So I'm not a huge fan of Gunslingers, the mechanics just don't mesh with my idea of an early-firearms gunslinger ... but for some reason, I really do like those same mechanics when I think of a gish character with a gun (go figure).
And since the only "alchemist" character I've made was an investigator, I thought using bombs might be fun.
This is really just theory-crafting to see if I can make a class I'm not super keen on into something fun to play while not being a total burden on any party I end up with. I don't have a game for this character yet so there's no time limit here. I would like to keep it PFS legal though, since that's the most likely place I'll try this character out.
To that end I'm trying to work out the best way to build a GUNSLINGER/ALCHEMIST.
At the moment I'm thinking 5 levels of gunslinger & then mostly alchemist (That could change, but there'd have to be a pretty good reason). With a 20 point buy I should be able to start with 16 DEX, INT & WIS (by dumping CHA) which seems pretty solid.
Since I've never looked seriously at making a gunslinger, and I don't have much experience with alchemists I thought I'd ask the you lovely people for some advice.
QUESTION 1: MONK?
Is it worth adding 1 or 2 levels of monk?
One level of monk gets me +2 to all saves (my Will Save progression is going to be appalling without some help), WIS to AC, Unarmed Strike (which is a nice thing to have "just in case"), a bonus feat (likely Deflect Arrows) & Stunning Fist (which is a VERY nice thing to have "just in case" & scales off character level - not monk level - which is nice).
What I lose: +1BAB & it will delay all alchemist abilities by 1 level & potentially (probably) DEX-to-damage with firearms as well.
A second level of monk will get me +1 to all saves, another bonus feat & Evasion (Which will make good use of my ridiculously good reflex save), but will push all that good alchemist stuff back another level (I'll likely leave the second Monk level till after DEX-to-damage, so it shouldn't affect that).
This means it seems like a really strong defensive option, but it pushes back a lot of the things I really want on this character (the Alchemist levels).
QUESTION 2: RACE?
Any suggestions? At the moment I like Dwarf, but I haven't really looked at the mechanics of race yet. Obviously Half-Elf would have some advantages with this much multi-classing, but what are some other options?
QUESTION 3: ARCHETYPES?
What are some good archetypes? Gunslinger archetypes? Alchemist archetypes? (Monk archetypes?)
The obvious ones to me are the PISTOLERO Gunslinger & the GRENADIER Alchemist (I got nothing for Monk) but I'm open to suggestions (I will be using one-handed-firearms).
QUESTION 4: BUILD ORDER?
My original thought was something along the lines of Alchemist 1, Gunslinger 5, Alchemist X (or G1, A1, G4, AX). That pushes back DEX-to-damage to level 6, but gives me some fun toys to play with to make the early levels more fun.
Grenadier seems like it adds some really nice toys at level 2 which would be great to get early, but that pushes back that DEX-to-damage to level 7, which is getting pretty late.
What about Monk? If I'm adding Monk levels where do they come in? G1, M1, G4, (M1?,) AX seems pretty solid but I don't get any alchemist levels till level 7 or 8, & adding them any earlier means I'm pushing back that Dex-to-damage till level 7 or 8 instead (Obviously this becomes less complicated if your advice is "skip the monk").
QUESTION 5: GENERAL ADVICE?
I'll be taking some fairly standard ranged-combat feats. Are there any feats/options/pitfalls/anythings I should be aware of for either Gunslinger or Alchemist (or Monk)? This is all fairly new territory for me (actually I don't think I've ever played a Monk either) so any advice really is appreciated.
Once again this is mostly theory-crafting to make a character I'll enjoy without having to be carried through the game by my party.
Thanks all.
1) Taking a level of monk is probably not worth it. You're better off using a feat for Iron Will.
2) Gnome with the Pyromaniac alternate racial trait (counted as one level higher to determine bomb damage).
3) Pistolero and grenadier work pretty well.
4) Gunslinger 1/alchemist 4 (to pick up the Explosive Missile discovery as fast as possible)/gunslinger +4/alchemist +X. Dex to damage is nice, but adding bomb damage (including splash damage) is "better;" especially with some discoveries like Acid Bomb, Explosive Bomb, Frost Bomb, Shock Bomb, and Strafe Bomb.
5) Extra Bombs and Extra Discovery will be useful options, in addition to the standard ranged attack feats and Rapid Reload.
1) Taking a level of monk is probably not worth it. You're better off using a feat for Iron Will.
2) Gnome with the Pyromaniac alternate racial trait (counted as one level higher to determine bomb damage).
3) Pistolero and grenadier work pretty well.
4) Gunslinger 1/alchemist 4 (to pick up the Explosive Missile discovery as fast as possible)/gunslinger +4/alchemist +X. Dex to damage is nice, but adding bomb damage (including splash damage) is "better;" especially with some discoveries like Acid Bomb, Explosive Bomb, Frost Bomb, Shock Bomb, and Strafe Bomb.
5) Extra Bombs and Extra Discovery will be useful options, in addition to the standard ranged attack feats and Rapid Reload.
1: Yeah the more I think about it the more I realise I'm spreading myself too thin. Maybe if I ever make a less complicated Gunslinger I'll try the Monk thing.
2: Ooh, that's exactly the kind of secret I was looking for, thanks.
3: =)
4: I did think about that, I just wasn't sure I'd have enough bombs to carry me through. This way at level 8 if I run out of bombs for the day I'm down to my 1d8+2 damage bullets (and at Alchemist-level+INT I'm looking at 8 bombs per day at that level). Is that going to hold up at that level? Like I said I have no real experience with this, so that's a genuine question.
5: I've never really played a ranged-focused character, but from what I read they seem fairly feet-intensive. Will I have room here for Extra Bombs/Discovery? (Maybe I'll post a sample build and see how we go)
grenadier gives Martial Weapon Proficiency if your worried about close combat just chose a melee weapon. or chose a race that lets you use racial weapons.the grenadier's Alchemical Weapon (Su) ability works melee and ranged weapons
as for classes have you looked at swashbuckler with the archetype musketeer it focus's mostly on melee combat but still allows you to use guns and rifles. still allows you to use the gunslingers armors.
build order? one for one switch between the two classes every lvl.
i play a grenadier with two lvls of fighter and i play him like an archer with explosive arrows
swashbuckler (musketeer) will give melee combat and guns and alchemist (grenadier) will give ranged combat and a melee buff and something like a shotgun blast or claymore blast. you will also have bombs to play with.
Edit: Fixed links and amalgamated your posts.
I've made swashbucklers before. Never really played with the Musketeer, but since they're really a melee-focused class with access to guns it's not really what I'm looking for. The purpose of this is to use Gunslinger as the base chassis for my character & make it more interesting. I'm sure the Musketeer is good, just not really what I'm looking for.
Also probably the main thing tying the Alchemist & Gunslinger together is going to be the EXPLOSIVE MISSILE discovery, so I'm really set on using 1-handed firearms.
Thanks for your post though. Sorry if this post sounds dismissive, I'm just trying to be more clear on what I'm looking for. I realise that first post was a huge wall of text so I'm grateful for even getting replies.
So just checking what people think here, could I use a move action to use a GRENADIER'S "Alchemical Weapon" ability, then a standard action to use the EXPLOSIVE MISSILE discovery to augment the same piece of ammunition and shoot one bullet with bullet damage + bomb damage + sneezing powder (or whatever)?
Or would they not stack on the same weapon?
Note: I am on the phone right now. Please forgive the lack of links and any possible typos.
Okay, so reading your posts, it looks like you're building on of my friends favorite dicegasm builds. I am going to tell you know, most of your big damage will be coming from items. CONDUCTIVE weapons will give you x2 Dice damage per attack by expending 2 uses of your bombs on exploaive missiles. HYBRIDIZATION FUNNEL is a good way to add two alchemy items at onw time from your Grannader ability.
GRENAIDER is going to be a mandatory Archetype for adding extra alchemy damage to your one time per round special shot.
PISTELADO (PFS) or SIEGE GUNNER (Not PFS) for the Gumslinger class if you're okay with going one trick combat pony. MUSKETEER from Swashbuckler if you want melee survivability. Both work, it is just a matter of preference.
Two-weapon Fighting and Rapid Fire feats will be useless foe you. Explosive Missile limita you to 1 attack per round, so ita better to focus on that, like a Vital Strike build.
TARGETED BOMB ADMIXTURE increases your in to damage for bombs by x2 but removes the splash damage, good if fighting one bad guy at a time.
With this and assuming 20 int and 18 dex at level 12, you could easily deal:
1d8 [Pistol] + (4d6+10)*2 [Conductive Bomb] + 2d6+5 [Hybrid Alchemy Item] + 1d6 [Pistalado] + 4 [Dex].
Not optimized. But fun, and unlike Vital Strike, it is vs touch and can have a nasty debuff.
CONDUCTIVE WEAPONS: Probably won't bother with that, too expensive. But we'll see.
HYBRIDIZATION FUNNEL: Awesome, thanks dude.
I'm probably going with PISTOLERO, but if anyone's got any really good arguments I could be swayed.
VITAL STRIKE STUFF: Yep, I think that's the way I'll be going.
Looks like it's gonna be a lot of fun.
Probably won't go into magus, I'm already multi-classing enough as it is. I am thinking about Gnome, but I'm going with Alchemist for favoured class bonus.
Keep in mind that Vital Strike doesnt work with Explosive Missle. Vital only works with attack actions, not a standard action. Its sad, cuz Vital Strike would be awesome otherwise.
Keep in mind that Vital Strike doesnt work with Explosive Missle. Vital only works with attack actions, not a standard action. Its sad, cuz Vital Strike would be awesome otherwise.
Oh yeah, I meant VITAL STRIKE STYLE, not actual vital strike.
But thanks, I'd rather be reminded of things like that in the planning stage than get to level 7 & be told my build doesn't work.
You can take the Feral Mutagen discovery if you're worried about doing emergency melee damage. I'm not sure if it's an optimal Alchemical Discovery, but it is an option.
I think the Alchemist/Gunslinger is a really fun combo, but try to squeeze in Iron Will and maybe even that trait that gives you +1 to Will saves. If you DO go half-elf, I think there is an alternate racial feature that gives +2 to Will saves, but I'm pretty sure it trades out the multi-classing bonus you were looking at.
Remember gnome weapons cause less base damage because of their Small size, but all the other bonus damage (bomb, Pistolero stuff, Explosive Weapon, etc.) doesn't get reduced. :-D
Maybe if I ever make a less complicated Gunslinger I'll try the Monk thing.
For a gunslinger/monk, musket master and monk of the sacred mountain are fun: Bastion Stance lets you fire a culverin or double hackbut without a carriage/rest and not be knocked prone (although you still take the -4 penalty to attack rolls)...
Man, I'm actually getting excited about this character, thanks gang!
Although at the moment it's kind of a huge mess of multiclass-junk.
Here's what I'm thinking now, almost certainly not optimal but I think it sounds like fun:
Gunslinger (Pistolero) 1
Alchemist (Grenadier) 4 (Level 5 shooting Bombs)
Monk 1 (Level 6 WIS to AC, +saves etc)
Gunslinger 4 (Level 10 Dex to damage with pistols).
After that I'll be Alchemist all the way, with maybe another level of Monk for Evasion (My reflex save will be 10+DEX at level 10 on this build without items, hopefully +19 all up)
Gnome would get me +2 Bombs per day by level 5 (via Alchemist Favoured Class Bonus) & +1d6 damage from bombs (via Piromaniac alternate racial trait).
As I said I know it's not optimal, but is it really bad? I mean ... if it is I'll change it, but it looks functional & fun to me.
Do you really need Wis to AC?
Gunslinger gives you Nimble or whatever (+1/4 to AC when lightly armored), plus you'll have a high Dex, plus you can take a Dex mutagen to get +4 to AC (+2 alchemical (+4 alchemical bonus to Dex), +2 natural).
Do you really need Wis to AC?
Gunslinger gives you Nimble or whatever (+1/4 to AC when lightly armored), plus you'll have a high Dex, plus you can take a Dex mutagen to get +4 to AC (+2 alchemical (+4 alchemical bonus to Dex), +2 natural).
I don't need it, I just like the idea of it. It also ups my saves, gets me deflect arrows (grit-free auto-success Gunslinger's Dodge) & Stunning fist 2/day for emergencies.
What I might end up doing is ignoring the Monk levels unless I feel I need more defence. If I find myself needing a bit of bolstering I know where to find it.
At least you'll have a decent Wisdom for Grit....
I've been so focused on Gunslinger 5 that I didn't notice that the PISTOLERO picks up the Deadeye deed at level 7.
What do people think, is it worth taking those extra Gunslinger levels for that? Or would it be better to scrap Pistolero & go normal Gunslinger? Or just not bother & stop at Pistoler 5?
Taking 2 extra levels in Pistolero would also pick up the Dead Shot and Targeting deeds (both kind of "meh") and an extra +1AC from Nimble.
Honestly most of that doesn't do much for me, but Deadeye is really good.
Current build is:
Gunslinger 1
Alchemist 4
Gunslinger 4
Alchemist X
(I know I change it every time I post).
Most people I've known tend to stay within guns length for max damage. Its more of what you would prefer, touch at farther range and be more like a sniper or a semi melee, in your face cannon pistol?
Keeping in mind that your main attack action is going to be a standard action attack, meaning you can move in between.
If you're just dipping slinger for dex -> dam, then Trench Fighter will get you there in 3 levels rather than 5.
I GMed for a pistolero, and he had a lot of fun spending grit for all that extra damage.
Yeah I think I like Pistolero. I guess I just won't be able to do any long range trick shots.Most people I've known tend to stay within guns length for max damage. Its more of what you would prefer, touch at farther range and be more like a sniper or a semi melee, in your face cannon pistol?
Keeping in mind that your main attack action is going to be a standard action attack, meaning you can move in between.
.
If you're just dipping slinger for dex -> dam, then Trench Fighter will get you there in 3 levels rather than 5.
The main point of this was to make the gunslinger something I want to do. I did look at Trench fighter - and it's probably a stronger option - but I think I like having Grit & stuff.
.What is their name? Junkrat?
Right?
I actually did look at the EXPERIMENTAL GUNSMITH for this character. I don't really like the mechanics for it and I feel like going Alchemist/Gunslinger gives it that same flavour with some extras that I like..
I GMed for a pistolero, and he had a lot of fun spending grit for all that extra damage.
Yeah I think I'm sticking with Pistolero, it looks more fun.
Trench fighter doesn't grant proficiency with firearms, nor useful deeds, and if your "I would like to keep it PFS legal though" comment from the original post is still applicable then heads up, trench fighter isn't PFS legal.
Trench fighter doesn't grant proficiency with firearms, nor useful deeds, and if your "I would like to keep it PFS legal though" comment from the original post is still applicable then heads up, trench fighter isn't PFS legal.
Well Tech Fighter does grant feats, one of which could be Firearm Proficiency ... but yeah, not super keen on it.
I did consider Gunslinger 1 Tech Fighter 3 as a quicker way to get dex to damage, but I think I want to stick to gunslingerEDIT: Also the PFS legal thing is more of a guide. I have like 3 characters lined up that I want to play before this one so it could be PFS it could be not. But keeping it PFS legal just means I don't have to worry about rebuilding it if it ends up in PFS.
Well if PFS-future proofing is an issue, or even if not since it's required for any alchemical ammunition discount, then Gunsmithing feat is also gonna be necessary which cuts into more of the trench fighter's feats.
If considering monk levels, far strike monk is a great choice for its bonus feat choices.
I actually like Monk/Gunslinger. I think there is a lot synergy that gets overlooked. Both classes benefit from Dex and Wis, both have class abilities that boost AC when wearing no armor, and both get bonus feats. Then of course there is the whole shoot what you can't kick/kick what you can't shoot thing. I probably wouldn't try to add alchemist to that though.
As far as alchemist/gunslinger, I'm surprised no one brought up vestigial arm discovery. That allows you to reload while two-weapon fighting. You can't use explosive missile while TWFing obviously but you could still use your alchemical weapon ability and your conductive weapon ability.
I just want to say thanks everyone. The purpose of this thread was basically to convince me that the gunslinger class isn't a waste of paper, and you've not only done that, you've actually made me excited about it. I'll probably never make a straight gunslinger, but I really think there's a lot of fun to be had here.
(Feel free to keep posting if you want to, I'll keep up with this thread if it keeps getting love)
Nah, the Gunslinger class isn't a complete waste of paper... it's just a class with only 5 actual levels in it (since what you gain after level 5 is so little that there's no reason not to multiclass).
(Disclaimer: I have no idea what is legal for PFS in regards to my suggestions)
If it wasn't mentioned, Deflect Arrows also applies to firearm attacks.
The best combo IMO for Gunslinger and Alchemist would be the Siege Gunner archetype gunslinger. Alchemists are based on INT and the Siege Gunner uses INT instead of WIS... allowing better extracts, bomb damage and grit.
Level 7 is what I would aim for with Gunslinger for the Dead Shot deed. You will never be able to make a full-attack action with a 2-handed firearm due to reloading... but pooling multiple attacks from a higher BAB into one devastating shot is quite helpful. May not matter for a Pistolero (Explosive Missile discovery only works on 1-handed firearms anyway) but Siege Gunner makes great use of scatter weapons like the Dragon Pistol or the Blunderbuss.
If you really wanna stack on the DEX to damage Savage Technologist and Trench Fighter. Not to mention the Rage adds to STR and DEX, further amplifying your damage bonus and attack rolls. Potentially x3 DEX mod to firearm damage rolls! Unless somehow they wouldn't stack with each other?
As far as proficiencies, Gnomes have a trait or alternate racial trait somewhere that says they are proficient with any weapon they personally craft.
Attribute bonuses to something don't stack (they are untyped bonuses from the same source, confirmed by FAQ).
You will never be able to make a full-attack action with a 2-handed firearm due to reloading
That's why you normaly take Musket Master for two handed firearms.
Ok, good to know. What about the Crackshot ability from Savage Technologist? It says it adds DEX mod to ranged damage rolls while raging... would that make this instance a "morale" bonus from rage instead of an untyped bonus... allowing it to stack with Gunslinger's ability?
Nope, still untyped bonus, just with a condition. It would need to actually say "At 5th level, a savage technologist adds a morale bonus equal to her Dexterity modifier to her damage rolls when making ranged attacks with a firearm while raging." for it to be a morale bonus.
I'm currently running an explosive missile grenadier in our Iron Gods campaign, and it's a TON of fun. I didn't pick up Conductive until post-level 10, so it can wait a bit.
I'm just going with the "classic" longbow + tangleshot arrows + hybridized acid/fire flasks + bomb + conductive bomb + targeted bomb admixture (helpfully delivered by my tumor familiar at the start of combat.)
It's terribly entertaining. (Currently 2d6+10 + 7d6+20 + 7d6+20 +1d6 shocking +2 enhancement.)
For race, I'll just go ahead and suggest the very race that I'm using: goblin.
+4 racial Dexterity mod works just as nicely for gunslinger as it does alchemist, and it also opens up my favorite archetype: Winged Marauder! (which helpfully combines with Grenadier.)
Goblins even have a feat that lets them use oversized guns.
One final thought is that since Explosive Missile covers loading your firearm, I'd consider taking the biggest firearm you can - one of the slow-loading ones. At least for your Explosive Missiles.
I seriously doubt you can use Conductive with bombs because the supernatural ability "bomb" does not allow an attack itself - it merely creates the splash weapon.
Explosive Missile is restricted to arrows, crossbow bolts, and ONE-HANDED firearm ammunition.
Ah, nice catch.
Ignore what I said on that, then.
Derklord, Bomb is a (Su) ability that requires a ranged touch attack, it fits the very definition of working with the Conductive property. It's magic. It's a magic enchantment on a magic gun that channels your magic bomb. It's been argued on threads a few years ago, and the general consensus is that it works. Not only that, there's been nothing to suggest in several years that it wouldn't work, and Conductive just received errata.
EDIT/ADDENDUM: Not only that, it burns through bomb uses so fast that it's arguably not even worth it, especially for a multiclass alchemist.
You can always go gnome for extra bombs. Their gunslinger archetype can get a bonus when using alchemical items.
Vial Launcher: The experimental gunsmith adds a special tube onto her firearm that can hold 1 vial of alchemical material, such as alchemist's fire, a tanglefoot bag, or a thunderstone. A special trigger allows her to channel the force of black powder into this tube to launch the vial as a ranged attack with half the range increment of her firearm. The experimental gunsmith can take this action in place of any single ranged attack, and may use the same attack bonus that she can apply to the firearm. If the alchemical substance has a save DC, it becomes 10 + 1/2 her experimental gunsmith level + her Wisdom modifier when she launches the vial from her firearm. This increase only applies to the initial saving throw. If additional saving throws are called for, they are resolved as normal. Reloading the tube is a time-consuming process and requires two full-round actions. If the weapon misfires while loaded with an alchemical substance, it detonates with the experimental gunsmith (and the firearm) as the target.
Derklord, Bomb is a (Su) ability that requires a ranged touch attack
No it is not. It's a supernatural ability that creates a weapon. The properties of the created weapon don't matter. The supernatural ability explicitly mentions that you use the "Throw Splash Weapon special attack". The whole discription doesn't mention the word "touch" at all.
You mean this thread? I see too many people disagreeing to call that "general consensus".
Also, in any case, I don't think you would get to add your Int modifier at all, since an arrow fired from a bow is not a thrown weapon.
Intelligence to damage comes from the bomb ability, not from the Throw Anything ability.
On a direct hit, an alchemist's bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the alchemist's Intelligence modifier.
Also "Throw Splash Weapon special attack" clearly mentions touch attack.
To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target.
Intelligence to damage comes from the bomb ability, not from the Throw Anything ability.
Nope, it comes from Throw Anything. What they meant with your quote is that the Int bonus is already added in the bomb's given damage calculation. Prove: Variant Multiclassing says "The bombs deal damage as an alchemist of his character level, but since he doesn't have the alchemist's throw anything class feature, he doesn't add his Intelligence modifier to the damage."
Also "Throw Splash Weapon special attack" clearly mentions touch attack.
I do not doubt that. But as the name says, that part of the rules is about attacking with weapons. The abilites that Conductive mentions have "touch attack" or "ranged touch attack" in them. Bomb does not. Bomb just tells you how the weapon it creates behaves, (i.e. just like other splash weapons).
Intelligence to damage comes from the bomb ability, not from the Throw Anything ability.Nope, it comes from Throw Anything. What they meant with your quote is that the Int bonus is already added in the bomb's given damage calculation. Prove: Variant Multiclassing says "The bombs deal damage as an alchemist of his character level, but since he doesn't have the alchemist's throw anything class feature, he doesn't add his Intelligence modifier to the damage."
Also "Throw Splash Weapon special attack" clearly mentions touch attack.I do not doubt that. But as the name says, that part of the rules is about attacking with weapons. The abilites that Conductive mentions have "touch attack" or "ranged touch attack" in them. Bomb does not. Bomb just tells you how the weapon it creates behaves, (i.e. just like other splash weapons).
I disagree.
Derklord, Bomb is a (Su) ability that requires a ranged touch attackNo it is not. It's a supernatural ability that creates a weapon. The properties of the created weapon don't matter. The supernatural ability explicitly mentions that you use the "Throw Splash Weapon special attack". The whole discription doesn't mention the word "touch" at all.
You mean this thread? I see too many people disagreeing to call that "general consensus".
Also, in any case, I don't think you would get to add your Int modifier at all, since an arrow fired from a bow is not a thrown weapon.
The Alchemist enhancement to Throw Anything doesn't require the weapon to be thrown, it just modifies the behavior of splash weapons and has the misfortune of being listed under Throw Anything. In fact, the splash weapon doesn't even need to splash, it just has to be a splash weapon.
By your logic, Conductive wouldn't work with rays, either, since rays are weapons.
I was actually referring to a much longer thread which I'll look for when I'm not on mobile.
In any case, back to the OP - it's a very fun build, though very far from being optimized. Alchemists and gunslingers both have the ability to put out much higher DPR (in much easier ways), but this is just terribly fun.
I disagree.
On what? Do you disagree that Int to damage comes from Throw Anything even though I quoted text from a hardcover saying otherwise? Do you disagree that the abilites that Conductive mentions have "touch attack" or "ranged touch attack" in them? Do you disagree that the discription for Bomb does not mention the word "touch"? Or do you disagree that the "Throw Splash Weapon special attack" handles throwing splash weapons and not shooting supernatural magical energy?
@Gulthor: Splash weapon and not thrown weapon, indeed, my mistake. So either it's a splash weapon, and thus not usable with conductive, or it's supernatural energy and not a splash weapon, and thus doesn't get Int to damage.
Rays are treated as weapons for feats and such, but are still magical things that targets something. A bomb is an actual physical weapon you have in your hand.
I disagree.On what? Do you disagree that Int to damage comes from Throw Anything even though I quoted text from a hardcover saying otherwise? Do you disagree that the abilites that Conductive mentions have "touch attack" or "ranged touch attack" in them? Do you disagree that the discription for Bomb does not mention the word "touch"? Or do you disagree that the "Throw Splash Weapon special attack" handles throwing splash weapons and not shooting supernatural magical energy?
Correct, I disagree with both statements but I do not wish to argue either point here as it is not the purpose of the thread.
DL, I suppose we'll just have to agree to strongly disagree. S'okay, we don't game together, so it's unlikely our interpretations are likely to affect the other.