any class using firearms.
Challenge only benefits melee attacks. Dune Drifter does not change this at all. You are wrong in that sense.
Post-errata Pistolero and Musket Master both suck. Avoid.
they were errataed? what happend?The first one is the best, hands down. It has spellcasting advantages on top of everything else and will crap out way more damage then every other firearm build out there. It also saves you from having to take grit feats that are otherwise useless. Look up a spell called Named Bullet.
Also trench fighter 3 is the best way to get dex to damage for any class using firearms.
Challenge only benefits melee attacks. Dune Drifter does not change this at all. You are wrong in that sense.
Post-errata Pistolero and Musket Master both suck. Avoid.
Signature Deed was reduced to 1/round and they went through and disallowed a bunch of the deeds from working with it for extra suckage. Because gunslingers have so little grit to work with it's almost criminal, that nerf made them extra useless overall. Pistolero especially, as Up Close and Deadly was pretty much their only way of getting decent damage at higher levels.
Post-errata Pistolero and Musket Master both suck. Avoid.Though musket master remains the only way to reload a musket as a free action.
So? Being able to full attack shouldn't be the defining feature of a class.
I like the idea of an Eldritch Knight. Half Lf Witch for Bonded Witch Archetype for the Gun. Then just use buff spells at your pleasure.
Signature Deed was reduced to 1/round and they went through and disallowed a bunch of the deeds from working with it for extra suckage. Because gunslingers have so little grit to work with it's almost criminal, that nerf made them extra useless overall. Pistolero especially, as Up Close and Deadly was pretty much their only way of getting decent damage at higher levels.they were errataed? what happend?The first one is the best, hands down. It has spellcasting advantages on top of everything else and will crap out way more damage then every other firearm build out there. It also saves you from having to take grit feats that are otherwise useless. Look up a spell called Named Bullet.
Also trench fighter 3 is the best way to get dex to damage for any class using firearms.
Challenge only benefits melee attacks. Dune Drifter does not change this at all. You are wrong in that sense.
Post-errata Pistolero and Musket Master both suck. Avoid.
In my opinion musketmaster and pistolero are still better than vanilla gunslinger for their respective guns, and I'd argue that the gunslinger in general get's the most consistent damage of any character due to targetting touch AC without having to deal with spell resistance. I do, however, also agree in bailing on gunsliger after you get dex to damage. There are a lot of fun multiclassing options for a gunslinger, my favorites, if you're playing in a game that allows them, are urban barbarian for dexterity rage, and vivisectionist alchemist for sneak attack, extracts and mutagen. alchemists with bombs can get some neat tricks also, I think grenadier let's you shoot your bombs out of your gun.
If you go spell slinger I'd recomend picking up amateur gunslinger for quick clear.
Signature Deed was reduced to 1/round and they went through and disallowed a bunch of the deeds from working with it for extra suckage. Because gunslingers have so little grit to work with it's almost criminal, that nerf made them extra useless overall. Pistolero especially, as Up Close and Deadly was pretty much their only way of getting decent damage at higher levels.they were errataed? what happend?The first one is the best, hands down. It has spellcasting advantages on top of everything else and will crap out way more damage then every other firearm build out there. It also saves you from having to take grit feats that are otherwise useless. Look up a spell called Named Bullet.
Also trench fighter 3 is the best way to get dex to damage for any class using firearms.
Challenge only benefits melee attacks. Dune Drifter does not change this at all. You are wrong in that sense.
Post-errata Pistolero and Musket Master both suck. Avoid.
In my opinion musketmaster and pistolero are still better than vanilla gunslinger for their respective guns, and I'd argue that the gunslinger in general get's the most consistent damage of any character due to targetting touch AC without having to deal with spell resistance. I do, however, also agree in bailing on gunsliger after you get dex to damage. There are a lot of fun multiclassing options for a gunslinger, my favorites, if you're playing in a game that allows them, are urban barbarian for dexterity rage, and vivisectionist alchemist for sneak attack, extracts and mutagen. alchemists with bombs can get some neat tricks also, I think grenadier let's you shoot your bombs out of your gun.
If you go spell slinger I'd recomend picking up amateur gunslinger for quick clear.
I agree that they're better than vanilla gunslinger, but that's not saying much. Also Gunslinger damage isn't that great, even with hitting off Touch AC but that's an entirely different discussion going into why guns suck and why a twenty level class to make them not suck is flawed from the beginning.
If you're interested in purely dex-to-damage then the best investment is Trench Fighter for 3 levels. Grenadier can apply alchemical items to their attacks, but not their bombs. So they can shoot alchemist fire out of their gun.
Amateur Gunslinger is unnecessary for a Spellslinger because jury-rig and mend are both first level spells. Jury-rig even has a standard action cast time.
sorry for the VERY late relpy!
i have decided to try the Spellslinger 1/Eldritch Archer 19 build. though i have few questions about it.
1) which would be better. a Human or a Tiefling? i know humans give you that wonderful extra feats. but Tieflings have good scores and some neat alternate abilities.
2) what feats should i take? i know archery feats area must. do i need amateur gunslinger for quick clear, or would the jury-rig spell be okay? (shame i can't cast mending as a cantrip :( )
3) any good builds out there for this?
4)Pistol or Musket?
5) just double checking, but can i get a new gun when i take Eldritch Archer through range weapon bond if i already have a gun for spellslinger? think about getting a double barrel gun.
All, IMO:
1) I'd lean toward tiefling so as to take the Prehensile Tail alternate racial trait (to hold a pistol while reloading with TWF)
2) You can take mending (as well as another 0-level sorcerer/wizard spell) with Spell Blending as your magus arcana at wizard (spellslinger) 1/magus (eldritch archer) 3; alternately, you can take the Magical Talent trait (if your group uses traits) to gain mending as a SLA 1/day
3) High Dex and Int, Rapid Reload, alchemical cartridges (with at least 1 rank in Craft (Alchemy) to make them yourself), Reach Spellstrike (at magus 9), and archery feats (possibly TWF/ITWF, as well) about covers it
4) I'd lean toward pistol (because of 1)
5) Arcane Gun and Ranged Weapon Bond have different effects, so they should both work; personally, I'd go with a single Arcane Gun (for the x3 critical when casting ray spells) and Ranged Weapon Bond with a second one (because of 1)
sorry for the VERY late relpy!
i have decided to try the Spellslinger 1/Eldritch Archer 19 build. though i have few questions about it.1) which would be better. a Human or a Tiefling? i know humans give you that wonderful extra feats. but Tieflings have good scores and some neat alternate abilities.
2) what feats should i take? i know archery feats area must. do i need amateur gunslinger for quick clear, or would the jury-rig spell be okay? (shame i can't cast mending as a cantrip :( )
3) any good builds out there for this?
4)Pistol or Musket?
5) just double checking, but can i get a new gun when i take Eldritch Archer through range weapon bond if i already have a gun for spellslinger? think about getting a double barrel gun.
1)This is really up to you, Dragonchess player does have a good idea though.
2)I like amateur gunslinger because you can quick clear as many times per day as you like without using limited spell slots, if you really need to you can spend grit to clear it as a move action, but it could block you from using the deed again.
3)Probably, but I can't help on this one.
4)I lean towards pistol because you can reload it as a free action with alchemical cartriges.
5)I guess you can, seems like a plain old wizard can get a gun this way, since there is no restriction on the type of weapon. I probably wouldn't allow this if I were GMing, because getting two free guns seems over the top to me.