RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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So, I just want to make sure I'm correct on this one...
Warpriest Class Deck Oloch has an ability that allows him to display either a blessing or a spell to add 1 (later 2) to his check, and then recharge these cards at the end of his turn. However, the wording of his power is significantly different from the wording on S&S Oloch and on Class Deck Amli, leading me to believe that his power is SIGNIFICANTLY stronger. Let's examine them:
When you attempt a check, you may display any number of blessings and spells; for each card displayed, add 1 ([ ] 2) to your check. Before you reset your hand, recharge the displayed cards.
When another character attempts any check, you may display any number of blessings and weapons; for each card displayed, add 1 ([ ] 2) to the check. Return the displayed cards to your hand before you reset it (□and at the start of your turn)
When a character plays a weapon or an armor for its power on a check, you may display any number of blessings and armors; for each card displayed, add 1 ([ ] 2) to that check. Before you reset your hand ([ ] and at the start of your turn) draw the displayed cards.
Now at first, you look at CD Oloch's power and say "oh, he has to recharge them, that sucks" but... if I'm right, Class Deck Oloch can add the +1 (later +2) to EVERY check he makes during his turn. The wording is not specific to one check for him, instead it says "to your check" which would apply to every check he makes while the card is displayed. Am I right on this? Hawkmoon, you're the expert, what do you think?
No, it's just the cards you displayed for that particular check.
1) When you attempt a check,
2) you may display any number of blessings and spells;
3) for each card displayed [this way], add 1 to your check.
I added [this way] to clarify, but fragment 3 refers to cards displayed in fragment 2, not all displayed cards in front of Oloch. The scope of 2 is 1, aka the check you're attempting. Thus, you don't get a bonus for cards displayed on a previous check. There's a post by Vic saying as much, but I don't have time to search it up right now. If I remember later, I'll try to dig it up and link it.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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See, I don't agree there.. "When you attempt a check" is applying to "you may display..." then there's a semicolon and the "for each card displayed" is a separate phrase. It would be more clear if it said "While each card is displayed", but I'm pretty sure as written it applies to all his checks.
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I think skizzerz is correct.
Plus, it doesn't say the Displayed cards come back to your hand after the check (like they would if they were Revealed). So it sounds like you could Display a spell and a blessing for the first check; set those aside and then display another spell for a second check and set that one aside. At the end of the turn, recharge all three cards.
I think the displayed cards count only for the check when they were played from your hand.
[NOTE: While I agree that skizzerz is correct with just the wording on the card, I think the intent was to have it active for the rest of the turn.]
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There are a few factors here.
1) Oloch's hand size ... very small for this power to be a "per check" display.
2) They might have run out of space on Oloch's card. So it might have been meant to say "; for the rest of the turn, for each card displayed ".
3) Cards don't have memories. So you display two cards for a check. But you don't have a separate area for displayed cards and when you display another card for another check, you have three cards displayed. (There are no instructions what to do with the original displayed spells/blessings. At least with displayed spells and such, you know they stick around until the end of the turn.)
See, I don't agree there.. "When you attempt a check" is applying to "you may display..." then there's a semicolon and the "for each card displayed" is a separate phrase. It would be more clear if it said "While each card is displayed", but I'm pretty sure as written it applies to all his checks.
My difference of opinion is the semicolon means what comes after is part of the initial activation of the power. If it were meant to be separate, they would probably have made it a separate sentence. Like how a "<blank>bane" weapon doesn't require you to discard it to get its extra d8 against whatever.
Here's the Vic post on the topic. I don't think the difference between "your check" and "the check" matters here -- that just limits the power to yourself only, it does not make what was said in that post magically not apply. See also how Vic said it would have been worded for Olenjack should the bonus be applied to all future checks that turn.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Here's the Vic post on the topic. I don't think the difference between "your check" and "the check" matters here -- that just limits the power to yourself only, it does not make what was said in that post magically not apply. See also how Vic said it would have been worded for Olenjack should the bonus be applied to all future checks that turn.
Darn, that does seem to apply to this situation. I still have a feeling that the intent on this one was to allow it to work for the rest of the turn, so I'm hoping Vic or Keith or someone jumps in and says "Tyler's right", but for now I'll have to start playing it as only applying to a single check.
I cannot comment as to the intent; if that is indeed the case then I think the card will need an FAQ to make it more clear that it really does work differently than the other similar powers. Theryon makes a strong argument that the intent of the power may be what you initially thought, but as-written I just don't see that; it's too similar to the other powers and we know how those work (and not similar at all to how Vic said it would have likely otherwise been worded).
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I cannot comment as to the intent; if that is indeed the case then I think the card will need an FAQ to make it more clear that it really does work differently than the other similar powers. Theryon makes a strong argument that the intent of the power may be what you initially thought, but as-written I just don't see that; it's too similar to the other powers and we know how those work (and not similar at all to how Vic said it would have likely otherwise been worded).
Yeah, you're right, the current wording has to be read the way you're suggesting.. I'm just hoping Vic comes in and says "it was supposed to be the other way, here's a FAQ, add it to all checks" LOL
One point I'd like to add in favor if skizzerz's interpretation is the structure of the power. Specifically, that it starts with 'When you attempt a check, you may display...'. To me, this implies that the display action is a cost to activate the power, which must be paid for each check. If you don't display a card, then the rest of the power is irrelevant. In order for the power to work beyond the check that triggered it, there would need to be a special exception in the power itself that states the power lasts beyond the check in question (see the wording of the cloud cards).
Also, I feel that if it was intended to apply for a full turn, the wording would use the plural 'checks'. As it is, I'm not sure just pluralizing that word would even make the power work like you expect, given the prior issue, but I feel that it is further evidence against.
(All that being said, I hope you're right, since I think he really reads as bad, and could use the buff. Could be completely wrong in practice, of course)
Edit: that's what I get for trying to make a long post, the issue was solved twice over in the meantime.
Chief Technical Officer
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From most to least obvious:
• It says "check," singular. If this had been meant to apply to multiple checks, it would have said “checks.”
• It is part of the sentence that starts “when you attempt a check," meaning the things I said in the Olenjack thread apply.
• When we want effects to last as long as things are displayed, we say "while displayed..."
• If we had intended for this to be anything other than an immediate effect, we would need to ensure that it excluded cards that were displayed for other reasons.
So the power you desire would say something like "When you attempt a check, you may display any number of blessings and spells. While these cards are displayed, add 1 (▢ 2) to your checks for each one." (Which is really awkward, and we'd probably massage that last sentence a bit, but you get the point.)
I'm playing Oloch through Mummy's Mask at the moment, and I want to make sure I'm playing him correctly with regards to the power feat that allows him to reset his hand at the beginning of his turn.
As I currently play it, he can only reset his hand at the start of his turn if he currently has cards displayed from activating the power on a previous check.
I'm making this assumption based on the fact that the feat is an upgrade to the display power. However, the fact that he can only use the display power on himself and that he can't spend power feats to increase his hand size makes me think that perhaps the intent is for him to get the extra hand reset to offset his low hand size.
I realize this is wishful thinking, but I thought I'd bring it just in case.
There is no requirement to have displayed cards to use the start of turn reset. Smash on!
Excellent. Smash on, I shall.