Are you aware that the guy in charge of Golarion disagrees?
Actually I was unaware of that particular quote. However, I have yet to see any NPC or game mechanic published that supports the godless paladin (though my knowledge of published material is far from comprehensive). The link you presented does a lot to help me understand where people are coming from, though I can't say it does much to change how I plan to run games as a GM.
In other settings (including my own homebrew) there is an overdeity typically who is N and in charge of alignment.
I believe we had Io previously?
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Energiser batteries... they just keep on smiting and smiting...
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I believe that there is an alignment matrix populated entirely by Batman.
I believe that there is an alignment matrix populated entirely by Batman.Is this the one you had in mind?
I think so, yes.
I thought we were powered by friendship!
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Whatever they're powered by, they're an ecological disaster. All that smug...
The undefined force would probably simply be the plane of Good and Law itself: Heaven.
Same thing that grants power to angels and other LG outsiders.
Just as an angel can fall for breaking the Laws of Heaven, so, too, can Heaven's mortal servants.
Going to second this.
The setting fluff has been making pretty clear (Mr. Sutter's The Redemption Engine and Mr. Schneider's recent article on Mephistopheles being examples) that the Outer Planes are themselves intelligent and aware, though rather difficult to directly commune with.
(That said, Hell's the easiest plane to communicate with because Asmodeus custom-made a mouthpiece for the plane - Mephistopheles.)
Heaven, being composed of the quintessence of every lawful good soul that has ever merged with the plane, is Law and Good made manifest.
And Heaven selects it own champions, above and beyond what its resident gods and empyreal lords do.
A godless grey paladin might be tapping Nirvana or Axis instead - or perhaps tapping Heaven with a filter.
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They are powered by threads about Paladins falling. It is an inexhaustible energy source.
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The sun, they are solar powered.
If my gnomish engineer gets his patent, steam powered paladins will be the new thing.
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If my gnomish engineer gets his patent, steam powered paladins will be the new thing.Steam is obsolete. Nuclear Paladins are the champions of the FUTURE!
Yeah, but if you get too many of them in one place... *critical WOOSH*
Hey! Maybe that's what happened to Golarion in Starfinder!
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Steam is obsolete. Nuclear Paladins are the champions of the FUTURE!
So, what? The Brotherhood of Steel? Can I smite with a Gatling Laser now?
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If my gnomish engineer gets his patent, steam powered paladins will be the new thing.Steam is obsolete. Nuclear Paladins are the champions of the FUTURE!Yeah, but if you get too many of them in one place... *critical WOOSH*
Hey! Maybe that's what happened to Golarion in Starfinder!
You hear that Paizo? We want a Nuclear Paladin archetype. With smiting gatling lazers.
Rods of Lordly Might shoved up their asses
So, one thing I hear on these forums a lot is that Paladins are empowered by "the Forces of Law and Good."
What are they? The Forces of Law and Good, that is.
Are they sentient? They seem to be, since they can physically remove the Paladins divine abilities from them as soon as they violate their code of conduct once. If so, does that make these Forces a god? Are they greater than a god? Lesser, since it seems they cannot grant actual Miracles? Can the Gods converse with the Forces of Law and Good?
Is this a Planescape-type deal? If a Paladin believes that they are righteous, they get righteous powers simply because of this belief? But if this is the case, then a Paladin who does evil things but still thinks that they are righteous should retain their divine powers, and a Paladin who is good but who does not believe that they are good should lose said powers. That doesn't happen, so that can't be right.
Are the Forces of Law and Good a power source that one can tap into if one performs the proper rituals? That is, the Code of Conduct provides the necessary frame of mind to tap into a limitless source of Divine Power aligned against Evil and Chaos? If this is the case, then the Forces cannot be said to "choose" a Paladin, since they have no conscious ability to make choices.
What about Antipaladins? Are there forces of Chaos and Evil as well? Do any of the following questions pertain to those Forces. Are Chaos and Evil always aligned against Law and Good? That is, do the Forces of Law and Evil ever collaborate, if such a thing is possible (that is, these Forces are sentient and not mindless)?
Basically, what is the nature of a Paladin's power? That is what I'm curious about.
In my opinion, I believe it's probably from the LG, LN, NG spectrum of deities or subdeities. At 4th level, paladins receive spells; which are divine spells. Those spells (such as Bless) require a DF, usually requiring one to believe in the deity to function. It wouldn't make sense for a DF to work if you didn't have faith in the deity. Same with the Anti-paladins.
Otherwise...I'm going with Kenderkin on this one. The Sun is big and bright.
Those spells (such as Bless) require a DF, usually requiring one to believe in the deity to function.
Ehh that's a bit of a shallow explanation. A Divine Focus is foremost an item of spiritual significance. For Clerics and Paladins it's a symbol of their faith. My priest in a game uses a smaller decorative form of the "Bowl of Hygieia" on a chain.
One use of a divine focus is to connect with your deity, but that isn't the only function. It can also serve as a totem of more abstract concepts like a particular force of nature. Druids, for instance, are also divine casters but need not cater to any individual or group of deities; they get their mojo just from "Nature". They tend to use nature-based foci such as plant sprigs, claws, teeth, etc.
Shamans are divine casters as well and have no particular divine focus.
Those spells (such as Bless) require a DF, usually requiring one to believe in the deity to function.
Ehh that's a bit of a shallow explanation. A Divine Focus is foremost an item of spiritual significance. For Clerics and Paladins it's a symbol of their faith. My priest in a game uses a smaller decorative form of the "Bowl of Hygieia" on a chain.
One use of a divine focus is to connect with your deity, but that isn't the only function. It can also serve as a totem of more abstract concepts like a particular force of nature. Druids, for instance, are also divine casters but need not cater to any individual or group of deities; they get their mojo just from "Nature". They tend to use nature-based foci such as plant sprigs, claws, teeth, etc.Shamans are divine casters as well and have no particular divine focus.
One use of a divine focus is to connect with your deity, but that isn't the only function. It can also serve as a totem of more abstract concepts like a particular force of nature. Druids, for instance, are also divine casters but need not cater to any individual or group of deities; they get their mojo just from "Nature". They tend to use nature-based foci such as plant sprigs, claws, teeth, etc.In my opinion, I believe it's probably from the LG, LN, NG spectrum of deities or subdeities. At 4th level, paladins receive spells; which are divine spells. Those spells (such as Bless) require a DF, usually requiring one to believe in the deity to function. It wouldn't make sense for a DF to work if you didn't have faith in the deity. Same with the Anti-paladins.
Otherwise...I'm going with Kenderkin on this one. The Sun is big and bright.
I'd still lean towards some form of deity or subdeity since the spells are classified as divine spells. Shallow explanation I'm aware; it's usually my go to in the campaigns I run.
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Sugar. Spice. And Everything Nice.
Along with a healthy dose of Chemical X.
Basically, what is the nature of a Paladin's power?
1-Setting specific. If the writer sez, go with that.
2-Homebrew games are up for grabs. Mine has Orders for each 'sponsoring' deity, complete with their own code, favored weapon, duties and what not. I also have them all under 'Holy Warrior'. Archetypes vary by order with some heavily restricted to certain Orders.
Your game might have each P getting a Domain and benefits based on that Domain.
Fritz might homogenize all divine magic into nebulous concepts.
The only rule I would impose on all is consistency.