Hi fellow GMs! We are about to enter chapter 2 with my group.
I didn't give them the 50 BP from the staglord death but instead organized some meetings in Restov with a lot of churches, noble families and other organizations/guilds.
They basically get BP or other advantages but must accept certain rules in return.
So my LN/CN/CG group basically met this emissary of evil cults who wanted to discuss an offer. They would offer 10 BP (didn't tell that to my players i only use description as small/medium/important offer) for the kingdom being not good, and for an authorization to establish temples/shrines and liberty to worship their gods.
I personnally think this is a bad idea but my players think they better know which cults are in their kingdom and where they are.
I provided them a list of LE/NE cults they would provide an authorization for:
- the 4 elemental lords: Ayrzul, Hshurha, Kelizandri et Ymeri. (LE)
- the 4 harbingers: Charon, Apollyon, Szuriel, Oinodaemon, Trelmarixian (NE)
- Droskar (NE)
- Lao Shu Po (NE)
- Zyphus (NE)
- The green mother (NE)
- Norgorber (NE)
- Asmodeus and other 8 archdevils
- Zon-Kuthon
- Ahriman (NE)
- Eiseth (LE)
- Achaekek.
Officially, these cults would have the liberty to practice, in the respect of the law of the kingdom. But i don't think NE cults would give a damn about laws anyway.
So my question is: How would react people to the obvious presence of these kind of churches? What would you create as interactions with others majors deities (abadar/erastil/Cayden Cailean/Nethys/Pharasma)? Is there actually a way to work it out or would it end in a civil war in a matter of months?
Thanks in advance for the ideas, and sorry for the bad english!
I'd think that a NE cult would use laws when they were helpful, and ignore them when they get in the way, so they'd be all for "we have a right to set up our temple and undergo our religious practices here!", while at the same time utterly ignoring the laws that say "human(oid) sacrifice is murder and illegal".
From a kingdom building perspective, shrines, temples and cathedrals provide benefit to the kingdom, regardless of the alignment of either, and I can see that being a problem. First, make sure you're using the Deity and Holy Sites optional rule, so that the alignment of the temple is affecting the kingdom in the right way, but you might also want to apply a house-rule about differing alignments, perhaps something like this:
Shrines, temples, and cathedrals dedicated to deities whose alignment differs from that of the kingdom have a radically different impact on kingdom attributes. If the deity's alignment matches the kingdom, the holy site provides the full benefit per the normal rules. For each step by which the alignment of the deity differs from the alignment of the settlement, apply a -1 penalty to the kingdom attributes the holy site affects. For example, a LN deity's temple in a NG kingdom, thus differing by 2 steps, would apply a +0 to economy and +0 to stability, instead of the normal +2 for a LN temple. A CE temple in the same kingdom would apply -1 to loyalty and stability for being three steps different.
I see where they're coming from in terms of "better the devil you know" - if they know who the evil cultists are and where to find them, they're much easier to dispose of or track down, but I also think you should use it as an opportunity to create interesting plotlines: how are your players going to enforce keeping track of these cults once they've been granted permission to worship in the kingdom? Spies? An inquisition? Consider starting the kingdom with a Cult Activity continuous event straight away, and increase the chance of that particular event occurring under the normal event process.
Well, I think that allowing that many evil cults into your kingdom would definitely attract more of the good and order aligned churches who would feel that the cults would need to be kept in check. The more neutral and commerce and quality-of-life based churches would then probably be more inclined to stay away since they don't want to be caught in the middle of any altercations between rival churches.
I also think it would be interesting to allow at least one cult to become very popular among the people, because then you'd have a cult that felt more empowered to further their evil goals. It would be harder for the government or a rival church to wipe them out because they have the support of the people.
Weird, could have sworn I'd done an edit to that post before the time ran out.
Anyway, it went something like this:
One of the "problems" with the kingdom rules is that everything is either decided by the players (and therefore of at least some benefit to the kingdom), random chance (events, some of which are good, some of which are bad), or must be plot-related (and so prepared for by the GM), which means there are no mechanics in place to account for the activity of groups within a kingdom that are outside the control of the PCs. Essentially, that temple (and the entire church hierarchy plus worshippers) of Asmodeus that the PCs have allowed to be built in their nominally good kingdom has no way to affect the kingdom unless the GM specifically prepares for it. Which, while it could be an awesome plotline, certainly isn't the central theme of this AP, nor will it necessarily be a plot the GM wants to take the time prepping for.
A little bird tells me that Legendary Games have an upcoming product called Ultimate Factions, and one of the mechanics included is a way to introduce kingdom-level effects for groups and organisations trying to achieve their own goals.
Another thought: You could re-design Malgozata Niska's cult (from book 2, I believe) into one of the cults that the PCs have allowed to enter their kingdom.
For each step by which the alignment of the deity differs from the alignment of the settlement, apply a -1 penalty to the kingdom attributes the holy site affects. For example, a LN deity's temple in a NG kingdom, thus differing by 2 steps, would apply a +0 to economy and +0 to stability, instead of the normal +2 for a LN temple. A CE temple in the same kingdom would apply -1 to loyalty and stability for being three steps different.
Excellent ruling indeed. I was worried too that these temples would buff the kingdom stats too much. It will make the kingdom's alignment choice even more difficult for my PCs aha
And for the ultimate factions, i'll definitely take a look into it when it's finishedhow are your players going to enforce keeping track of these cults once they've been granted permission to worship in the kingdom? Spies? An inquisition? Consider starting the kingdom with a Cult Activity continuous event straight away, and increase the chance of that particular event occurring under the normal event...
Yup. So far, they are counting on the emissary of the half-light to manage the different cults for them (self-regulation, LE wouldn't want NE cults to mess it up).
But in a few months, hell yeah! Lot's of good stuff to come by: Iomedae paladins launching a holy crusade (they don't really care about liberty of worship right?), Zon-Kuthon mad cultists organizing a parade in the streets and offending good Erastil people, the assassin guild blessing the Norgorber/Achaekek presence.
I also think it would be interesting to allow at least one cult to become very popular among the people, because then you'd have a cult that felt more empowered to further their evil goals. It would be harder for the government or a rival church to wipe them out because they have the support of the people.
That was planned. Asmodeus seems to be the most legit choice here. Maybe some kind of Chelish help to develop the church. And once they got big, they would maybe grab more and more power until they provide a choice to the PCs: convert,leave or die.
Chapter 5 would be lot of fun: Summoned devil armies from Asmodeus, Zon-Kuthon flagellants, elemental evil druids and assassins teaming up together to save the kingdom from Pitax.Yeah, between this, Grigori and Hargulka's kingdom, they gonna have their hands full.
@andostre: Malgorzata is already re-designed to worship urgathoa (long story of hatred between this cult and the PCs. It explains why it's out of the list. They don't know Mister Vordakai is the head thou ^^)
@pennywit: Will think about that too
Thanks for the good advices guys!
A little bird tells me that Legendary Games have an upcoming product called Ultimate Factions, and one of the mechanics included is a way to introduce kingdom-level effects for groups and organisations trying to achieve their own goals.
*Perks ears up.* Really? Now that sounds like something I could use. May I know where you heard about this?
My Paladin-king would not have taken that deal... if you want to run an evil cult in my kingdom.. you do it as cults are intended to operate. Quietly... underground... and in secret. Get to obvious, and there's a smiting coming their way!
I would recommend giving them the 50BP... that's still just a drop in the bucket and getting that kingdom started took forever. One thing we did was try really hard to NOT necessarily metagame the kingdom building... There wre things we specifically wanted... and some things that we just felt would start showing up regardless of personal character opinions.
A little bird tells me that Legendary Games have an upcoming product called Ultimate Factions, and one of the mechanics included is a way to introduce kingdom-level effects for groups and organisations trying to achieve their own goals.*Perks ears up.* Really? Now that sounds like something I could use. May I know where you heard about this?
Unfortunately I'm not in a position to fully answer that question. I can, though, partially answer it by saying that some details of the product are provided in the Legendary Games PaizoCon 2016 seminar (and there's a podcast available for that presentation). And I can cheerfully admit that I am not breaking any NDAs or confidences by saying anything about it.