Framing the PCs

[aliasday]

My players are finishing up Thistletop in the next week or two and I was thinkg of having them start The Skinsaw Murders by being blamed/framed for the initial murders. Has anyone else done this or have any thoughts?

I'm planning on having the Mercantile League throw them a fancy dinner party as thanks for saving the town and as a way to introduce them to the noble houses there since I haven't done much of it yet. I'd like a Scarnetti to have a crush on the female druid (also to have more than 1 suspect for the lust notes) but Titus does not like this and when the murders starts he blames the PCs. After the party, everyone goes their own ways and that's the same night the murders start. The wizard with a tongue of gold has been regularly seeing Shayliss unbeknownst to her father so if she doesn't vouch for him that night he will look pretty suspicious. So it's looking like Deverin, Kaijitsu, and Sheriff Hemlock will be on the side of the PCs but Scarnetti, Valdemar, and Vin will be against. Problems I'm seeing will be possibly splitting the party if some are jailed and others aren't. Also, how will they get access to the crime scene?

Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated.

[theinfelix]

I like the idea of framing the PCs in general, but you've run into the same problems I was having when trying to make it work.

With that said, I think having a few PCs arrested and "interrogating" those in prison while the others sneak into the crime scene to investigate it sounds like a fun session for both groups. While it sucks to split the party, at least they won't be in combat.

You'd have to create your own scenario to spring the imprisoned party members of have them develop a good enough alibi for the party to move forward. I like the idea of the party having to stay one step ahead of the Sandpoint guards to clear their names of the murder though.

Let us know what you do!

[dragonhunterq]

My one reservation with plots like this is that in many respects you want the players to care about Sandpoint, to protect it and want to return to it. If you alienate them from the town you may undermine that motivation to do so later on.
It is not a bad idea. It is a fine line to tread though and only you know your players. For mine I couldn't push so hard that any PCs end up in jail or they'd likely move on. Being questioned, shadowed or actively harassed by a faction would probably be fine though.

If there is a prison break how do you envision them regaining the trust of Hemlock or pretty much anyone? jail breaks are usually seen as a bad thing even if you are later proved innocent.

[Latrecis]

dragonhunterq wrote:

My one reservation with plots like this is that in many respects you want the players to care about Sandpoint, to protect it and want to return to it. If you alienate them from the town you may undermine that motivation to do so later on.

It is not a bad idea. It is a fine line to tread though and only you know your players. For mine I couldn't push so hard that any PCs end up in jail or they'd likely move on. Being questioned, shadowed or actively harassed by a faction would probably be fine though.

If there is a prison break how do you envision them regaining the trust of Hemlock or pretty much anyone? jail breaks are usually seen as a bad thing even if you are later proved innocent.

Exactly! These sorts of plots always sound way more interesting to GMs then they do to players, who may bear all kinds of resentment toward the NPC's and even the GM. The players know they're innocent and the evidence here is six ways from flimsy.

Why wouldn't Shayliss defend her lover? Was he with her when the murders happened? She has every motivation to find the real killer and if she knows her lover is innocent...

The pc's have a good store of political capital with the town given what they've done so far. It should take more than tragedy and the ravings of Vin and plotting of the mistrusted Titus to turn that.

What ties them to the murders anyway? A note with one of their names on it at the scene? The fact they are newly crowned heroes suggests their fame is motivating whoever is writing the notes - not the pc's are categorically insane in a self-incriminating way.

I would suggest following the inference in the AP and use your circumstances to encourage/pressure an investigation. Hemlock: "I'm pretty sure you boys had nothing to do with this but... Well there's the note and people are skittish now what with the goblins and all. And now Titus and Vin are running their mouths... If we don't have a real culprit soon, Mayor Deverin and I are going to have to do something..." Hint, hint: go solve this thing or I may have to throw you in jail just to keep the peace.

Also note: Hemlock has been the baddest man in town for quite a while but not anymore. He should recognize this. A group of 4th level pc's vs Hemlock and the guards probably ends badly for the guards. And likely for the pc's too - it's all well and good to become familiar with non-lethal rules but it only takes one slip or mistake and bam! someone dies. One dead guard and the pc's are probably persona non grata with Sandpoint from then on.

Not to be the judgmental old dinosaur (too late!) but this is the kind of thing that leads to another post in about two weeks: I tried to frame my players for the murders - I thought it would be fun for them to run a jail break. But the chaotic neutral rogue didn't want to go to prison and he stabbed a guard to escape. When the other guards started shooting him with crossbows, the wizard used color spray to stun them but the rogue coup de grace'd one or two before other guards showed up and they both fled into the hinterlands. Now, half the players are mad at the other players, they're all mad at me and I know the town should issue arrest warrants. How do I fix this and get them back to the AP?"

[aliasday]

So it took a little longer to finish off Thistletop than I thought and then there were the holidays so they just started Skinsaw a couple of weeks ago. It's been working out pretty well. I don't think there are spoilers below but still, it's best not to read if you want to avoid spoilers.

I started off with a thank you dinner for the heroes at the Scarnetti Manor (Kaijitsus were still cleaning house, Deverins had too many guests already, and Old Man Valdemar was too sick to host) where they met the whole Scarnetti family (Titus and Portia and kids Julius, Cornelius, and Flavia). His Lordship, Julius was showing an interest in one of the PCs (the female Gnomish druid) which his parents did not approve of. Also in attendance was His Lordship Belven Valdemar (who also showed interest in the female Gnomish druid as she was fond of woodworking), Ameiko Kaijutsu and her friend Shalelu Andosana (who was interested in another of the PCs), Kendra Deverin with her brother, Paul, and sister-in-law Vana, Ven Vidner and his wife Solsta, and Father Zantus. After some intense dinner conversation about Mayor Deverin's reelection campaign, and Titus Scarnetti trying to get Ameiko to sell the glassworks to him, the PCs cut out early since they all had dates that night.
The next day, Sheriff Hemlock asked them to willing come with him as there had been a murder and they were suspects. On the way, he confided with them that he didn't suspect them but there were a few things linking them to the murder. 1) One victim had a symbol carved on his chest that matched the symbol on the amulet one of the PCs had been wearing around town. 2) There was a note with one of the PCs names at the crime scene. 3) the Scarnettis were publicly accusing them and Hemlock had to at least interrogate them and find out if they had alibis. 2 of the PCs were good, but 1 had been hooking up with Shayliss Vidner and her parents still hadn't discovered them. Luckily (it literally came down to a roll) he had been good enough to her that she came and vouched for his whereabouts.
They still weren't allowed around the crime scene so they did some investigating of their own and got most of the information in the book, plus some info on the Scarnettis. They ran into a drunk farmer at the Hagfish raving about monsters in the farms to the south so they investigated that and while they were gone, the murderer struck again. The Scarnettis were really trying to pin it on them but once they told Hemlock what they've discovered, he let them go and told them to find proof. Before they leave, Madame Mvashti contacts them and tells them what she's seen about the Misgivings. She also gives them a Varisian magic item that translates to "Soul Siphon" to help them.
I've had a lot of fun with this as a DM and they seem to be enjoying themselves as well. They're not as stabby as they've been in the past so that's good. Basically I accomplished my goals of wanting to throw them off the scent a bit and make things a little more difficult. They all have love interests in town and really don't like the Scarnettis who they now suspect of trying to take out Ameiko so they can control the Glassworks. There's also another factor of the Titus trying to stop Mayor Deverin from winning reelection. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do about the Scarnettis in future chapters.